Timber industry the ultimate conservationists

[GPSGuided]

Finally understood the context of Abbott's speech. It's all for the Tasmanian state election. Yes, any price for that few extra votes. That's all.

[Clusterpod]

Finally understood the context of Abbott's speech. It's all for the Tasmanian state election. Yes, any price for that few extra votes. That's all.

Yup. Anything to stir up anti-green (little g) sentiment, garnering support for the removal of green-tape, and the marginalisation of green concerns. I mean the Vic Libs have managed to bring in anti-protest laws. Its amazing.

So, remove protections, and remove the freedom to protest their removals.

Bring in QLD-style laws, and you could find yourself in prison for consorting with protesters, or even people that vocalise dissent.

Quite the totalitarian toe-step they have going on. Bit by bit, piece by piece.

Its got very little to do with forestry.

[Nuts]

Well, those other policy points should only pander to pro-green sentiment

However, yes! of course it is GPS, of course they do, do you really believe anyone else would not have to do this.. would they not want to hold on to power.. ? And I doubt he has been reading from Gammages hefty tome (or that wilderness management plays any role in these elections).. should he? I fully expect that someone in his government has. Not gripping it like a bible (to my mind) but in the interests of full consideration.

Unfortunately wilderness does need management eg.weeds- while i'm not sure management is even possible- poor management by forestry= weeds in disturbed areas and along forest roads. Poor funding and management by parks= weeds in parks and along park roads. The need for this management will only increase.

I'm not sure what shade this is, I would 'lock some up'. If an area doesn't have funding to prevent unnecessary damage- lock it! Yes!-from bushwalkers!

We do have enough national parks! What is needed is further land reserved to encourage the majority to take an ongoing interest in natural settings. More multiple-use areas, whether forestry or recreational (focused) reserve. http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/?base=33041
- especially if we insist on WHA like values for our national parks as well.

[maddog]

Finally understood the context of Abbott's speech. It's all for the Tasmanian state election. Yes, any price for that few extra votes. That's all.

G'day GPS,

Your analysis of the situation is nonsensical. Tasmania just doesn't register in the greater scheme of things. This is part of a wider cultural war. Realise that right wing religious conservatives instinctively distrust environmentalism, which they consider an embryonic form of religion. George Pell fears 'pagan emptiness' and its influence. Michael Crichton, in the essay 'Environmentalism as Religion', puts the case well:

http://www.pe.tamu.edu/DL_Program/gradu ... talism.pdf

John Howard gave us the 'history wars', which focused on the 'black-armband' view of history that had become popular at the time. He sought to balance the education of our children with a patriotic story. This war will be fought over environment issues and the story that surrounds them. At present we commonly see environmental problems as being anthropogenic in nature, the aim is to change this story. The religious right wish us to see only glory in God's creation. Prime Minister Abbott in the forestry speech:

Man and the environment are meant for each other. The last thing we do – the last thing we should want – if we want to genuinely improve our environment is to want to ban men and women from enjoying it, is to ban men and women from making the most of it and that’s what you do. You intelligently make the most of the good things that God has given us.

Now consider the governments record since the 7 September 2013. Initatives include:

1. Axing the Climate Commission.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2u185.html

2. Neglect to appoint a science minister.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/scien ... 6720375674

3. Consult Wikipedia on climate issues.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2w1w5.html

4. Put broom through the department of environment and transfer powers to the states.
http://larissa-waters.greensmps.org.au/ ... l-environm

5. Cut funding for the EDO.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2zj2z.html

6. Announce support for CSG industry.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/mining-a ... 2ufja.html

7. Dredging spoils to dumped on the Great Barrier Reef.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 32xtf.html

8. Threaten to pursue costs against Greenpeace activist arrested in Russia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-07/m ... st/5187238

9. Support the culling of sharks in WA.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 315zk.html

10. Push to de-list World Heritage area in Tasmania.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 31qy6.html

11. Support grazing in national parks:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conse ... 348do.html

Notice a pattern?

Cheers.

[Nuts]

Perhaps GPS means that is all he personally has to offer, not that it's all there is to such statements. The timing would suggest he is otherwise close to the mark?

