Missing Walkers found in Blue Mountains

[Overlandman]

From ABC
Good Outcome..

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-06-02/m ... ba/5492964

Rescuers have reached a group of seven bushwalkers reported missing overnight in the New South Wales Blue Mountains.

The alarm was raised when the five men and two women, aged between 27 and 69, failed to return from the Golden Stairs trail in Katoomba on Sunday.
Friends began to worry as the group did not have an emergency beacon and were not prepared to spend the night in the bush.
Rescuers spent most of the night looking for the group and this morning received a text message saying they were safe and well.
The police helicopter, Polair, earlier managed to pinpoint the group's exact location and police and ambulance paramedics are expected to walk the bushwalkers out.
Inspector Ken Shack-Evans says the group was told not to move until rescuers got to them.
"They are all safe and well, there are no injuries reported to us," he said.
"They have spent the night huddled in a cave down there in the bush.
"Essentially what we have done is told them to stay put, do not attempt to walk to any other location.
Police rescuers are leading the group out of the park.

[Grabeach]

There is an interesting 2GB interview with one of the walkers. It was a Sydney based bushwalking club (I've figured out which one but I don't think it adds anything by naming names) apparently doing the Narrow Neck - Walls Pass - Cedar Creek - Ruined Castle - Golden Stairs walk. Seems they were too slow coming down Walls Pass and spent the night under an overhang. They had maps and a couple of GPSs and knew exactly where they were. The interview and other media reports indicated the police had been notified and once contact had been made told them to stay put. Apparently the police wanted to bring in a helicpter, but decided it was not possible in the terrain , so went in and walked them out.

Back when I was involved in S & R, it was my club's policy (possibly Confederation policy) to allow 24 hours for parties to walk out before search parties went in. In the meantime cars etc would be checked. Mind you, this was before mobile phones. To me, the most interesting bit of the interview was when the 2GB announcer asked if they had a PLB, knowing full well they didn't. The bushwalker replied that they didn't, but if they had one they wouldn't have used it as they are only for emergencies. As they weren't lost and nobody was injured, they didn't consider it an emergency. This has been discussed at length in these forums. It seems to me that if left to their own devices they would have simply walked out Monday morning without all the fuss.

[Strider]

All good points Grabeach but perhaps the fault lies in their communication of their plans with respect to wait times if late.

[michael_p]

2GB interview if anyone is interested to hear it: http://www.2gb.com/audioplayer/47241.

[kjbeath]

If they had a PLB and the police knew about it, and it hadn't been triggered would the police response been any different? It should be, but likely it isn't. We live in an age where everyone wants to cover themselves, so the bushwalking clubs response should be to inform the police that there is a party overdue but don't worry. The police then decide that not being worried is not an option, so they start a search.

[perfectlydark]

Yes tbh I dont think they were in the wrong, nor were the police in starting the search. I agree they would have had no trouble walking out next day and the police search was initiated probably to cover themselves just in case. Its a pity they werent able to send a message on the day advising they wouldnt make it out. I think of it as training for S&R. Of course of facebook ninemsn the usual "send them the bill ra ra my tax dollars yada yada" seemed the dominant mood

[Wollemi]

...this kinda thread just ain't the same without Tim's input.

[Ellobuddha]

Damned either way I think.

The endless possibilities......

Hindsight is wonderful. I think the only thing that couldve been done is the group allowing plenty of wiggle room to return. Prewalk notification to NPWS or relation etc that they are an experienced group with maps, gps etc. Allow plenty of time to get out in case something happens like this.

I like their comment about the PLB thought. If it was me I wouldnt have activated it either (and I carry one) They were simply slow and took the safe option to wait till dawn whilst sheltered. They werent lost or injured.

The Police did the right thing. Best to consider worst case scenario and deal with incident as such. Im sure they love a good walk anyway. Getting paid to go bushwalking sure beats driving around all day.

[jonnosan]

According to what I read in the tele today the group got to 'a particularly steep section' (I assume the chains on walls pass), 1 guy baulked and he and another party member went back to the cars on glenraphael drive, it was these 2 who raised the alarm when the group did not arrive at the expected time (5pm). The initial report on monday morning said the group had been 'last seen on narrowneck at 1:00pm). Given the terrain around Cedar Creek, it is not surprising that a group that was at the top of the chains at 1PM did not complete the trip by 5pm and ended up benighted, and it I guess it is also not hard to imagine how someone who watched their mates carry on past a point that looked too scary for themselves, then did not arrive at expected time, would freak out and call for help.

