'Bushing It' for a Long Time

[jickham]

Hey guys,

Over the past year I have been thinking of how I want to experience at some point in my life going 'Into The Wild' for anywhere between 1.5 - 3 months. I feel this is developing as one of my spiritual goals in life.
NOTE: Not trying to be Rambo, just want to have a pretty view with some peace for a while

There are a few strategies I have as to achieving this safely, and enjoyably.

The First: Get flown / boated in to a wilderness area with a couple months worth of food and gear. Organise a time to be flown back, or be able to walk out within a certain period of time.


The Second: Drive my car to the edge of a wilderness area, leave several months supplies in car. Walk for extended period of time, return, and resupply. I think this second one would be fantastic in a place like New Zealand or even Tasmania (or the outback), however, in terms of to what degree do I want to be secluded, it is probably not as intense as the first.

I would like your thoughts on those ideas or if anyone has had any similar feelings / experiences.
Areas I have thought of doing this: Tas, NZ, Outback Aus, Scotland. Can't think of more off the top of my head. Trying to avoid places where there are things that can eat you (I have a phobia of animals that can eat you... particularly big ones, just can't get near them)

[LandSailor]

Sounds like a real adventure ....something hard to come by in our safe modern world. Books about this kind of experience is almost a literary genre.
Can suggest a couple Ive read over the last few years (all of them good):-

Indian Creek Chronicles: A Winter Alone in the Wilderness

Call of the Wild: My Escape to Alaska

An Island to Oneself

[wayno]

i wouldnt leave your supplies in the car, thats putting temptation in someones way...
bundle it up in water tight/animal proof containers and stash it out of sight...
scottish weather has to be experienced to be believed when it's stormy, its not enjoyable, and often neither is nz weather.. and i dont think tas weather would be far behind...
in nz it can rain A LOT, some places almost non stop for weeks, and it blows, we're had winds topping 240k's the other day, most of the mountain regions topping 140k's repeatedly over a period of weeks., most of the year its damp and cold in the mountains... its one thing to go bush walking its another if you're camping in those conditions months on end.
whats the longest time you've spent in the bush before? you'd want to spend at least a week or two solid in the bush before trying something like this...
i'd be picking somewhere as dry and as sunny as possible, in nz that usually means not in the bush.
i wouldnt try using a down sleeping bag for that length of time anywhere damp, its unlikely to stand up to the prolonged exposure to the moisture from the air and your body....
you should look at joining moondog on one of his camps, you could learn a thing or two from someone as experienced as him in camping for lengthy periods...

[jickham]

Sounds like a real adventure ....something hard to come by in our safe modern world. Books about this kind of experience is almost a literary genre.
Can suggest a couple Ive read over the last few years (all of them good):-

Indian Creek Chronicles: A Winter Alone in the Wilderness

Call of the Wild: My Escape to Alaska

An Island to Oneself

I have read one or two on people running off to Alaska, Indian Creek Chronicles looks interesting, I'll have a squizz.

Wayno: Longest I have spent is 8 days, but that was the Great Ocean Walk, so not really challenging in terms of the terrain. I've done some Vic High Country walking and walking in Tasmania ( and other bits here and there), but I'm looking to get more experience in all conditions before I really turn it in to a reality. I don't expect the weather to be enjoyable all the time, even for weeks on end, it's those kind of experiences that appeal to me - whilst uncomfortable, difficult, cold and miserable, you'll never look at a sunny day the same way again . I'm a gardener though, so I'm already too damn familiar with good and bad weather

[wayno]

bad weather is a bit different if you're in it for weeks on end with no hot shower at the end of the day... and gear you're struggling to keep dry... as you get tireder the longer your trip goes on.

[wayno]

i'd be reading books like "into the wild" to learn how things can turn to custard, to understand the real risks of what you can be up against.

[jickham]

bad weather is a bit different if you're in it for weeks on end with no hot shower at the end of the day... and gear you're struggling to keep dry... as you get tireder the longer your trip goes on.

Well, I would be prepared as best I can on bad weather every day for extended periods of time. Therefore, from what you're saying, it is very important that I already know what it feels like to walk in exceptionally horrid conditions and how to manage my gear in those conditions?

