Stop injuries and deaths on the Overland Track

[MickyB]

where is that one?

Windy Ridge Hut on the Overland Track

[geoskid]

You'd also have to station someone over at the emergency use hut in case the sneaky buggers try to by-pass checkpoint charlie and slip down the back lane past Scott-Kilvert.

There's shades of Frank And Nikki from the Betta Milk Protection Squad coming to mind.

[tastrax]

I like your thinking geoskid - maybe we need a "Lone Ranger" and his trusty sidekick Tonto

[GPSGuided]

I can just hear that Lone Ranger theme song...

[wayno]

on the surface it may look like a good idea to assign a person to vet people on the track, but when you see what the costs are for hiring another staff member, is the money there for it? and where will the money come from... maintenance often soaks up the majority of the budget on walks where the track and huts are heavily maintained. but well maintained and advertised tracks are magnets for large no's of people, and by virtue of no's alone you increase the likelihood of attracting ill prepared people and you dont have the resources available to vet those people out... is that any different to the situation of people driving on the roads? despite an extremely expensive police force and licencing system for drivers you're never going to stop large no's of injuries and deaths on the road... as sad as it is when people die, its a dangerous world and large no's of people die despite the best intentions of authorities...
possibly its to do with teh dumbing down of society,, all the political correctness that goes on now of sheltering children from dangerous situations , stopping them from doing anything where they might get hurt, so they grow up having learnt little about risk management and assessing situations on their own for their danger, stopped from playing in a way where theres a risk of getting hurt, they grow up ignorant of weighing up the risks around them because they grew up in a constantly safe environment...
its too late to try and stop the flood of grown up people going about the world who can't assess risk correctly. assessing risk in the outdoors isnt rocket science, but you have to have developed the common sense in teh first place to assess that risk... i grew up left to do what i wanted, run free, climb trees, fall out of trees, get into fights, no one drove me the two kilometres to school every day, i walked it in most weathers and i worked out to watch out for bad weather, and take extra clothes for bad weather.. how many people stepping onto tracks today have spent their lives moving around on public transport or private motor vehicle especially when the weathers bad? how much experience do they have of being exposed to the elements for any length of time? when i was a kid sometimes ii'd come home with numb limbs and face from the cold and wet. those shorter trips in the elements taught me what the weather could do,,, i knew i had to be careful on longer trips but to a lot of people it just doesnt occur to them these days.
i learnt when i was young the importance of making sure your wet weather clothes were really waterproof after freezing on relatively short trips outside in gear that wasnt as waterproof as it made out...
i see it all the time on tramping club trips. foreigners turning up in street wear, the club members save them a lot of suffering or even death by stopping them from going on the trips or lending them better gear.
they dont have a clue what their up against. because someone else has always cushioned them from the risk, vetting the risks just don't enter into their heads especially if other people are around, they just automatically go into auto pilot mode and drift along, but of course when the weather turns bad thats when thinking for yourself really counts...

[stry]

"When someone dies, the system is failing"

You can't be serious Daz. Does this also apply to pedestrians who walk under cars and trains with their earphones on and their eyes glued to their smartphones, greedy unthinking financial speculators who get burnt looking a quick dollar, people who drive cars with the canvas showing on bald tyres, and many others ??.

Continue the trend in society to look for a scapegoat to take responsibility for the consequences of every individuals' bad decision (substitute stupidity for bad decision if you like), preferably a tax payer funded scapegoat ??????

To completely insulate any living creature from the natural consequences of their own decisions and actions is a sure way to stifle learning and arrest development of the all important ability to adapt.

Your concern is commendable but you really need to take a step back from defending your opinion and have a better think about the topic. Cogitate upon a few key words and phrases such as personal responsibility, negligence, natural consequences, evolution. A bloke called Darwin had a few thoughts on some of this that you may care to check out.

[dazintaz]

Whos going to pay????????? The same people who paid to upkeep the overland track BEFORE a fee was introduced! Gees louise!

