Could I get a gear check please?

[Gadgetgeek]

Fleece and a wind layer in combination is best, since fleece on its own doesn't hold wind out enough. Its also a bit of an endurance thing, cold wet just seems to slowly set in over the day. pretty much just think of it as how humidity magnifies heat, it does the same in the other direction, just pulls the heat out of you faster, so a damp 15 can feel like a dry 5.

[wayno]

you may have to wear more layers in damp cold conditions than dry cold conditions to stay warm, people who have experienced dry cold and damp cold will tell you its easier to stay warm period in dry cold conditions by dressing up. the moisture in damp conditions transmits the cold to you your body a lot faster than dry air and takes more energy to warm up inside your clothes...
fleece dries faster and doesnt get as damp as fast as other types of garments.

[JohnStrider]

So would a fleece jacket underneath a wind breaker work?

[wayno]

So would a fleece jacket underneath a wind breaker work?

generally speaking it would a reasonable amount of the time i have a fleece jacket and a vest, jackets can be too warm sometimes, but sometimes i need a fleece, depends on the weather. sometimes i find a windvest rather than a windshirt better.
basically a fleece will cover you for a wider range of weather conditions than synthetic quilted jackets will..
a raincoat with physical vents is preferable to one with out, core or pit vents or vented main pockets...
high humidity means moisture is slower to get out of moisture permeable raincoats. i've spent a day walking on flat ground in rain seemingly not raising a sweat but ended up a drowned rat in my own sweat...

[perfectlydark]

Keeping the wet out seems just as important

[north-north-west]

Keeping the wet out is the most important thing. And if you do get wet, minimising the windchill is next.

[JohnStrider]

Think I'l go with the fleece and vest combo. Just need something that is going to dry relatively quickly, keeps me warm and isn't too heavy.

[corvus]

You can use a Polartec Winbloc Fleece if you can find one ,my"Ciagna" Aussie made jacket is excellent in our cold Tassie windy conditions .

[Gadgetgeek]

fleece and vest were my go-to in cooler western canada weather. between that and your wool base, that should give you lots of layering options.

[wayno]

windbloc fleeces are heavier than normal fleece and offer less warmth than having a normal fleece and a wind proof layer combined pus windblock is denser and doesnt dry as easily as normal fleece. normal fleece is king for drying when its wet..

[Moondog55]

JS see my earlier post about the dedicated windshell
If DIY is your thing it would make an easy W/E project using LW Argon from Simon A simple pullover with hood and no pockets/zipper
Even tho mine has no hood it does make a huge difference when the breeze blows
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/wind ... lite-smock
A few grams more gets a zip plus a hood for more versatility
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/wind ... eed-jacket
The added warmth of the windproof is equal to another fleece layer, I wear mine between my powerstretch top and my LW fleece and then my insulated shell and if need be my storm parka over everything but it also fits over my PowerDry layer and under the PowerStretch so lots of versatility there

[perfectlydark]

MD do you have much experience with that sort of project? Ive been thinking about it but garments scare me!

[Moondog55]

Not much but the Boss does
My experience is more with repairs and modifications.
Still an old fashioned pullover anorak is a pretty simple garment and I'm going to tackle one soon, japara first then in EPIC
My current clothing interest is the 17th/18th century tho

[JohnStrider]

JS see my earlier post about the dedicated windshell
If DIY is your thing it would make an easy W/E project using LW Argon from Simon A simple pullover with hood and no pockets/zipper
Even tho mine has no hood it does make a huge difference when the breeze blows
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/wind ... lite-smock
A few grams more gets a zip plus a hood for more versatility
http://www.montane.co.uk/range/men/wind ... eed-jacket
The added warmth of the windproof is equal to another fleece layer, I wear mine between my powerstretch top and my LW fleece and then my insulated shell and if need be my storm parka over everything but it also fits over my PowerDry layer and under the PowerStretch so lots of versatility there

Something like this, MD?

http://www.achillesheel.co.uk/montane-f ... rnt-orange

Would I then compliment it with a vest?