[wayno]

yes

[wayno]

whatever your sleeping kit is, ie quilt, bag, and or clothes has to be kept as dry as possible, if you are sleeping in clothes and get slack around the campsite wearing them and let them get wet and you have no spare wet clothes then you could have an issue, and you need kit that will cope with prolonged damp conditions, preferably water resistant down or synthetic sleeping kit.
you could be finished walking at the end of the day and change clothes and then setup camp and in the meantime end up letting your clothes get damp or wet.... ideally you put up with the wet clothes till you've done everything you need to outside of your shelter if its wet and only change clothes when you dont need to do much more outside of your shelter. some people take advantage of good weather by arranging wet clothes on the outside of their pack at they walk but you have to be pretty sure they aren't going to get ripped off your pack in scrub at some point.. look up andrew skurka who spends months on end walking in the outdoors and has a similar regime.
dont start your big trip with new or barely tested gear, dont assume it will be right, you need to be using kit you've tried before enough to know yourself it will work on your big trip, same goes with food and hydration...
your food needs to be nutritious and adequate to get you through a long trip, you cant live on two minute noodles for weeks on end. you need to be sure from experience its enough to keep you going, dont just use someone elses menu,, i've seen bushwalkers thrive on food that i half starved on... if some 50 kilo guy is telling you you can survive on half a kilo of food a day and you weigh 100 kilos, just how accurate is their statement going to be for you> if you normally eat large volumes of food , you're not going to miraculuosly turn around and cope on spartan rations in the bush because you dont want to haul the extra weight...
be prepared to fail. its not everyones cup of tea spending weeks alone in the wilderness.... the chances of you failing may be higher than the chances of succeeding , you have to decide how much you're prepared to endure, and whether you need to pull the pin... society seems to applaud people who push on regardless in endeavours like this but they arent the ones enduring the situation... you're not scott of the antarctic with the weight of the british empire riding on his shoulders, so leave it out. eat humble pie and quit if you feel you have to..

[jickham]

yes

What is the longest you have been in the bush for and how did you find it?

[wayno]

two weeks in the southern alps, eight hours a day off track, rough underfood, bush bashing, up and down mountain passes and screes, boulder hoping down rivers, *&%$#! hard. not keen to repeat it.
got tired and tripped in the river at the end damaging my knee, lucky with the weather, almost all sunny, cant imagine what it would have been like if it was bad weather most of the way...

[wayno]

i was pretty over the trip after a week, it had been good up to that point, but a second week of that level of difficulty didnt appeal and it never got any easier.... id had a full on year and it wasnt what the doctor ordered at that time, i needed a holiday to recover...

[Giddy_up]

Hi jickham,

This will be a real adventure as much for the soul as it will be for the gear that you will need. I agree with wayno that leaving the gear in the car is a doubtful option for a whole host or reasons but primarily leaving a car unattended for 3 months is asking for trouble, also agree with the posters that you need to read up on other peoples experiences.

My curiosity is with where you plan to do it, is this an Australian based idea or is the world your oyster when your planning. I seems like this sort of thing is done more in North America and Canada but there are some really remote places here in Oz. Have a look at some of the remote islands that are around Australian waters that are seldom visited. This sort of option would work with your boat in with all your supplies and then set up your camp scenario. It would also grant you that wilderness that you seek without interruption and as you said you could just have a planned extraction deadline.

What to take will be very dependent on where and considerable research will be needed on gear that would be suitable for your destination and it will also depend hugely on the time of year. Winter in some of the southern islands would be very dangerous, but could be done where as "doing" winter in the tropics would be more comfortable. Given that your time line could be out to three months you will not have a chance to propagate food sources and your capacity to supplement from your location would need to be well thought out.

The only non-negotiable for me and I am sure many here, would be the need to have a very resolute plan if something catastrophic occurs. Who and how you seek help, and what your expectations are with regards to rescue. I also assume that you wish too return home after the adventure to tell us all about it. So whilst your purpose is removal from day to day life, you still need to have the capacity to report on your well being at designated times as well as potentially coordinate your rescue if need be. Don't just take a PLB and push the button if your feeling lonely.

Also the sort of destination you seek is like it is for a few reasons, its hard to get to, (if your in trouble it may be days or weeks until help can arrive), its climate is not suitable for habitation or it may not have sufficient essentials such as water for extended stay.

Here is something that I would love to do.

My dream destination is here, http://www.heardisland.aq
I would love to go here in summer for 3 weeks or so, and "drop out, embrace all that it is and endure" and then come home.

Good Luck with it all, can't wait for the trip report.

G_U

[perfectlydark]

Yeah I got nothing to add other than best of luck its a dream I share but unlikely to happen for a multitude of reasons. Good luck!