[dazintaz]

"When someone dies, the system is failing"

You can't be serious Daz. Does this also apply to pedestrians who walk under cars and trains with their earphones on and their eyes glued to their smartphones, greedy unthinking financial speculators who get burnt looking a quick dollar, people who drive cars with the canvas showing on bald tyres, and many others ??.

Continue the trend in society to look for a scapegoat to take responsibility for the consequences of every individuals' bad decision (substitute stupidity for bad decision if you like), preferably a tax payer funded scapegoat ??????

To completely insulate any living creature from the natural consequences of their own decisions and actions is a sure way to stifle learning and arrest development of the all important ability to adapt.

Your concern is commendable but you really need to take a step back from defending your opinion and have a better think about the topic. Cogitate upon a few key words and phrases such as personal responsibility, negligence, natural consequences, evolution. A bloke called Darwin had a few thoughts on some of this that you may care to check out.

Could you interpret some of those words for me please? You're quite the wordsmith! Once again, another one with nothing positive to say.

[dazintaz]

on the surface it may look like a good idea to assign a person to vet people on the track, but when you see what the costs are for hiring another staff member, is the money there for it? and where will the money come from... maintenance often soaks up the majority of the budget on walks where the track and huts are heavily maintained. but well maintained and advertised tracks are magnets for large no's of people, and by virtue of no's alone you increase the likelihood of attracting ill prepared people and you dont have the resources available to vet those people out... is that any different to the situation of people driving on the roads? despite an extremely expensive police force and licencing system for drivers you're never going to stop large no's of injuries and deaths on the road... as sad as it is when people die, its a dangerous world and large no's of people die despite the best intentions of authorities...
possibly its to do with teh dumbing down of society,, all the political correctness that goes on now of sheltering children from dangerous situations , stopping them from doing anything where they might get hurt, so they grow up having learnt little about risk management and assessing situations on their own for their danger, stopped from playing in a way where theres a risk of getting hurt, they grow up ignorant of weighing up the risks around them because they grew up in a constantly safe environment...
its too late to try and stop the flood of grown up people going about the world who can't assess risk correctly. assessing risk in the outdoors isnt rocket science, but you have to have developed the common sense in teh first place to assess that risk... i grew up left to do what i wanted, run free, climb trees, fall out of trees, get into fights, no one drove me the two kilometres to school every day, i walked it in most weathers and i worked out to watch out for bad weather, and take extra clothes for bad weather.. how many people stepping onto tracks today have spent their lives moving around on public transport or private motor vehicle especially when the weathers bad? how much experience do they have of being exposed to the elements for any length of time? when i was a kid sometimes ii'd come home with numb limbs and face from the cold and wet. those shorter trips in the elements taught me what the weather could do,,, i knew i had to be careful on longer trips but to a lot of people it just doesnt occur to them these days.
i learnt when i was young the importance of making sure your wet weather clothes were really waterproof after freezing on relatively short trips outside in gear that wasnt as waterproof as it made out...
i see it all the time on tramping club trips. foreigners turning up in street wear, the club members save them a lot of suffering or even death by stopping them from going on the trips or lending them better gear.
they dont have a clue what their up against. because someone else has always cushioned them from the risk, vetting the risks just don't enter into their heads especially if other people are around, they just automatically go into auto pilot mode and drift along, but of course when the weather turns bad thats when thinking for yourself really counts...

Some great points Wayno, nice to read your comments!!!

[dazintaz]

You'd also have to station someone over at the emergency use hut in case the sneaky buggers try to by-pass checkpoint charlie and slip down the back lane past Scott-Kilvert.

There's shades of Frank And Nikki from the Betta Milk Protection Squad coming to mind.

hahahahaha i can visualise this!

[dazintaz]

"When someone dies, the system is failing"

You can't be serious Daz. Does this also apply to pedestrians who walk under cars and trains with their earphones on and their eyes glued to their smartphones, greedy unthinking financial speculators who get burnt looking a quick dollar, people who drive cars with the canvas showing on bald tyres, and many others ??.

Continue the trend in society to look for a scapegoat to take responsibility for the consequences of every individuals' bad decision (substitute stupidity for bad decision if you like), preferably a tax payer funded scapegoat ??????