[Moondog55]

That's the one in my first link
I like the burnt orange colour
Clothing is such a personal issue and you will probably need a bit more experience before you have your kit "Right" and while I'm loath to advise on particular bits of clothing I haven't used but I have used that garment and it works for me.
I hate being cold but I find I can put up with a lot if I can sleep warm at night, in fact walk cold sleep warm isn't bad advice so long as you are on the positive side of hypothermia.
Yes I personally would wear a vest over the top of that and then my storm parka over everything
Note tho that I seldom have fewer than 3 layers with me on any trip, usually 4 if you count my base layer PLUS storm clothing to go over everything
As I have said a few times I am not a fan of merino base layers and prefer polyester although polypro is maybe better I can't stand the stink it develops after 4 days.
Polypro is the best bang for buck tho in terms of warmth for weight and cost; $9- at Rays clearance at the moment so $18- a set.
My "Go-To" layer is an old microfibre tracksuit top
So to give you an idea
Base layer is PowerDry/ then PowerStretch/ then the LW vest then the trackytop, if really cold [ snow] then I have a Mont-Bell Thermawrap, where I would add the windshirt really does depend on the conditions at the time and over all that I wear the Goretex parka if I need to. Head/hands/feet all have similar layers
Sometimes I may still carry an merino jumper in place of the vest but that's a personal quirk

[JohnStrider]

Yeah I thought it might have been the same. Your advice on layers etc makes a fair bit sense. Agree with a lot of what you have said here
Personally, I don't mind the merino thermals. Seem to be doing the job for me since I got them in December, but the real test will come in the coming months when it gets colder.

Definitely going to invest in a vest soon when funds allow for it.

[stry]

There's probably some consensus here JS

I haven't seen the expression "walk cold - sleep warm"before, but it certainly works for me. I do not like being hot and sweaty (well not avoidably so ) when on the move, and I do not like being anything less than cosy at night.

I wear: Base layer - Prefer and usually use PowerDry, sometimes the next Polartec weight up from PowerDry, sometimes Helly Hansen meriono/polypro. I also don't mind merino. I DO NOT like the feel and characteristics of cheap polypro.
Next layer - 100 weight fleece pullover. Sometimes a merino polo shirt instead

When on the move that, with occasional use of my rain jacket, has been enough for me in Aus. I have tried the Gore Windstopperfleece and find it significantly warmer than straight polartec, which is why I am keen to try a windshirt.

I have also sometimes carried for use on the move, but not needed in Aus, a second fleece. Around camp, I add a light down jacket, and maybe a light down vest. The camp jacket and/or vest would do the job just as well if they were a quality synthetic like Primaloft.

So you've got your merino base layer sorted out. A light to mid weight fleece should do for most of the day, and a windshirt could be expected to be much easier to put on and take off than digging out your rain jacket for warmth (even if it is on top)

Something extra for when you have stopped for the day could be down or a heavier fleece, or a synthetic. Vests weigh little and add a bit of warmth. Depending on your physiology, a fleece or primaloft vest could fill the role of the second, heavier fleece. If you are still cool in camp,the windshirt could be added,or even your rain jacket.

Worth pointing out that In NZ, I have always carried, and often used, one layer more than my usual Aus setup described above. The extra layer is usually a 200 weight fleece. Evenings in huts in NZ can be cold, particularly for me.

By the time you have absorbed everything in this thread, I think you will find that most of us are following a similar broad clothing regime, overlaid with some personal preferences.

Whatever you choose, you are going to be very well set up for a first NZ trip. Pretty sure you wont figure in Wayno's "dispatches"

Last edited by stry on Mon 13 Apr, 2015 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[JohnStrider]

Thanks for your post, Stry. I don't mind walking cold/sleeping warm either. As long as I've got sufficient clothing, I'm all good.

I am starting to notice a trend with subtle differences that are down to personal preference. I've got the Montane smock on its way this week and will look for a vest. and possibly a fleece jacket, in the coming months.

Will check back in a few months when I've tested out all the new gear and possibly added/subtracted from my current list.

Cheers to everyone who took the time to give their advice and tips on my list. Greatly appreciated.