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Nuts. Nothing as complicated as Maddog suggested. Abbott was addressing the logging industry, an opportunistic spin.

[Nuts]

Yes, well, grander plans to further marginalise the left aside such statements aren't missed, even by about-to-vote Tasmanians!

[Pteropus]

...about-to-vote Tasmanians!

Ah but your election has already been decided...by the devil -> http://www.themercury.com.au/video/id-1 ... NlvDTdiheb

[Clusterpod]

I like Jarvis's run-down better

http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/we ... 14-part-2/

[stepbystep]

11 hrs and counting. Here's to Fast Freddy taking over.

[Nuts]

one more sleep!! I'm so excited!! Iv'e dressed the chooks in superhero capes of various slogans and colours- I'll wake early and give them a fright, a banjo blast should do! The first one outa the coop gets my vote... even if it's the one with the latte moustache!! even if its eggs never do hatch!!

[maddog]

Resist the Green Dragon:

[photohiker]

Resist the Green Dragon:

Brought to you by: The Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation

On December 2, 2009, the Cornwall Alliance issued a statement called "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming", in which they declare,

We believe Earth and its ecosystems – created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence – are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting, admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory. Earth’s climate system is no exception. Recent global warming is one of many natural cycles of warming and cooling in geologic history.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Resist the Green Dragon:

Brought to you by: The Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation

On December 2, 2009, the Cornwall Alliance issued a statement called "An Evangelical Declaration on Global Warming", in which they declare,

We believe Earth and its ecosystems – created by God’s intelligent design and infinite power and sustained by His faithful providence – are robust, resilient, self-regulating, and self-correcting, admirably suited for human flourishing, and displaying His glory. Earth’s climate system is no exception. Recent global warming is one of many natural cycles of warming and cooling in geologic history.

Lol, I needed a laugh this morning, thanks for that!

[Nuts]

I imagine that

Anyhow.. no laughing please, were being green.
and, whatever.. plan b. even the chooks couldn't survive the night.

[Son of a Beach]

I wrung the neck of a broody chook this morning. Hopefully the others can start laying eggs again.

Wait, what was this topic about?

[Clusterpod]

I really enjoyed numbering all my slots and putting *last* the horrible guy whose face has stared in through my window via his huge, horrible sign for the last month.

*opens blinds to view the beautiful dawn* *assaulted by putrid, grinning mug*

*closes blinds*

[walkon]

That guy looking in your window is the 'ultimate conservationist' clusterpod! He's stopping you from going out into the environment and doing any damage.

[geoskid]

Finally understood the context of Abbott's speech. It's all for the Tasmanian state election. Yes, any price for that few extra votes. That's all.

G'day GPS,

Your analysis of the situation is nonsensical. Tasmania just doesn't register in the greater scheme of things. This is part of a wider cultural war. Realise that right wing religious conservatives instinctively distrust environmentalism, which they consider an embryonic form of religion. George Pell fears 'pagan emptiness' and its influence. Michael Crichton, in the essay 'Environmentalism as Religion', puts the case well:

http://www.pe.tamu.edu/DL_Program/gradu ... talism.pdf

John Howard gave us the 'history wars', which focused on the 'black-armband' view of history that had become popular at the time. He sought to balance the education of our children with a patriotic story. This war will be fought over environment issues and the story that surrounds them. At present we commonly see environmental problems as being anthropogenic in nature, the aim is to change this story. The religious right wish us to see only glory in God's creation. Prime Minister Abbott in the forestry speech:

Man and the environment are meant for each other. The last thing we do – the last thing we should want – if we want to genuinely improve our environment is to want to ban men and women from enjoying it, is to ban men and women from making the most of it and that’s what you do. You intelligently make the most of the good things that God has given us.