To completely insulate any living creature from the natural consequences of their own decisions and actions is a sure way to stifle learning and arrest development of the all important ability to adapt.

Your concern is commendable but you really need to take a step back from defending your opinion and have a better think about the topic. Cogitate upon a few key words and phrases such as personal responsibility, negligence, natural consequences, evolution. A bloke called Darwin had a few thoughts on some of this that you may care to check out.

Whos going to pay????????? The same people who paid to upkeep the overland track BEFORE a fee was introduced! Gees louise!

[dazintaz]

Let's just do it properly and put a nice and big hut up for masses. Right on the cirque to overlook the entire valley.

Why not!! great idea. How good would that be?

[Scottyk]

We could have a discussion about any track around the state or the country. Stop injures and deaths on the "insert popular track here"
So really if you can't do a bit of research on the kind of weather and terrain then you might be up there into natural selection area of death.
Just google "overland track weather" and see what you get.
The fact that people pay for this track makes them think that they have a right to a safe experience? It is wilderness and that's the whole idea if you can't understand that then you shouldn't be out there
I think PWS does enough with web pages like this http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/indeX.aspX?base=7827 or maybe a simple youtube search like this http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... track&sm=3
I say no more shelters/hut, definitely no full time gear checker or what ever you want to call them, it is a remote walk end of story

[Scottyk]

Let's just do it properly and put a nice and big hut up for masses. Right on the cirque to overlook the entire valley.

Why not!! great idea. How good would that be?

How good would that be??
Why not have one at every lunch stop, then maybe one for every area that is exposed about 1000m?? maybe one on the top of Ossa so if anyone gets in trouble there too.
Sorry for my sarcasm but I disagree

[GPSGuided]

How good would that be??
Why not have one at every lunch stop, then maybe one for every area that is exposed about 1000m?? maybe one on the top of Ossa so if anyone gets in trouble there too.
Sorry for my sarcasm but I disagree

Gosh, don't stop there! Maybe far cheaper to issue mountain radio/PLBs to every walker and have a fleet of rescue helicopters and teams of rescue personnel on standby at all times. Guaranteed 2 hour response time.

[Strider]

Not good enough guys. I want a ranger to hold my hand every step of my way and to rub my feet at the end of each day

[GPSGuided]

Not good enough guys. I want a ranger to hold my hand every step of my way and to rub my feet at the end of each day

I am happy for a ranger to be unobtrusively following my trail 50m behind and within calling distance.

[Nuts]

15 years ago the walk was free and wonderful without the whordes of people

15yrs ago there were more people on the OLT than there are now.. and they were less organised.

15 years ago the walk was free and wonderful without the whordes of people, thanks to the Tas govt this place is bursting at the seams and full of visitors from all over the world

I'm sure some would love to hear that but I'm also not sure how much the Tas government contribute to getting tourists here. It's easy to find out, how many here walk in Tassie coz of a Tas media campaign?

How many are choppered out every year because they are wearing the wrong footing or denim wear?

Poor gear probably claims a few, i'd say the answer would be - not very many.

It's interesting to read comments on the current stop-gap system. Maybe there have been subtle changes. Here is the appropriate paragraph from a private walker confirmation received a few weeks ago:

Screen Shot 2014-02-27 at 10.11.57 PM.png (20.42 KiB) Viewed 21076 times

So maybe a time is given elsewhere, it doesnt appear on the info needed before arriving in Tas (it seems)- vagued down from giving a time? Too hard to administer even that? To hard to find the staff willing to do so? Determined as 'parks' taking their role too far?

I actually like the idea of some sort of useful shelter up there. I doubt any extension of Kitchen Hut would be palatable and not that well positioned, perhaps down towards Suttons Tarn. Even if just a roof, It would need to be manned and big enough to shelter many more than any other hut on the track (everyone ends up in the hut in bad weather). It would also likely make WFV redundant.

Personally I think the idea of slowing people down (in what might be their intro to overnight walking) would be a good start. Iv'e heard the notion bandied about of starting the OLT at the Visitor Centre, first night at Waldheim. That or just a compulsory first night at Waldheim...

