Uloola Turrets - RNP off track near Uloola Track

[Rob Gosford]

hi GPS,
you could send Tim, of FatCanyoners fame, a message. He may put you on the right track

QUOTE: "We stopped for a few photos before climbing the ridge to White Triangle Point and Uloola Turrets. From here we had 360 degree views of the Royal National Park"
http://fatcanyoners.org/2013/02/02/karloo-pool

also, at Tom Brennan's site.......
http://ozultimate.com/tom/bushwalking/2005/20050618_waterfall_to_heathcote/photos.htm
the 3rd photo

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Rob. Maybe FC will drop in at some point or I'll send a PM later to get his take. Otherwise I spoke with RNP's information desk yesterday and have forwarded our combined knowledge so far by email. Hopefully I will receive a reply from a knowledgeable ranger soon.

[tom_brennan]

Don't remember where I got my info from, but most likely the 2nd edition topo maps. That had the the label on the western side of the creek, but no marker showing where the Turrets were.

Presumably some person in the mapping department assumed that the marker should be to the right of the label, instead of the left, and presto, we have the Turrets down in Uloola Brook. Silly stuff! Another black mark on the 3rd edition maps.

http://bit.ly/17INxTl

[kanangra]

Tom that is an interesting site. Do you know of one with the latest edition maps set out like that?

K.

[Allchin09]

Kanangra,

I use SIX Maps for planning walks and exploring new areas. It provides satellite imagery, as well as a topographic maps similar to that of OSM. They have also included the current topographic series as well.

You can access it through http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/ and if you want to change between the OSM type and LPI topographic maps, just click on "basemaps" and then the little spanner within the NSW Map image.

[Pteropus]

I just took photos of my two remaining RNP maps, where my 1990 map, which is a Lands Information Centre CMA map in the AGD66 Projection, looks the same as Tom's ArcGIS layer. My 2002 Tourist map produced for the National Parks, has the Turrets up on the Gurrumoola Ridge where I put the circle on GPSGuided's map in a previous post. Since this latest map is the one I used for the past 10 years or so, I assumed the Turrets were the little ridge above the Hacking Valley. However, with GPSGuided's latest info it looks like the Turrets have changed position again! I’m glad this thread came along, because I recall many years ago on a walk I questioned the position of the Turrets on my map, and was sure they were the rocky outcrops to the west of Uloola Falls and not to the east of the falls. But I never looked further into it and just accepted my most recent map... I am certain that Dave and Allchin09's maps are the correct ones though. It seems like the cartographers at the Land Information Centre have moved the Turrets about quite a bit over the decades.

1990 Port Hacking Topo 1:25000 second edition

Uloola_Turrets_1990.JPG (339.17 KiB) Viewed 13021 times

2002 RNP 1:35000 map

Uloola_Turrets_2002.JPG (316.62 KiB) Viewed 13021 times

[kanangra]

Alex,

thanks for that.

K.

[kanangra]

I've just found the spanner gee it is small) How good is that? My map collection has just been rendered obsolete. Amazing. I just can't believe how much i don't know. Now all I have to figure out is how to post photos.

K

[DaveNoble]

Hi Dave and Allchin09.
Would you mind scanning or photographing those old maps and posting them? I'd love to see them.
Cheers, Andrew

I could do this - but it is a rather big map. It would be possible to photograph sections of it. Copyright is another issue.

My map was published by the Lands Department.

Dave

[GPSGuided]

I've just received an email reply from a senior ranger of RNP on this and subsequently had a phone conversation on it. Here are the key points I learnt, some historic and some specific.

- RNP was an area that used to be used by the army for artillery training and many of the land features were named from a military perspective eg. Artillary Hill and Shrapnel Hill etc.
- Landmarks are dynamic over time and can be overgrown following major bush fires amongst other natural events.
- In reference to Uloola Turrets, he said that the general location in the historic maps is correct. Specifically in his words - "the rock formation is on the left side of the track when you walk from Uloola to Karloo Pool." He further pointed out that in Dave's early 1960s map, the "Turrets" are indicated by two dots, lying either side of present day Karloo Track.
- CMA reprint of the map some years ago moved the label to the East for reason unknown to him and is incorrect.
- "Uloola Turrets" is not a single rock but an area of rock formation that currently offers vista view towards the valley and Sydney.
- 'White Triangle Point' is not a trig point but a rock formation that offers no particular practical relevance.

So I think with all the contribution by everyone and this latest ranger input, I at least is now clear on the Uloola Turrets and can more confidently explore it next time. At this point, I note two remaining points of question,

1) How to rectify this present LPI mapping error? Who do we contact in the Lands department?
2) Blue Pools - Upstream from Uloola Falls. Where exactly are they? Based on the two maps Pteropus just posted 4 posts above, one is within 200m of the falls and the other shows it to be "around the corner", some 700+m away.

Whilst recognising it's a tedious job, but I am losing faith on the accuracy of our 25k topo maps!

[Pteropus]

Hi Dave and Allchin09.
Would you mind scanning or photographing those old maps and posting them? I'd love to see them.
Cheers, Andrew

I could do this - but it is a rather big map. It would be possible to photograph sections of it. Copyright is another issue.

My map was published by the Lands Department.

Dave

No worries Dave. I was just curious because I have been noticing that newer maps have less detail on features of interest such as caves and other landmarks, and even that little bit of map you showed appeared more detailed than my topos.

2) Blue Pools - Upstream from Uloola Falls. Where exactly are they? Based on the two maps Pteropus just posted 4 posts above, one is within 200m of the falls and the other shows it to be "around the corner", some 700+m away.
Whilst recognising it's a tedious job, but I am losing faith on the accuracy of our 25k topo maps!

GPS, the Blue pools on Dave’s map seems to correspond with my 1990 topo map. But there are a series of pools along Uloola Brook above the falls. They might be a bit difficult to get to at present, with all the growth in the nasho over the past few years.

Also note that the relative heights of some of the waterfalls and escarpments on the topos might be way off too. For example, on my maps the two tiers of National Falls are 20r and 70r (relative height) respectively, but I would think they are more 8 and 20 m. Unless they were in feet... The use of LiDAR and Digital Elevation Models in mapping should improve such inaccuracies I think.

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Pteropus for the information on the Blue Pools.

To close the loop. I've now reported this Uloola Turrets map error to the Topo Section in the department. Thanks for all the input and hopefully we'll see the correction in the next edition.

[LeftRightShoot]

Hi,

Thanks for the info here. I can verify that I have stood on "the turrets" as illustrated in the 1960's maps shown in this thread. I have searched for these features a few times over 10 years and while I am glad to have located them, I am disappointing at the ease of which they can be reached!

Cheers

[GPSGuided]

Need to find the next challenge!

[ribuck]

Uloola Turrets is accurately and informatively mapped on OpenStreetMap. Judging by the "Source" tag, the contributor ("Zhent") may be one of the contributors to this thread. Thanks!

uloola-turrets.jpg (203.98 KiB) Viewed 11861 times