With children....

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With children....

Postby Zzoe » Wed 04 Mar, 2015 11:48 pm

Hello All

I'm specifically seeking a bit of advice about hiking the Overland Track with children. My husband and I are experienced overnight and long distance hikers, and our kids (four and eight) are also pretty good- they've done multi-day walks on the Bibbulmun Track a few times, and also the whole Routeburn Track in New Zealand (when they were 3 and 7). Our eldest is great with walking and with carrying his own gear, but our youngest has so far not carried his own gear on anything other than a single night walk, and that was only 10 km each day.

I'm also wondering if the first week of January might be a good time to do the walk... Or does it get crazy crowded?

Has anyone walked the track with children and might care to share thier experience? I've done a quick search and come back with one thread- though rather dated- which was useful :)

Many thanks in advance!

Zoe
Last edited by Zzoe on Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: With children....

Postby hobbitle » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 10:39 pm

I have no advice but just wanted to say well done on getting your kids out there. I can't believe your 3 year old walked 10km in one day. That must have taken you guys all day.

Having done the OLT I feel like a 4yo may have difficulty negotiating some of the terrain but I don't have much idea of what 4yos are capable of in reality. There is one day where if it's wet it can be very slippery and muddy with slippery rocks and tree roots. The first day has a steep and fairly rocky climb. I would imagine the Cradle and Ossa side trips may involve a bit too much rock scrambling for a 4yo on their own but perhaps OK with the occasional leg up from mum or dad.

It would probably be nicer to camp than use the huts, with kids?

Anyway just wanted to say - good work!


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Re: With children....

Postby Zzoe » Thu 05 Mar, 2015 11:21 pm

Thanks Hobbitle. I think nature is a bit of a tonic for children (not to mention thier mothers and fathers!), so it's always been important for us from when the kids were just babies. The trick to getting our four year old to walk good distances is to incessantly tell him stories. I must say it drives me batty at times (especially because he often wants repeats of the same stories, and if they're not exactly the same- exactly- then he's apt to point out every difference and want a detailed reason for the change. Half the time I was story telling on auto-pilot but he was rivetted anyway. The trick on the Routeburn Track was to point upward at the snow and say 'that's where we're going, lads'. They had never seen snow before: it was all we could do to stop them from running!

With regard to the terrain on the Overland Track- are there any steep and sudden drop-offs... deep ravines or fissures?
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Re: With children....

Postby Burnsy » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 12:11 am

No idea about the OL track but I know our 3.5 year old would be pushing it to accomplish 10km in a day and it would be a a very long day, after our last walk I estimated she could manage 7 over a day with a big break in between, and that would be on dry relatively easy tracks, not like some of those I have experienced in Tassi. I reckon at this age a year makes a huge difference, good on you for giving it a go if you do, I look forward to the report. Motivation is definitely the key......................"So let me get this right dad, I find three yellow snake triangles and you will give me a lolly snake?"
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Re: With children....

Postby philm » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 7:50 am

We completed the Overland in April with our daughters aged about 11 years and they carried 13 kg packs. They were fit and only found the first day (up Marion's) to Waterfall Valley a tough day. They seemed to acclimatise after this!

If your children are tough and fit and carry little or no weight you should be fine. The youngest probably would not carry anyrthing and the oldest maybe a day pack (light). If your children are fit and determined you should be fine. Most days are not long distances and I would say that the first day to Waterfall Valley hut is the toughest and day 3 from Lake Windermere to Pelion is the longest (about 16 km).

Generally it will be pack weight which will slow or stop your kids! - not so much the walking if they are fit.

In January you could have any weather from 30 degrees plus to snow. January on the track is generally busy so I would advise staying in your own tents for a good nights sleep as the huts can be crowded (and sometimes / often people are noisy / snoring etc..) which means that you don't get a good nights sleep - this is a killer!

You know your kids the best and I would try a few overnight walks with some diastance to test them out before bookign the track.

Good luck and if you undertake the trip it will provide you and the children with some great memories.
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Re: With children....

