selecting trip members, yes or no?

[wayno]

i just got kicked off a planned trip, so it got me thinking about selecting trip memebers and how you go about it
sholdnt surprise me i got kicked off, the trip leader doesnt know me that well. i'm the biggest unknown in the group for him. and due to the harder conditions than expected they are going to encounter, he wanted a small fast group and wanted to cut out the unkown.
but I know i'd have no problem keeping up.
is that how you decide who is on or off teh trips you plan>?
personally I"d ask a few questions or ask around anyone you know who knows that person about their ability before just arbitrarily cutting them out with no discussion... especially if i've been the one to invite them on the trip..
in this scenario a friend of one of the trip goers could personally vouch for my fitness and experience. and i've got photos toback up the trips ov'e been on of similar difficulty in recent years.
Sure ultimately the decision lies with the trip leader and they have the last say, but some tact and a bit of effort in reearching the group members can be a less harsh process than just arbitrarily saying, you're off the trip, end of discusson...

[GPSGuided]

Sounds rather complicated. No point in forcing the issue on these social issues.

[perfectlydark]

Short answer is yes its *&^%$#!. Poor "leadership". But what can you do? As gps said, cant force the issue so I guess its one of those "take it on the chin" moments

[GPSGuided]

Well, I don't think there needs to be a "take it on the chin" moment but knowing with whom you won't want to go on future trips.

[matagi]

I'm with the trip leader.

If I was doing a difficult trip, there is no way I would be taking along somebody I had never walked with before. There is more at work than simple fitness. There is also the group dynamic and how a stranger would fit in, particularly if/when the going gets rough. If these guys all know each other and have walked together before, then they will all know each others strengths and weaknesses and have ways of doing things (including non-verbal communication) which a newcomer may not fit in with.

[Mark F]

Do the trip solo and make sure you are at the top of every pass and peak before them.

[wayno]

Do the trip solo and make sure you are at the top of every pass and peak before them.

I like your style Mark

[wayno]

I'm with the trip leader.

If I was doing a difficult trip, there is no way I would be taking along somebody I had never walked with before. There is more at work than simple fitness. There is also the group dynamic and how a stranger would fit in, particularly if/when the going gets rough. If these guys all know each other and have walked together before, then they will all know each others strengths and weaknesses and have ways of doing things (including non-verbal communication) which a newcomer may not fit in with.

i dont disagree with you, question is why be so quick to invite a person along in the first place in this scenario. trip leaders need to think things through more before arbitrarily including then excluding people on a whim...

[matagi]

Do the trip solo and make sure you are at the top of every pass and peak before them.

With table and chair set up, enjoying a full silver service meal.

[matagi]

I'm with the trip leader.

If I was doing a difficult trip, there is no way I would be taking along somebody I had never walked with before. There is more at work than simple fitness. There is also the group dynamic and how a stranger would fit in, particularly if/when the going gets rough. If these guys all know each other and have walked together before, then they will all know each others strengths and weaknesses and have ways of doing things (including non-verbal communication) which a newcomer may not fit in with.

i dont disagree with you, question is why be so quick to invite a person along in the first place in this scenario. trip leaders need to think things through more before arbitrarily including then excluding people on a whim...

True, there has been a lack of basic courtesy and, it would seem, lack of basic communication.

If indeed, inclusion and exclusion has been on a whim, then I would be reluctant to walk with someone who operates in that fashion.

[Strider]

Just be glad you don't work for this bloke.

[wayno]

I"m starting to think I'm glad i dont climb mountains with him

[ULWalkingPhil]

Use a similar dry baking kit as i use and Bake a nice cake or scone and sit there munching away on dessert as they arrive and setup camp. They will regret there decision.

[wayno]

Use a similar dry baking kit as i use and Bake a nice cake or scone and sit there munching away on dessert as they arrive and setup camp. They will regret there decision.

ah yes good old revenge baking

[GPSGuided]

So Wayno, what's this special trip that got you a bit upset? Where were you going?

[wayno]

one fact i may need to announce is i was asked to join teh trip months ago. and only shortly before teh trip was due to go was i cut out of it.. in the meantime i've been exercising more to get fit for the trip.
so any trip leader who wants to change their mind about a member, its more considerate if you dont leave a decision like this for months and have someone waste their time prepping for a trip for some time that you could cut them out of.
it wouldnt have been such an issue if the decision had been taken earlier.

[wayno]

summiting ruapehu.. it's not a major, I can do my own trip or make my own groupp, but the scenario of being cut out of a trip i thought was one worth discussing.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, getting the rejection at the 11th hour is not nice, especially one that's unrelated to fitness.

[wayno]

[22F]

Seems a bit... odd, to me mate.
I can understand keeping the small group dynamic, but as you mentioned, the 11th hour "The Tribe Has Spoken" approach seems a wee bit odd.

I'd be glad not to be travelling with such people, to be quite honest.

[wayno]

one of the guys on the trip is in a club i used to be in, i had a couple of disagreements with a couple of the committee members, so he may have been doing some reference checks...

[perfectlydark]

Maybe he diagrees with your views on One Square Meal and is hoping to avoid arguments

[wayno]

such a shame i was preparing my one square meal speech for him especially...

[matagi]

Wayno, did you go on any preparatory walks with this group?

See, that's what I would do if I was getting ready to do a "major" trip, particularly if there was someone I didn't know who was interested in coming along. I would arrange a few short walks/overnighters so I could suss out the other person, check out their gear, work out whether I could tolerate their views on "One Square Meal" , etc. The time to have your doubts about whether someone is suitable for your trip is not in the carpark as you're about to head up the hill.

For a trip which is several months in the planning there is ample time to do a bit of prior assessment.

[wayno]

it wasnt several months in the planning, i was offered the trip several months ago. its just a day climb, i can tolerate just about anyone on a trip that short.. these guys arent rookies, seemed good enough to me, the organiser may think in retrospect it was a bit too spur of the moment, hes not in the country much and the group is from all around the island...

[GPSGuided]

So, how tough is that summit climb? I understand it's a long day climb. Why not organize a few of your buddies and do it together? Is there real value to join this other lot?

[wayno]

yeah i can sort out something else easily enough, it was as much a post about how to and how not to go about slecting rejecting trip members.
it's just a steep walk, needs crampons and ice axe in winter and spring, just beware of the weather and know how to navigate if you end up in low visibility.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, can see it's not a climb for the noobs and will require some preparations. Sounds like those guys are going overboard and not being considerate. Give them the flick and find better.

[wayno]

summer gets your normal array of people going up in jeans, t shirt and not much else.. the chair lift will take them to over 2000m

[Tortoise]

Selecting - yes, for what can be a challenging walk - basic risk management IMO.
Selecting in that manner - No!