[mtrain]

Great idea. Ive lived in tents in national parks for twelve months at a time and it shaped who I am. Nothing better than getting back to some sort of connection with the natural environment we evolved in. Walking in the desert areas allows use of a cart which enables carrying months worth of food or water. Even if you don't flog yourself trying to cover vast distances it still gives you a bit more range. Believe it or not if you bring in all your food you will need some project like document seasonal change or some such to occupy yourself with as you are not hunter gathering.

[Moondog55]

Good luck with the project.
Couple of questions regarding your preparation tho, and it adds to Waynos post. Do you REALLY understand how much food and equipment you need for an extended period if you are not actively hunting for meat?
There is a reason most of the books on the subject are written from a North American perspective, there are parts of NA where firearms ownership and hunting rights are unrestricted or minimally restricted and where meat animals are relatively common still.
After week 3 comfort space starts to become more important ( longest I have done personally is 11 weeks above the snowline walking skiing and camping) and every 3 weeks or so my partner and I simply had to come down for a shower, a decent feed and a night in a real bed.
I would find this easier to do if I was traveling somewhere, a start and a definite end point, like walking from South to North along the Great divide.
Staying in one place I would need a cabin, with storage space. cooking space. sleeping space and somewhere to work on gear. For me this is somewhat bigger than a sleep-out [ Sleepouts are exempt building under the BCA and less than 10m>2 ie: 2700mm X 3400mm internal ] and you need to think about the tools needed to do the job. Hand tools to do this sort of construction are expensive and getting rarer as demand drops. power tools will require large quantities of fuel {or a very very long extension lead; as my dad said when I asked to borrow his chain saw} these are all the things I have thought about when planning my own escape into the wilderness before meeting and marrying Cecile.
At a minimum plan on a half kilo of concentrated foodstuff PLUS a kilo of unprocessed food stuff per day, to be absolutely on the safe side. Then fuel, if using wood then you will need a chainsaw plus bow-saw and axe and a block splitter otherwise a safe allowance would be ~ 200ml per day of kerosene if using only for cooking, double it if using a Tilly lamp at night.
This amount of gear will not fit into a car, it needs a small truck and a trailer.

This is of course written from my own personal perspective of liking my comforts.
Old timers who worked in the bush always had 3 complete sets of gear, one wearing, one waiting , one drying, it's still good advice. Minimum tent for drovers was often a tall canvas wall tent about 10 X 12 feet plus a huge extension fly sheet giving an undercover shaded area about the same again
These same drovers also sometimes had a proper wood burning stove and oven mounted on the horse-drawn cart that carried the 3 months supplies needed for a trip

[jickham]

Couple of questions regarding your preparation tho, and it adds to Waynos post. Do you REALLY understand how much food and equipment you need for an extended period if you are not actively hunting for meat?

No I don't really understand how much food and equipment I need. But I'm sure I could calculate some rough figures to ensure that I would have enough, and I wouldn't even attempt it unless I was completely prepared. It could be that I just end up hiring a car and going from one hike to the next. But the idea of having a base camp in the middle of a wilderness area, and exploring, and living in the environment surrounding that area really appeals to me. I think it would be important to always have an exit strategy that I am able to pull off myself - not just activating the PLB. So perhaps a satellite phone if I was on an Island, or ensure it is possible (and safe) to walk out of the area back to civilization.

My goal isn't so much a test of physical ability, but more so a test of emotional and spiritual endurance. I'm not doing this to learn how to survive off the land, whilst that is an incredible skill to have, I feel it entails far more risk than I am willing to take. I think it'd be great to get helicoptered in with some supplies and gear, live in a place or area for a month or two, and get flown out. And if they have to do a second drop, then just save some money and get the helicopter fellas to do another drop. I am aware of risks of being so isolated, although I am only as aware of them as someone who has never experienced them. I am more than happy to learn from others mistakes from staying in the wild for extended periods - such as exposure, starvation, etc. Those mistakes I do not intend to make . Famous last words

[Onestepmore]

An interesting novel to read is 'The Other' by David Guterson
(He wrote Snow Falling on Cedars, Our Lady of the Forest and other beautifully atmospheric books)

It features a young hermit near Seattle

[icefest]

You could always build you own hut in the tasmanian wilderness, complete with stone bench for bench pressing. If you were entirely by yourself you could even call it the solitary mans hut. I've heard WoJ is pretty good for such an endeavour.