Postby whynotwalk » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 10:13 am

I agree with others congratulating you on getting out with your kids Zzoe. You're doing a great thing for their future as well as their present :D

A few other thoughts:

* It would be a tough walk for a 4 year old, for a number of reasons (see quote below)

* It has been done by others with small children. On the PWS site they say this:
Is the track suitable for children?
Around 600 children (aged 5-17) walk the track each year. Most children love the Overland Track experience, but it’s very important they are physically and mentally able to cope, and are well-equipped, or it might ruin their love of bushwalking for life! As a general guide, we don’t recommend the track for children under 8. Daily walk distance is between 8 and 17 km and unpredictable weather (including blizzards) can occur at any time, even in the middle of summer. Children are more susceptible than adults to fatigue, hypothermia and heat exhaustion. If parents/carers do intend to walk with young children, we recommend the children first gain experience on other less demanding multi-day walks and their parents/carers have experience walking in Tasmanian alpine areas.
. . .
To read a wonderful account of walking the Overland Track with a child, click here. http://www.traveller.com.au/hiking-tasmania-with-children-small-stature-great-heights-3cglv

* There's a great guide book for children on the Overland Track that a friend of mine was involved in preparing. I reckon it's brilliant, and well worth a read. See details here: https://shop.parks.tas.gov.au/ProductInfo.aspx?id=219

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All the best with your decision,

cheers

Peter
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Re: With children....

Postby stry » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 3:23 pm

Bit much of an ask for a four year old, I think.

A healthy eight year old should be OK if not carrying more than their lunch and some clothes. Some of the days will be long grinds for an eight year old, but would be manageable with early starts and sensible breaks.

Always remember that all that seemingly boundless energy which is displayed by children is not backed up by toughness and stamina. It's easy to be mislead, with unhappy results.
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Re: With children....

Postby Zzoe » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 4:39 pm

Thanks for your responses and advice. I had checked out the PWS site earlier, but the activity book for kids looks great- I'll try and track it down.

I should probably have mentioned that our now four year old will be five and half in January, which is when we were thinking to do this. In New Zealand we walked the Routeburn Track with both kids- our youngest was then actually 3.5 and he walked the whole way. Admittedly the longest stretch was 8km (though they were sometimes a rather vertical 8km!) He didn't carry anything, but we've done overnight walks since then during which he did carry his own clothes and sleeping bag. Our eldest was then seven years old (he'll be nine next January), and he carried all his own gear and water in New Zealand, but my husband and I carried the food.

My biggest worry is steep drop-offs and unexpected ravines... The NZ Southern Alps had quite a bit of terrain like this and it seemed to me to be the biggest hazard with our walk at that time. I'm especially wondering about this sort of thing on the Overland Track? Is it similar?

The ever changing nature of the landscape in NZ did wonders for our kid's ability to walk... We find that mental exhaustion can be a bigger hurdle than the physical type: here in WA they get tired of unchanging terrain and bush... There are tracts of the Bibbulmun Track which we now avoid with them for this reason. Is the terrain and bush quite varied on the Overland?
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Re: With children....

Postby Zzoe » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 4:42 pm

PS Burnsy... That's a lovely picture of your youngest bushwalker :D We're in WA too. We've never tried the Finding The Yellow Snake Triangles game, but that's a great idea!
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Re: With children....

Postby Mark F » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 4:52 pm

To me the main issues with young children are the length of the trip and bad weather rather than their ability to walk 10km or more in a day. You are going to walk 12-15km average every day for 5 or 6 days and you are very likely to have to cope with high winds, low temperatures and heavy rain or sleet for more than a few hours - possibly a few days. In those conditions the huts are likely to be overcrowded and not a particularly child friendly environment so you are likely to be tenting it. Personally I wouldn't risk it.
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Re: With children....

Postby north-north-west » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 5:13 pm

I think the elder would be fine, but I'd have reservations about the younger, given the length of the trip and the likelihood of bad conditions.
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Re: With children....

Postby Nuts » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 5:29 pm

There are no cliff style falls to be had on the main track, a number of places where a fall would be nasty, big steps, elevated bridges etc.
I know it's probably beyond what your asking but in guiding people through there we specify that the lower age is 12 though it's as much for the other participants and walkers benefit... a guideline and to have a 'figure'. When it comes down to an explanation rather than solid numbers the statement is usually more like ' they need to be able to carry some of their own gear, some form of shelter (ie, groundsheet) and warm clothing, some snacks.. enough gear and maturity to be able to survive a night or two alone and stay where they are. My bigger concern for the young ones (besides the care needed in situations that adults can handle ie. hypothermia, snake bite etc.. and the fact that it can take many hours for evac) is- loosing someone. Not so easy to do in the open country but be very careful in rainforest, even around campsites at night (it's rarely the obvious that seems to get people into trouble).

Personally, a mature 8/9/10yo is a lower figure i'd work from, all things considered, including everyone's enjoyment, especially if you get a wet or cold week.