Anyhow, good to see you having a go Daz, we are talking about some of the least experienced walkers so any input is relevant to managing them I reckon (And yes, the responsible staff do visit here.. so it's not entirely wasted having such discussions).

[MickyB]

Anyhow, good to see you having a go Daz, we are talking about some of the least experienced walkers so any input is relevant to managing them I reckon

Totally agree Nuts. I don't necessarily agree with dazintaz's suggestion about having another hut but at least he is concerned about the welfare of the inexperienced walkers who complete the OLT.

Maybe a few more signs similar to wayno's photo at the visitors centre and on the website might help (sorry, can't remember if there is anything like that at the start).

[wander]

Why do we need to protect people from themselves?

The whole concept of safinating a bush track is very strange.

[MickyB]

safinating

Do you mean salinating?

The whole concept of safinating a bush track is very strange.

I agree with this for nearly every track except the OLT. It's world famous and people come from all over the world to experience it. However a majority of the people who do it are inexperienced at multi day walks and don't know what to expect (especially Tassie's weather). I think a few more warning signs and info on the website may help. Inexpensive and if it saves one life it would be worth it.

[forest]

I'm just thinking aloud but a hut would be a bit overkill wouldn't it. I mean sure people can get injured and killed up there but how much of that irresponsibility is placed back on them for going in the first place without being equipped. Couldn't there just be some type of lean to style 2 walled shelter built. I'm unsure if the wind direction is predicable up there or not so it might be totally useless. Might just be enough for people to get some time mildly out of the bad weather, re-assess what they are in for and go from there. Put a wizz bang hut up there, so close to the car parks and main daywalk area and it would be an even bigger drawcard for the underprepared. After all if things go bad with the weather we know there's a nice warm hut just up there and we will be safe. The implications of an extra security buffer (ie; possible hut) sometimes make risks higher as people become even more complacent.

All I know from an interstater's / tourists point of view is that Craddle Mnt is a massive "on the to do list" thing for a trip down there. I had a huge discussion with my sister in law only last year. She has climbing Craddle Mnt on her bucket list (She's not a bushwalker). Even to the point she had all but booked flights and my brother in law knows I've been up there and thought to ask some advise. I gave them a good list of things they would have to take even on a day trip as the weather can turn quickly, especially alpine. Last question I had was when are you going.....2 weeks time he told me, that was in August..... Um I quickly told him it ain't happening unless he's into alpine ice climbing etc.

It will not matter what information, signage and legislation is in place. People are stuborn and do stupid things.

[tastrax]

I am hoping the Three Capes Track will be marketed to less experienced walkers as the first walk they should do in Tasmania, then they can progress to things like the Overland Track

[wayno]

something like a three and a half sided shelter might be an idea to keep out the worst of the wind and keep the rain off but dont make it warm and cosy to encourage people to stay longer than is essential..

[Nuts]

You just need a fridge and industrial fan at the VC. Throw them in with the kit they are taking and see how they cope
I'd imagine that the Tasman walk will be a lot easier to staff and maintain (and 'safinate')

forest (i agree) re the shelter though, i'd imagine they would have to plan on it getting overnight use.. putting emergency use signs around is fine but then they may have the reverse effect for the people most in need...

[wayno]

experiencing the cold wind getting out of the car at cradle valley carpark was intimidating enough for me last feb...

[GPSGuided]

I know what happens to those emergency shelters - People go their to do their private business. Not going to be pleasant but may still save lives in an emergency. Question is, how many are needed? Will those in need know to access them before it's too late?.

[wander]

"safinating", to make safer, to make less unsafe but to an extreme.

[wayno]

shelters at road ends tend to be the ones that people might end up doing their private business in,, cant think of any shelters i've come across that are a couple of hours walk into the bush where i've seen that problem... graffitti is usually the main issue

[Strider]

I am hoping the Three Capes Track will be marketed to less experienced walkers as the first walk they should do in Tasmania, then they can progress to things like the Overland Track

Good point.

Perhaps they should airlift the existing OLT huts and relocate them on the Three Capes. That way we both save money on building new huts down there, as well as making a really good effort toward discouraging unprepared OLT walkers