[Happy Pirate]

Hey guys,
Over the past year I have been thinking of how I want to experience at some point in my life going 'Into The Wild' for anywhere between 1.5 - 3 months. I feel this is developing as one of my spiritual goals in life.
NOTE: Not trying to be Rambo, just want to have a pretty view with some peace for a while
There are a few strategies I have as to achieving this safely, and enjoyably.
The First: Get flown / boated in to a wilderness area with a couple months worth of food and gear. Organise a time to be flown back, or be able to walk out within a certain period of time.
The Second: Drive my car to the edge of a wilderness area, leave several months supplies in car. Walk for extended period of time, return, and resupply. I think this second one would be fantastic in a place like New Zealand or even Tasmania (or the outback), however, in terms of to what degree do I want to be secluded, it is probably not as intense as the first.
I would like your thoughts on those ideas or if anyone has had any similar feelings / experiences.
Areas I have thought of doing this: Tas, NZ, Outback Aus, Scotland. Can't think of more off the top of my head. Trying to avoid places where there are things that can eat you (I have a phobia of animals that can eat you... particularly big ones, just can't get near them)

Hi jickham
Nice topic,
I assume you know of the Australian Geographic couples who spent 'a year in the wilderness'?
There are a couple of good books and several articles in AG about.
The reference to Chris McCandles on this forum and as a book is also relevant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_%28book%29

I'm curious though as to how flying in your entire provision supply in to a comfy spot and thus isolating from your surrounds (in a non-visual sense) can help in "developing as one of my spiritual goals in life". (I think this has been argued already).
Don't sound like a bad holiday but I'd see that as a different thing to a 'spiritual goal'. I would argue (I always argue ) that a spiritual goal needs to challenge you to your core. When Jesus spent 40 days in the desert he didn't have a food drop. (Nor did he retreat at night to a luxury massage acupuncture spa and yoga crystal meditation resort )
My idea of spiritual growth is the subversion or destruction of ego (and entrenched behavior patterns) through either monotonous mental activity that can distract higher-level typical mental processes or long-term shocking situations that still demand conscious reflection. We bandy about terms with little definition so excuse me if you feel I'm being aggressive. I spent 10 days in a silent 16 hours/day x-legged meditation retreat (actually I've done 3 of them ) so maybe I think of a spiritual pursuit in different terms.
The argument has also been in some ways carried on here: http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13549

But maybe if your spiritual experience doesn't entail a living off the land challenge you could try a 'soft' attempt first by trying a Vipassana meditation retreat? 10 days shouldn't be so hard compared to 3 months?
http://www.dhamma.org.au/
It's not just a test of your reaction to isolation from external stimuli and intense reflection but gives you some good tools for further ventures into the far side of isolation.

Besides I'm probably just envious because its been about 5 years since I took more than a month off to spend in the bush
good luck and let us know all about it!
Steve

[Happy Pirate]

Hey guys,

Over the past year I have been thinking of how I want to experience at some point in my life going 'Into The Wild' for anywhere between 1.5 - 3 months. I feel this is developing as one of my spiritual goals in life.
NOTE: Not trying to be Rambo, just want to have a pretty view with some peace for a while

There are a few strategies I have as to achieving this safely, and enjoyably.

The First: Get flown / boated in to a wilderness area with a couple months worth of food and gear. Organise a time to be flown back, or be able to walk out within a certain period of time.


The Second: Drive my car to the edge of a wilderness area, leave several months supplies in car. Walk for extended period of time, return, and resupply. I think this second one would be fantastic in a place like New Zealand or even Tasmania (or the outback), however, in terms of to what degree do I want to be secluded, it is probably not as intense as the first.

I would like your thoughts on those ideas or if anyone has had any similar feelings / experiences.
Areas I have thought of doing this: Tas, NZ, Outback Aus, Scotland. Can't think of more off the top of my head. Trying to avoid places where there are things that can eat you (I have a phobia of animals that can eat you... particularly big ones, just can't get near them)

JI
P.S. I once got trapped in my tent in the Alps for two days due to bad weather (decades ago). I also left my book behind.
I spent 2 days reading the ingredients labels of all my food packets and then towards the end started making up stories and songs about them.
Wasn't as pretty as it sounds... I was close to hysteria.
Isolation can be harder than you expect.
Make sure you plan for it....
Steve

[peter-robinson]

Ed Wardle said the hardest thing was loneliness when he made Alone In The Wild - I think he cut his trip short because he just missed people so much.
http://youtu.be/oyoWSLHqLBQ

I look forward to the trip report when you return - I would love to try it sometime

[jickham]

You could always build you own hut in the tasmanian wilderness, complete with stone bench for bench pressing. If you were entirely by yourself you could even call it the solitary mans hut. I've heard WoJ is pretty good for such an endeavour.