* Early in Jaunuary we had a 10yo, fit /healthy, downed on day 2 with a rotovirus (gastro) he'd brought with him. Despite medication and care through the night, he was in a terrible state/ was flown out the next day, his little body took 1.5L IV and he was in and out of hospital for the rest of the week. Scary how quick it took him (literally couldn't stand) and the heightened effect on little ones of even relatively benign issues.
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Re: With children....

Postby MrWalker » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 7:19 pm

Zzoe wrote:My biggest worry is steep drop-offs and unexpected ravines... The NZ Southern Alps had quite a bit of terrain like this and it seemed to me to be the biggest hazard with our walk at that time. I'm especially wondering about this sort of thing on the Overland Track? Is it similar?

The steepest drop off is probably going up to Marions Lookout. If you get to the top then you can keep going the rest of the way.
Any unexpected ravines would be on side trips. For example, Hartnett falls is worth a visit, but to see it well from the top you need to get quite close to the edge. Hold your child's hand firmly the whole time and you should be OK.
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Re: With children....

Postby hoverbeam » Fri 06 Mar, 2015 9:51 pm

There's been some great replies that I don't really need to add to other than a brief note from my own personal experience.

My wife and I took our 10 yo sons (who appear in the booklet mentioned above) and we had a great time. The boys loved it so much we're all doing it again over Easter. We didn't do any side tracks due to above-mentioned issues such as steep climbs and cliffs/ravines so we're planning to cover all the side trips this time. My concern with children much under 8-9 yo is the extremely variable weather. We started our walk on Jan 1st and had 2 days of snow. The weather was so severe on the first day that my wife and I had to hold our boys packs to keep them on the track. As it was they were blown off the track at times and dumped in the snow. I'd be a little cautious about taking a 5 yo into these sorts of conditions.

Great to hear that you're exposing your kids early and setting them up for so many amazing experiences.
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Re: With children....

Postby Zzoe » Sat 07 Mar, 2015 12:01 am

Thanks for the replies and for specific info on sheer drop-offs. We hadn't imagined doing the side trips, and that sounds like a good thing. There were very narrow and deep chasms in the NZ Southern Alps- a bit like miniature versions of the gorges in the Kimberley Region... You could walk almost right up to the edge without realising that you were about to step over a cliff. Fortunately on the Routeburn, being so well maintained and marked, the trail was very apparent. From all accounts, the Overland Track is very well marked?

I do appreciate people's estimates on how children of various ages might cope. It's very difficult to guage how other people's kids might hold up with different situations.

My husband has a great deal of alpine experience and winter long distance hiking in (often deep) snow in Central and Eastern Europe (Krknosse Mountains, Low Tatra's etc). I've done day walks in winter in those spots but nothing longer. My only multiday specifically alpine experience was that walk on the Routeburn Track (in September). It did rain solidly- torrentially and ceaselessly- for three days. We also had knee deep snow on the track from the about 2 km's above the Falls up to the Saddle, where we turned around and hiked back out. We had always planned to skip the actual traverse, which we knew in advance to be under deep snow and still very slippy, with a good risk of avalanche. It would have been irresponsible for us to do the traverse with the kids- it was also off season so huts were unattended with no fuel for heating. We walked two nights back out, drove around to Milford Sound and hiked in from the western end two nights to Lake Mackenzie and back out again. So we never carried more than six days of food, and I must admit our youngest didn't have a sleeping bag either, because he was in mine with me. These things would be extra challenges. But kids are generally very good with the snow and cold. We've just come back from winter over in northern/central Europe and they do quite happily manage a whole day of very physical action in the snow without problems... Far better than they cope with the heat here in Perth! It must be said that hot soup was never far away though :).

I suppose in the end we must stack our own experiences against the knoweledge we have of our own children- those are our givens and the things I guess we're positioned to make a judgement on... The missing piece in the equation is knoweledge of the actual track. So thankyou for the specifics, and also for personal experiences. For example, I hadn't thought about wind as much as your experience suggests we should, Hoverbeam. I guess being largely plateau there is not much shelter if the wind picks up? Are snakes as great a risk in that neck of the woods as they are here in WA? We've encountered quite a lot of Tiger Snakes on the track whilst walking here... Are they in that part of Tasmania?

Nuts... I can well imagine the logic in having a cut off age of twelve on an escorted group hike. I know fabulous twelve year olds with whom I'd happily do many things, but walking to the corner shop would be a trial; let alone a multi-day hike!
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Re: With children....

Postby DanShell » Sat 07 Mar, 2015 6:01 am

I haven't walked the full OLT yet (going in a few weeks :) ) but yes the for the most part the track is very well marked and the chances of losing it in good conditions is very minimal.

