Closed Cell vs Yoga mat

[ErichFromm]

Planning on doing some winter hiking with my hammock.

Given the cold it makes sense to bring something a little extra along to help increase warmth. General approach is to add a sleeping mat between the layers of the Warbonnet Blackbird. Can't afford anything expensive, and not keen on the usual Closed Cell mats you get because they are rather stiff, as well as a pain carrying on the outside of the backpack.

Always one to try something a little different I started thinking perhaps a yoga mat might serve the same purpose. Anyone have experience with this?

For example, Rebel Sport sell yoga mats that look a little more flexible, as well as wider. Though no mention of weight and whether it insulates...

http://www.rebelsport.com.au/store/yoga-pilates/yoga-mats/40802#/?page=1&pageSize=12&sort=-ProductSummaryViewsWeighted%2C-ProductSummaryViewsTotal

[Strider]

I thought an underquilt was the usual approach with hammocks?

[ErichFromm]

Yes - I have one of those. Looking for something "extra" to compensate for the cold. My UQ is only a three season...

[Moondog55]

Softer and much heavier. I tried one a while ago and gave it back to the Op-Shop I purchased it from, although perhaps i should have kept it for the camp cot
Try the Op-Shops first if you want to try it, ours have them all the time for around $8.
I think Strider is right and an underquilt will work best. I was quite comfortable in that hammock without a mat but i do see why an underquilt would work best

If your current UQ is too cool why not just boost it a little, Is it down or synthetic? I can't remember

[Picaro]

I've tried yoga mat, CCF, and truck widescreen reflectors. I don't use any of them anymore, and wouldn't rely on any of them for winter down your way.
If you can go $100 you can get a DD Hammocks under blanket, thats what I would recommend for winter value on a budget.

[ErichFromm]

Hey MD. You tried the hammock when it was relatively warm - nothing like snow conditions. I have a Hammock Gear Phoenix (3/4 length) with an extra 2 oz down fill. Warm most of the time, but have never had it in the snow.

I have the double layer bottom, which is designed for a mat to be inserted.

Thanks for the DD reference Picaro. But is the blanket in place of a quilt, or something you can add together? Given I have the twin layer it might still be easier to just slip in something....

[simonm]

Hey mate - if you want closed cell foam some foam specific places will have thin closed cell foam or Clarks Rubber may have something. You don't have a Thermarest or similar?

[Moondog55]

K-Mart have thin [4mm] PE foam mats for about $5- relatively bulky but cheap and very light
Better may be an add-on synthetic underquilt to go under the down one, would add plenty of extra warmth. What about a blowup such as the S2S?
More compact but of course much more expensive

http://www.seatosummit.com.au/sleepingm ... ltra-light
The comfort Plus really is reasonable comfortable and reasonably warm, the UL insulated may do the trick for you

[andrewa]

My experience of yoga mats is that they are quite heavy, and not much less bulky than CCF. My experience with my hammock is that it is cold, and a thermarest style mat didn't conform at all well to me, although I'm yet to try it with the underquilt I bought last year. I'd probably be thinking of a layer of 2 mm CCF between you and the quilt if you already have a quilt...or buying some down from Tier gear, and overfilling the underquilt. The other factor is minimising the breeze that hits your hammock, as I think that this "saps" heat from you...a bigger tarp would make a difference here. I'd like to enjoy my hammock more, but I think I'd prefer my tent in the cold, even though the hammock is more comfy.

A

[simonm]

Yes Andrew makes a good point about blocking the wind. I have just made a simple under quilt cover which a mate here in Tassie will be testing out for the same purpose.

[ErichFromm]

I'll check out Clar Rubber and Kmart - thanks. I do have a thermarest, but one of the general, non insulated ones. Great for lightweight but ultimately just full of air so bad in winter.

I'll start exploring the expensive options for long term, but for the short term am trying to go the inexpensive route. Too many things to buy - want to get a Stratospire 2 since our forum weekend away....

I've thought about getting a hammock "sock" for the wind, or even a Warbonnet Superfly with the doors....all expensive though.

let me know how you go with the underquilt cover Simon.

Winter use of a hammock should work AndrewA. I've seen enought youtibe clips of shugemery in temps below -20. It's just knowing what works (I think).