So my take on this is:
- an overly confident trip leader who underestimated the travel time on a route they had never previously done (not casting aspersions - been there, done that!) but made the right call to stay out overnight rather than risk misadventure by completing the trip at night without appropriate gear (only 2 people had torches? again - been there, done that)
- a paranoid trip participant who assumed that the most probable reason for a late party was misadventure
- media reports written by people with no understanding of the real situation but a vested interested in stoking controversy.

The tele article really gave me the trots actually, suggesting that taxpayers where being slugged tens of thousands of dollars because those irresponsible bushwalkers had gone out without an emergency beacon, completely missing the point that the group was not lost, did not need help, and so would not have used an emergency beacon even if they had had one.

[perfectlydark]

I agree with all points jonnosan

[DaveNoble]

According to what I read in the tele today the group got to 'a particularly steep section' (I assume the chains on walls pass)

Not necessarily, there are some steep sections further down - on the ridge part of the trip. It does get a bit scrambly from memory. Perhaps easier to climb up than down? You do need to route find a bit - and that may have slowed the party down?

Lower down - at Cedar Creek - you get to to the big camp cave. I guess that is where they spent the night. Its a good refuge, plenty of firewood, dry - no problems (assuming they could light a fire).

Perhaps in their SMS, they could have made it clear they were all OK and just overdue, and then simply walked out (easy to do from the cave) rather than stay as requested by the police.

Dave

[Onestepmore]

I doubt very much that I would have used a PLB in that situation. No one was hurt, they knew where they were, it just took longer than expected. The media reported 'temperatures down as low as 8 degrees'. I don't think a search party nor helicopters should have been considered. It does show however, that taking some warm and waterproof clothes, extra food, matches etc, and maybe a lightweight tarp or at least space blankets should be taken for a daywalk in the mountains in winter. Hubby and I spent a night somewhere we hadn't planned to in the Blue Mts one night after we took a wrong turn in winter. There was no need to panic.
Mountain out of a molehill in my opinion.

[jonnosan]

One thing where a PLB may have helped - if the people who raised the alarm knew that the group did have a PLB, and so could call for help if they needed it, then they may not have felt the need to call for (unnecessary) help when they did, the group could have walked out the next morning with minimal fuss.

[kjbeath]

Having a PLB probably makes no difference. Unless you have made it clear that you are prepared for an overnight out, most people are going to pass the problem onto someone else.

[GPSGuided]

Sounded like a sensible sequence of event. The walkers appropriately rested overnight when they were caught out. The club appropriately informed the authority when the group did not return. The police made the call to initiate the "S" early than late. The PolAir located the party in good time. Finally, the walkers returned safely. I agree with what's mentioned, the carriage of a PLB may have made a difference to the police's decision making process but can't really use it to crucify the club or the walkers. Yet again, in 2014, a PLB really should have been carried on club based group walks.

[Onestepmore]

Yet again, in 2014, a PLB really should have been carried on club based group walks.

Agreed. But this was not a situation in which it was needed to be deployed.

[GPSGuided]

Agreed. But this was not a situation in which it was needed to be deployed.

I think it's not so much a case of activating it in this case but for the SAR/Club people to know that the group has the option should they be in dire difficulty, potentially modifying the decision tree.

[Grabeach]

This episode does raise a rarely discussed problem with bushwalking clubs, that being that you often don’t really know the abilities (both mental and physical) of your co-walkers.

As a leader you can ask intending participants all the questions you like over the phone and get all the right answers, but occasionally you will still end up with someone who is unsuited to the walk. A scramble that is a pleasant diversion to some may be an insurmountable barrier to others. How does the fitness of someone who romps through a high intensity gym or pool workout compare with your typical bushwalker? Sometimes you only find out part way through the walk. If you book in on an exploratory walk with a leader you’ve never walked with it can be even more difficult. Rare, but some leaders take it as an insult to be quizzed on their own knowledge or abilities. Others can be very convincing pointing out the route on the map, but not so good at realizing that a couple of hours into the walk we’ve only covered half the distance we should have.

As a leader, there have been several occasions when I’ve had to alter the planned walk because a participant wasn’t quite up to the task. Even been a couple of occasions when as a 'follower' I’ve tactfully convinced the leader to do likewise when through local knowledge I realized the day walk would end up an overnighter. Fortunately on all these occasions the problem became apparent early on in the walk. Could just as easily not have. This leads to the fact that no matter how much you stress the procedure for overdue parties, it won’t always get through to the non-walkers sitting at home. You may still get someone who is going worry enough to contact the police when their loved one hasn’t returned at midnight.

I can well understand why some very experienced people don’t lead walks!