I do have John Wisemans: 'SAS Survival Guide,' and One Man's Wilderness. Maybe if I combine the both I could use the tiny saw on my Leatherman to make a Hut. I'll try it in my one bedroom apartment first .

[jickham]

Hi jickham
Nice topic,
I assume you know of the Australian Geographic couples who spent 'a year in the wilderness'?
There are a couple of good books and several articles in AG about.

This couple I am unfamiliar with. Who are they?

The reference to Chris McCandles on this forum and as a book is also relevant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Into_the_Wild_%28book%29

Given that I have only seen the movie and not read the book, I am not interested in taking his approach to searching for isolation from society.

I'm curious though as to how flying in your entire provision supply in to a comfy spot and thus isolating from your surrounds (in a non-visual sense) can help in "developing as one of my spiritual goals in life". (I think this has been argued already).
Don't sound like a bad holiday but I'd see that as a different thing to a 'spiritual goal'. I would argue (I always argue ) that a spiritual goal needs to challenge you to your core. When Jesus spent 40 days in the desert he didn't have a food drop. (Nor did he retreat at night to a luxury massage acupuncture spa and yoga crystal meditation resort )
My idea of spiritual growth is the subversion or destruction of ego (and entrenched behavior patterns) through either monotonous mental activity that can distract higher-level typical mental processes or long-term shocking situations that still demand conscious reflection.

I don't see why I should be uncomfortable or put myself at my limits. I feel I am after silence and isolation - at the very least to experience it. Our ideas on spiritual growth are similar. I like the idea of telling my ego to shut up in a place where it doesn't have a lot material to be hanging about. My ego doesn't say much when it sees a nice tree...

We bandy about terms with little definition so excuse me if you feel I'm being aggressive. I spent 10 days in a silent 16 hours/day x-legged meditation retreat (actually I've done 3 of them ) so maybe I think of a spiritual pursuit in different terms.
The argument has also been in some ways carried on here: http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13549

We do bandy about terms with little definition... I don't feel you're being aggressive . I hear x-legged meditation can be excruciating...?

But maybe if your spiritual experience doesn't entail a living off the land challenge you could try a 'soft' attempt first by trying a Vipassana meditation retreat? 10 days shouldn't be so hard compared to 3 months?
http://www.dhamma.org.au/
It's not just a test of your reaction to isolation from external stimuli and intense reflection but gives you some good tools for further ventures into the far side of isolation.

I already do meditate and it is fantastic. However, a meditation retreat does not appeal to me. I'd rather go hiking

Besides I'm probably just envious because its been about 5 years since I took more than a month off to spend in the bush
good luck and let us know all about it!
Steve

I don't know when but I'll be sure to keep an accurate diary during my experience.

[jickham]

Ed Wardle said the hardest thing was loneliness when he made Alone In The Wild - I think he cut his trip short because he just missed people so much.
http://youtu.be/oyoWSLHqLBQ

I look forward to the trip report when you return - I would love to try it sometime

Multiple personality disorder would fix this

[perfectlydark]

Or a general loathing of people

[Moondog55]

Or a general loathing of people

We are social beings, even people who loathe other people need them to loathe at.
Isolation and loneliness are the two greatest things to battle and why "cabin fever" is such a real thing.
I like my own company but find 2->3 weeks is enough, although that could be moderated by having a definite goal and plan; such as my suggested walk from here to there

[Leiothrix]

Isolation and loneliness are the two greatest things to battle and why "cabin fever" is such a real thing.

You don't need isolation to be lonely. People can actually make it worse.

Introverts FTW

[Moondog55]

Isolation and loneliness are the two greatest things to battle and why "cabin fever" is such a real thing.

You don't need isolation to be lonely. People can actually make it worse.

Introverts FTW

Hence the ancient punishment of "Shunning" Having been isolated on the odd occasional i would disagree tho, loneliness and isolation are not the same thing

[perfectlydark]

True.
I agree for the vast majority of people they need other human contact othwerwise craziness sets in, but there is a minority that seeks and thrives on isolation, many historical examples.
also cabin fever I think is a little different as its a lack of stimulation. If you were on the move most of the time this shouldnt be much of an issue, or if you can at least go for a walk