[Moondog55]

Maybe you need a "Winter rated hammock" One where the insect mesh is replaced with a LW tightly woven fabric like "Argon" ?
If Simon has any 2ounce Climasheild left that's all I would be using as the extra layer underneath; I find that weight enough as a second shell in winter otherwise the cheapskates option is a summer weight quilt for Target cut down to the right size

[simonm]

Maybe you need a "Winter rated hammock" One where the insect mesh is replaced with a LW tightly woven fabric like "Argon" ?
If Simon has any 2ounce Climasheild left that's all I would be using as the extra layer underneath; I find that weight enough as a second shell in winter otherwise the cheapskates option is a summer weight quilt for Target cut down to the right size

Yes MD there are hammocks out there with a fabric top cover for winter, condensation can be an issue though, apparently.

Unfortunately I am all out of 2oz Climashield but I should have some 2.5oz due in soon at a better price, hopefully.

Here is a photo of the under quilt protector. To be honest I have no idea how well it will work but they seem reasonably popular in the US, will know more after testing.

[Picaro]

I'm unsure now, as to whether you already have some sort of under quilt, or not ? If yes, then a space blanket in between the layers is a simple boost for minimal weight and expense.
The SOL Emergency Blanket is one of the less noisy space blankets.
Coupled with an under quilt protector, it will add enough to a 3 season quilt to get by on for little outlay.

If you don't already have an under quilt, then the fact is that most hangers end up with one after a stint of trying alternatives. And if you go that direction straight up, it will save some trial and error expenditure. and the DD under blanket will give fairly economic insulation to keep you comfortable into the low minuses

[michael_p]

I've slept in a hammock using a standard width CCF mat and it was not good. The mat was too narrow for me causing my arms and quilt to be in contact with the hammock fabric. Any warmth around the edges was just sucked away by the hammock fabric. And the CCF was so stiff it was hard to get it to lay flat. On a previous occasion I put my Big Agnes Insulated Air Core (wide and long) mat between the hammock layers and this worked a lot better. Don't know how this would go in real cold climates.

Avoid Yoga mats (the ones with a waffle finish) as they are made from a very heavy material. An alternative to CCF is NBR foam. NBR is softer and about the same weight as CCF. Kmart sells NBR excercise mats (170something-cm x 60something-cm x 12mm) for around $12-$14. I have seen 183cm x 61cm x 10mm NBR mats for sale on Ebay for less than $20. I think it would be worth getting the longer version.

Moondog mentioned the 4mm mats from Kmart. I think they are a bit thin for a main mat but they could be cut in half and used to make wings for an NBR pad. See here for what I am talking about: http://hikinghq.net/hammock/hammock7.html. I haven't tried this yet but I plan to do so as I have broad shoulders and the wings idea is appealing to me.

Hope this is of some help.

Cheers,
Michael.

[andrewa]

By the time you add the weight and volume of hammock/underquilt/pad/wings/tarp etc, its almost lighter and less bulky to sleep in a tent!

However, people certainly do push the lower temperature boundaries down with hammocks, looking at hammock forums, and seem to have a good time.

The underquilt protector looks is interesting. Does it add anything over having a bigger tarp that comes down to ground level (at least on windward side)?

A

[Picaro]

An underquilt protector will help to enhance the dead air space which a tarp won't do. "UQP's" can be DWR breathable or non-breathable vapour barrier types. The latter will hold dead air better, but it necessitates a vapour barrier ( space blanket, windscreen reflector, etc ) above the insulation as well.

[ofuros]

A combo of undercover + space blanket between your layers will add warmth & hardly any weight. Less bulky too.

Or you could punch holes in the yoga/ closed cell mat cutting the weight by half + add a under cover.

Or add a 2nd underquilt + undercover.

Wear thermals top & bottom + beany/balaclava to bed, plus any combo of the above.

Add end 'doors' to your tarp to lesson the breeze blowing through....

Cutting down of heat loss from the wind is a big factor.....I'm sure there's more combo out there.

[ErichFromm]

Thanks all.

Michael P - that was what I was afraid of, that a mat would move and just not get the job done.

I figure I need to experiment a bit. I'll try the space blanket, and maybe even a piece of fleece blanker. The cover is more a long term thing - though I've got some rip-stop nylon so might try with that. The climashield would be good - but really represents building a whole new UQ so would be a long time before I could even consider.

It does seem a lot of hassle with a hammock, which is I guess part of the attraction. Build a solution yourself....