[Lophophaps]

This episode does raise a rarely discussed problem with bushwalking clubs, that being that you often don’t really know the abilities (both mental and physical) of your co-walkers.

For longer or harder walks I always made it a condition that potential participants have a history of walks with the club. For most people this means starting with day walks or base camps, then gradually getting to harder walks. Even on easy day walks some people cannot cope. I've had a person go missing on a road with about two kilometre to camp. (Found much later, hitched and overshot the camp by miles.) A walk on the Snowy River was ruined for two people who had to escort a very slow walker out. On the Snowy Plains a very slow walker meant that we were walking at dusk on very steep ground, limited options, no possibility of camping. On the AAWT a few party members simply could not keep up, and had to bale out. It took them a day or two to get home.

Hence, if the walk is at all serious, it is essential to have good personal knowledge of all people. Assurances are not worth anything.

[GPSGuided]

For longer or harder walks I always made it a condition that potential participants have a history of walks with the club.

I understand all responsible clubs do this.

[DaveNoble]

This episode does raise a rarely discussed problem with bushwalking clubs, that being that you often don’t really know the abilities (both mental and physical) of your co-walkers.

This can also be a problem with the leaders of walks. I can recall one leader of a well known Sydney club, that whenever he put on a trip, if it was a daywalk, people would warn walkers signing up for the trip - "take a sleeping bag and and a bit of extra food, or at least a torch", if it was a weekend walk - "take food for Monday". The leader was quite a competent walker and experienced - but he lacked a sense of time. He would walk into a place (perhaps for 3-4 hours), sit around for hours enjoying it, then find he only had an hour or so of daylight left to walk out. So most of his trips were overdue to some extent, but this did not cause any problems - as people had been well warned.

Dave

[GPSGuided]

This can also be a problem with the leaders of walks. I can recall one leader of a well known Sydney club, that whenever he put on a trip, if it was a daywalk, people would warn walkers signing up for the trip - ... So most of his trips were overdue to some extent, but this did not cause any problems - as people had been well warned.

Inducing a bit of the unknown factor in wilderness adventures. Sounds pretty good to me and I am sure some to many would enjoy it.

[tom_brennan]

For longer or harder walks I always made it a condition that potential participants have a history of walks with the club.

I understand all responsible clubs do this.

It's much more about the leader than the club. Leaders understand the need to vet participants for club walks, but some leaders are definitely tougher than others when it comes to turning people away. It's understandable. No-one likes to give disappointing news to a walker who is trying to sign up.

But it's also disappointing when a party has to change route because someone is just not up to it.

I think I'm relatively tough about vetting people, but I've still been burnt once or twice.

[DaveNoble]

Then there is the rather amazing case of one particular person who joined a bushwalking club, went on a trip - without the leaders permission (he just turned up) - on that trip - he had to be rescued from the Colo Gorge (Helicopter and big S&R callout). After that, that club stopped him going on certain trips - so he joined another club. Same thing happened - he went on a trip without the leaders permission. This time there was a medical issue - and the trip had to be abandoned part way through the first day. That club limited the trips he could go on...... So he joined another club.... and went on a Kowmung Trip (aptly to "Misery Ridge") - the party had to abort the trip because "One member of the part was very slow"....... then he joined another club.......(Under a different name).....

By this time, the word about him had spread through the grapevine - so he started writing letters to many newspapers alleging discrimination in bushwalking clubs because they would not let him go on walks.

Then he decided to start his own bushwalking club (with himself as President). He advertised - and a lot of people turned up and joined the club..... but after another helicopter rescue, some members of that club started to wonder, and didn't like his autocratic manner..... and then another helicopter rescue..... So he decided to collapse that club (the members did not accept that and met anyway - and the club is still going quite strongly to this day), so - he decided to start another club...... (I think that one failed?)

Anyway - in all this he had 4 helicopter rescues over a few years.......

I have not heard that he is still around.

Dave

[GPSGuided]

Anyway - in all this he had 4 helicopter rescues over a few years.......

I think that's once too many....

[kanangra]

You know I think I might have been on that trip with the helicopter rescue in Colo Gorge. Sort of rings a bell. Are we talking late '70's there?

K

[DaveNoble]

Late 70's or 1980/81? About then I think.

Dave

[Grabeach]

You've jogged my memory here, Dave. If it was the same guy I'm thinking of, he was a big problem for a number of years. We were warned by a club that had previously booted him out that he was thinking about joining ours. I'm pretty sure temporarily closing the club to new members was even considered as a means of keeping him out whilst avoiding the discrimination issue. Fortunately, for us anyway, he never showed up. This would have been in the mid 80s.