[Moondog55]

About jumpers and jackets and layering.
I find if I wear it when moving I want a jacket to ventilate but if I'm only wearing it when static I want a pull-over.
If you don't like close fitting clothing buy Polartek 100 but if you like closer fitting stuff go for PowerStretch or PowerStretch Pro
Remember if things go belly up you will need to be able to layer everything together and you don't want to have a combination where you need to undress to put more warm clothes on, this is why those of us who like the snow pay the extra for pants with zips up the sides

[JohnStrider]

For those who are unaware, I'm heading over to the North Island of NZ at the end of December for a 10 hike with 3 others. I will be sharing my tent with another in the group. I also realise there are a few other items (GPS/compass, camera) that I haven't included. This is because I don't have them yet.

UPDATE 4/5/2015...

One Planet Ned 70L 2300g
One Planet Wurley 3 man tent Inner 1494g
Hiking Pole 242g
Pack cover 123g
Water 2000g
Kathmandu stove 192g
Spork 5g
Cooking pot 141g
Fuel 380g
Featherlite smock 120g
Kathmandu 900 down vest 355g
Mountain Designs fleece 264g
CFC rain coat 261g
Mountain Designs Merino thermals top 167g
Mountain Designs Merino thermals bottoms 157g
Mountain Designs rain pants 289g
Mountain Designs merino icebreaker socks 140g
First Aid Kit 301g
S2S UL Mat 476g
EE Quilt + S2S dry sack 783g
Food based on 10 days (some days there will be opportunities to buy breakfast and dinner) 5.4kgs

Total: 15590g

Last edited by JohnStrider on Mon 04 May, 2015 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Strider]

Beanie? Gloves?

[JohnStrider]

Gloves, regardless of what I am doing, have always been a hindrance to me. Hadn't considered a beanie before.

[Strider]

They won't be a hindrance when it snows and you can no longer feel your fingers, believe me.

[JohnStrider]

They won't be a hindrance when it snows and you can no longer feel your fingers, believe me.

Oh yeah of course, but given I'll be there at the end of December/start of January, and from what Wayno has mentioned in this thread and others, the chances of it snowing on the North Island are slim, yes?

[Moondog55]

Snow maybe not but *&%$#! cold and windy is always a give over that side of the pond
Try fingerless gloves then, covering the extremities is important. I always carry at least a beanie even in the middle of summer here. To keep my Goretex clean I usually wear a mesh type Nike Dry-Fit cap, a beanie over that cap and under the parka hood can be remarkably warm
I don't wear gloves as a matter of course but when I need them I really need them.
Katmandu have good quality polypro fingerless mitts for about $12- and I do think something like that is a minimum. If really cold then that spare pair of woollen socks and the plastic bread bag is available, had to do that more than once

[JohnStrider]

I'll look into the beanie. It's something I hadn't thought of it because the rest of the clothes I'll be carrying should be more than adequate to keep me warm on those days when the wind is howling and the rain is present.

[Lizzy]

Always have a beanie for Tassie or NZ- conditions can change mightily quick!

[stry]

Second the gloves and beanie, pretty much regardless of season. A warm peaked cap would be fine without the beanie.

My non wind block Polartec beanie is 35g. My Damart gloves are 57g. Cheap poly pro gloves would be lighter than Damart.

You will already have the spare socks, and the breadbags aren't even worth weighing - just take them (unless you want to shell out for something better for future use). Might also find some other uses for the breadbags.

Getting closer

[Moondog55]

Breadbags weigh 5 grams My LW microfleece beanie is 15g, UL balaclava 45 grams and my LW woollen beanie is 105 grams My winter headgear is only double those nominal weights
My UL balaclava is my ski helmet compatible but it and the microfleece beanie combined is both warm and still what I term UL
I know you want to keep your load to the minimum but I consider some things simply essential

[JohnStrider]

Breadbags weigh 5 grams My LW microfleece beanie is 15g, UL balaclava 45 grams and my LW woollen beanie is 105 grams My winter headgear is only double those nominal weights
My UL balaclava is my ski helmet compatible but it and the microfleece beanie combined is both warm and still what I term UL
I know you want to keep your load to the minimum but I consider some things simply essential

Yeah fair call, guys. The old good weight vs bad weight argument holds true here.

Will have a look around for both gloves and beanie.