[Moondog55]

I experimented last year with that reflective insulation wadding sold by Spotlite and other stores. I was surprised at how effective it was if you had even a small air-gap to allow the reflective layer to work. It is very thin tho so it only adds about a 6mm dead air space when covered with a windproof layer but I personally found that the reflection principle worked and it breathes well
I used it in double knees on my pile pants and as an stiffening liner layer in my synthetic over bag at the large foot-box
If you want something cheap to experiment with try the LW stuff often sold for ladies "House-coats" or you can have the single sided fleece I have here for postage and a bottle red wine at the next get-together at Mt Franklin in Spring
Even with the possible condensation issues Simon mentions, perhaps a dedicated winter hammock is the way to go if you want to hammock camp in winter, above the snow line

[ErichFromm]

I took the plunge and ordered a SOL blanket last night. It's the thicker version (6" x 8") so hopefully will allow multiple uses.

I'll try it out soon, at the very least as a wind-block though possibly as an insulation layer if I can do the setup correctly.

Will report back once I do...

[Moondog55]

150*200mm?
Seems awfully small
Typo??

[Picaro]

180 x 240

[Moondog55]

This is one of the problems with Metric, people make different assumptions, coming from a slightly technical background I always give measurements in millimetres [ except for some strange reason my height] and others use centimetres with their shorthand
Picaro I assume you are using centimetres
So a blanket nominally 6 foot * 8 foot which makes sense

[Strider]

I think Erich meant to say 5' x 8'.

http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/sur ... anket.html

[ErichFromm]

Thanks for the clarifications - yes, I was meaning feet. I only didn't use metric as I was too lazy to convert what the label said.....

I think 150*200mm would only be good as a crotch warmer.

[gordononline]

Hi

I have a Hennessy ultralight explorer asym classic hammock and I haven't had any problems with the cold weather to date. I also have the large hex fly.

My sleep system is as follows:

Sea to Summit Micro III
SOL bivvy sack
Kylmit Ineretia Xframe mat
Hot water bottle
Balaclava

The set up is as follows: mat inflated inside sleeping bag, sleeping bag inside bivvy - me inside sleeping bag with two pairs of socks, and fully clothed, with balaclava and hot water bottle. I've only had this out sub zero once this year and I was warm during the night. I haven't tried this kit in snow areas - but in general the Australian Alpine areas that I have been to in the past don't have trees above the snow line - therefore making hammock camping a bit of a non-event.

The key to this setup is the SOL bivvy - it raises the temp of the sleeping system by up to 15 degrees. I did some testing when the temp was around 2 degrees outside my sleep system - it was between 13 and 17 degrees inside my bivvy. The bivvy cost me about $65 and is very light and i have used it as a replacement for a sleeping bag in warmer months. I think that I am a fairly warm sleeper so maybe this is not for everyone.

[ErichFromm]

Thanks Gordon

I actually took devlivery of a few SOL heavy blankets recently so the setup I'll be testing will be similar. Glad to know it works.

Only difference is I don't have the full Bivvy (nor the mat). Guess I can revise as I start testing...

[nq111]

By the time you add the weight and volume of hammock/underquilt/pad/wings/tarp etc, its almost lighter and less bulky to sleep in a tent!

That is true - the benefits of a hammock aren't really to do with weight and some tent options are lighter. Reasons to use a hammock are comfort, more flexibility in finding camp sites and far superior cooling (they are much better in hot conditions than any tent). I much prefer a tent for cold and alpine conditions and a hammock for warmer conditions (e.g. anything in Queensland).

Back to the insulation, i have used CCF of varying thicknesses, reflecting windscreen material and an Exped Synmat. I greatly prefer the synmat even though it is the heaviest option of these because of its low packed volume and the way the half inflated mat conforms nicely in the hammock and doesn't move around (I have a double layer for the pad).

The comments about needing a wide mat I agree with (my Exped for the hammock is the LW version).

The other options worked well enough too - the lightest was a 4mm CCF I shaped myself. It weighed in about 200gm and it was plenty warm to about 5-6 degrees. However it was bulky in the pack, and sometimes creased and folding under me in the sleeve. The stiffer windscreen type pad was better in the hammock as it is stiffer, and worked to near zero that i tested it too. But again bulkier than I preferred. I haven't had any problems with condensation on any of the pads.

[simonm]

Hi Erich,
The under quilt cover I made has received the thumbs up from my mate when used on his Warbonnet Blackbird. It's a pretty simple design but seems to do the job. I am going to make one for my mate and myself out of a lighter fabric and see how that goes but if you would like to try out this prototype let me know and I will send it out to you. It would be good to get more feedback from hammock users.