Now consider the governments record since the 7 September 2013. Initatives include:

1. Axing the Climate Commission.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2u185.html

2. Neglect to appoint a science minister.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/scien ... 6720375674

3. Consult Wikipedia on climate issues.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2w1w5.html

4. Put broom through the department of environment and transfer powers to the states.
http://larissa-waters.greensmps.org.au/ ... l-environm

5. Cut funding for the EDO.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 2zj2z.html

6. Announce support for CSG industry.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/mining-a ... 2ufja.html

7. Dredging spoils to dumped on the Great Barrier Reef.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 32xtf.html

8. Threaten to pursue costs against Greenpeace activist arrested in Russia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-07/m ... st/5187238

9. Support the culling of sharks in WA.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 315zk.html

10. Push to de-list World Heritage area in Tasmania.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... 31qy6.html

11. Support grazing in national parks:
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/conse ... 348do.html

Notice a pattern?

Cheers.

You don't offer a conclusion of your own Maddog.
What do you think?

[geoskid]

Resist the Green Dragon:

I found this very hard to watch Maddog - in fact I could not make it to the end. I find it difficult to observe people that have demonstrably slipped their moorings to reality. I think it is the biggest challenge facing humanity; learning to get command of our thinking and use it to full capacity. Otherwise we will ultimately be no different to any other species. No different, in effect,
to bacteria in a petri dish. Now that would be a shame.
But what can one do?

[walkon]

[quote=maddog"]Resist the Green Dragon:

[/quote]

Now I've had a second monumental 'What The' of the year...... where to start

Slay the green dragon are the ultimate conservationists on par with the logging industry.
At least the logging industry is understandable in its pursuit of a dollar. Those other zealots have some serious issues, not to mention being unhinged, hypocritical, factually wrong and well dumb. Definitely some other hidden agendas there. Whats worse is that there are somethat will swallow that diatribe as 'Gospel'.

Maddog, got to admit I've been perplexed at some of the rational in your posts but this I hope is just to enlighten us on other thoughts out there

[maddog]

Geoskid,

My conclusion is that, in regards to environmental issues, Tony Abbott's government is driven by ideology and is hostile the environmental movement.

I agree the irrationality of the superstitious is a problem widespread in our society.

The Liberals have won the election in Tasmania.

[Nuts]

Wait, what was this topic about?

Chooks.. of course. We can hardly be talking politics or religion. What happens to the next broody chook though?

Resist the Green Dragon:

Preferably as extreme examples but quite happy to cater for these sorts in my world, applying any thought they choose, richer for it!

And these guys:
http://www.cbn.com/tv/1412588522001

Even these clowns:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4z3ZNArqE

[doogs]

"Resist the Green Dragon". Sounds like a warning not to go to an Irish Pub today to celebrate St Paddys day!!

[walkon]

That sounds like good advice doogs

[maddog]

'Environmentalism as Religion' by Joel Garreau is well worth a read. The essay concludes with a question:

In the years ahead, we will see whether the supposedly scientific debates over the environment can really be conducted by fact and reason alone, or whether necessary change, whatever that may turn out be, will require some new Reformation. For if environmental matters really have become matters of faith — if environmentalism has become a new front in the longstanding culture wars — then what place is left for the crucial function of pragmatic, democratic decision-making?

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicati ... s-religion

On a lighter note, a poll of New Jersey conservatives found more than one in three think President Obama might be the Antichrist. On fundamentalists, their impact, and how they are best regarded.

Cheers.

[ILUVSWTAS]

maddog if nothing else, at least you are true to your name.

[north-north-west]

'Environmentalism as Religion' by Joel Garreau is well worth a read. The essay concludes with a question:

In the years ahead, we will see whether the supposedly scientific debates over the environment can really be conducted by fact and reason alone, or whether necessary change, whatever that may turn out be, will require some new Reformation. For if environmental matters really have become matters of faith — if environmentalism has become a new front in the longstanding culture wars — then what place is left for the crucial function of pragmatic, democratic decision-making?

Fact and reason are not the same as pragmatism and democracy. In fact, sometimes they're mutually exclusive.

[Clusterpod]

[Nuts]

Fact and reason are not the same as pragmatism and democracy. In fact, sometimes they're mutually exclusive.

Agreed. In fact throughout history it's probably seemed reasonable to exterminate those who didn't fit with a plan. Even what seems a good plan.

At least in a fascist 'society' unpleasant election results don't need to be of concern. Leaders can dispense greater good without the tedium of pandering to constituents.

All in all likely a poor result for conservation, as an aside to politics (or faith).