As you and others have already touched on, you are the only people that truly know your children. 1 out of 3 of mine I would consider to be capable but I wouldn't have taken them at the time purely because of my own lack of experience.

You guys on the other hand sound far more experienced than most when it comes to alpine hiking. Yes it gets very windy up there, it truly is a place where you need to be prepared and expect very bad conditions.
And yes tiger snakes (and copper heads and white lipped) are very much a part of Tasmania although in my experience if you give them a wide berth they are fine. As you would know, they will only bite if they are threatened so poking them or accidentally treading/startling them is usually the only time they attack ;)
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Re: With children....

Postby Nuts » Sat 07 Mar, 2015 6:45 am

Zzoe i'm sure some of the school groups parents are enjoying the reprieve.
I met a forum member with his 5/6yo(?) son and grandfather in tow. They were at the last hut and appeared to be in good spirits, having had a ball. Meeting them it was much easier to see that they were safe enough in their planning and experience than it was on here. I guess you'll get mostly 'the voice of concern' on a forum. :)

Tiger snakes & Whip snakes most likely see a few of each with a warm week.
The track is quite well marked. It surprises me to see people head down a drain and start wandering off into the bush looking for it.
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Re: With children....

Postby Zzoe » Sat 07 Mar, 2015 10:56 am

Nuts wrote:Zzoe i'm sure some of the school groups parents are enjoying the reprieve.


Very tactfully put, Nuts.

That's very encouraging that there was another child a similar age having a great time on the track, and bodes well! The best times we've had as a family have been bushwalking... I do truly enjoy my kid's company in the bush. I don't think the city really sits well with them: their inner primates bubble very close to the surface. Not sure what that says about us as parents?!?

DanShell... I'm not that experienced at all with Alpine things... I rely on the other half for that! He actually finds it much harder to hike in heat over here than anything he did in Europe. I guess he's more used to preparing for cold... There's not a great deal you can do with the heat.... Except not go!
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Re: With children....

Postby cjhfield » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 7:37 am

We asked ourselves the same questions as our kids grew up. Parents know their own kids best. We wondered about doing extended walks when the youngest was 7. We started with the 6 foot track in NSW and discovered they could do the distance OK but they stopped enjoying it when carrying any weight so we ended carrying everything. We planned a base camp trip to the Walls of Jereusalem at that age also but didn't go due to weather. Over the next few years we worked through the Milford Routeburn and finally the Overland when the youngest was 12. It was high in our priorities that not only could we do these walks safely but that the kids would enjoy them and love the outdoors as we did.

The Overland is not as well maintained as the Routeburn. It's still a good track but there is more mud. You have to carry more gear as you need a tent,mats 6 days food at least. When my kids were 7 I could not have carried all the weight. We needed them to be old enough to carry some, I think my daughter carried maybe 7kg and my son 10 or 11kg. The Overland is longer so the option of turning back is not so easy once you are 3 days in. The weather can be dire but you know about that.

When we did it there was a family of 5 doing the track with the kids something like 10,8 and 6. Dad was carrying a HUGE load including hand luggage. They got to the end but they were doing it tough. I'm not sure the parents were talking to each other at the end. It had become a survival epic rather than fun. And the weather was good.

My kids could not have done it at 5 even if I could have carried all the weight. The Parks advice of a youngest age of 8 sounds about right to me. Your kids cope with the discomforts better than most so 7. I'm sure you would get to the end but I'm not sure you'd have a great time and you could turn them off walking for life. The base camp at the Walls sounds a better bet to me. But you know them best.

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Re: With children....

Postby eaglehawk » Mon 09 Mar, 2015 2:07 pm

Hi there,

We did the OT this previous June with our then 6 and 7 and a half year old children. We had no doubt they could do it and we also knew they'd enjoy it - which they did and is of course the whole point. Only you can know this of your children. And only you know how much they can carry. Trust yourself.

At that time of year daylength was our biggest issue but this won't be a problem in January.

I must add that we had the luxury of being able to go at any time during June and could time our trip according to the weather forecast. If a good run of weather had not happened we would not have gone. If you are restricted by flights and OT bookings dates then it might not be so good. Hiking is easy for kids but coping with miserable wet conditions is less so. And while they may cope they might not enjoy it. Having said that, the mud was our kids absolute favourite part!

One other thing to note is the social impact of having young children out there where it is less expected by others. If walking the track with 60 other people - do expect some of them to find small children bothersome (unfortunately). Off season worked well for us but is obviously not for everyone.

Hope this helps, sometimes you just want to know someone else has done it. It was the highlight of our year and something we will all remember forever.
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