Is 'Stay Still' the best advice when lost ?

[Xplora]

(Un)fortunately there are heaps of blackberries in Lady Northcote creek, especially just downstream from the Opera House. Probably ripe now.

Not ripe yet. Another 5 to 8 weeks depending on altitude. Assuming NSW blackberries in Alpine areas are similar to Vic. I know mine are no where near it and usually it is late Feb to pick and make jam.

[Xplora]

There is not much at 1000m ASL on Hannels to take photos of. Certainly no need to walk off track but even if you did it is pretty easy to turn around and walk back.

[jtmiske]

There's a huge difference between following and leading, especially in scrub with no track ...

He did not have the skills to do this.

Exactly. So I wish people would stop referring to him experienced. I am very glad he was found alive. I also agree with Skibug and Kickinghorse2/Phil. Maybe it's just disorganised reporting, but the story doesn't add up. What Avatar said is true, I think:

Taxpayers are reported to have funded $2M for 400 volunteers over 13 days.

The ABC wrap-up report is as sketchy AF.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/ ... /104802976

We haven't been given the full story. We want the facts. We are entitled an explanation.

As a female in my twenties, I remember being repeatedly lectured to "not engage in outdoor activities I was not experienced enough for and hence possibly waste resources in requiring rescue." Of course, accidents happen, but the point was that you can minimise your chances by being sufficiently experienced. I'm not hearing this point being made publicly in any of the reporting on the recent outdoor accidents. Except a little on this forum, which is refreshing, thank you. I'm concerned these sorts of incidents (between Christmas and early Jan this year in Tas and Kosi) will make tightening National Park restrictions even more restrictive.

[Moondog55]

You can be very experienced in one area, out of your comfort zone in another and out of your depth somewhere else. You become experienced by doing and surviving.
I'm mainly interested in how he managed to become separated from his pack

[Warin]

You don't get 'experience' without doing.
Best 'experience' is failing and learning from it.
Of course learning should be done under supervision.

[Biggles]

You don't get 'experience' without doing.
Best 'experience' is failing and learning from it.
Of course learning should be done under supervision.

In fewer words, it is said—

Experience is a wonderful teacher.

[puredingo]

I can’t speak for the “experts” this kid or anyone else on this site but if it were me in that situation the moment I hit that hut that’s EXACTLY where I would have stayed come hell or high water. He obviously had the berry foraging on tap and water too….seems an obvious choice whether experienced or not, thats not bushwalking nouse that common sense?

[Lophophaps]

As a female in my twenties, I remember being repeatedly lectured to "not engage in outdoor activities I was not experienced enough for and hence possibly waste resources in requiring rescue." Of course, accidents happen, but the point was that you can minimise your chances by being sufficiently experienced. I'm not hearing this point being made publicly in any of the reporting on the recent outdoor accidents. Except a little on this forum, which is refreshing, thank you. I'm concerned these sorts of incidents (between Christmas and early Jan this year in Tas and Kosi) will make tightening National Park restrictions even more restrictive.

I started bushwalking in my early teens, easy stuff, tracks, short distances, not much climbing, etc. Walking with an experienced leader and with others to advise me I learned. There were no rescues. I'm aware of children as young as 3-4 years-of-age doing short walks - and loving it. With suitable leadership and walk selection, age is no barrier.

Like many experienced bushwalkers I'm very conservative, erring on the side of safety with a number of options available if things turn a bit bad. A few years ago at Kosciuszko NP I was stuck for three nights while a blizzard whipped snow around the hut - in October!

There does not seem to be much that parks agencies and others can do to restrict bushwalkers. Enforcement costs would be prohibitive and impractical. There are simply too many access points at KNP to police. The spate of recent SAR operations may be a statistical outlier. It may be due to social media saying to do a certain walk with lovely sunny pictures. Never mind that in a few hours sunny can change to cold wet and windy. Never mind that the track is really a route and it can fade. Never mind that reliance on a phone for navigation and calling for help is not possible if the battery dies, the phone is lost or the phone breaks.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

The spate of recent SAR operations may be a statistical outlier. It may be due to social media saying to do a certain walk with lovely sunny pictures.

I'd say it's a statistical outlier, but the general trendline is "up" for the social media reasons you mention. I see it all the time, instagram posts - particularly by influencers with youtube channels and the like - of places once considered very much the domain of the bushwalking community, invariably followed with comments like "where is this please", and so it goes. It's a good thing in a way that it's no longer just the domain of a certain community... the "outdoors" is more embedded in our culture now than ever which will have positive flow-ons for, eg. health systems (resulting from a more active community that will dwarf, by orders of magnitude, the cost of the occasional rescue, but that's a separate conversation...).

But there is no doubt that there are more people heading to remote places than ever which has its own set of impacts to deal with. One example that does my head in is that there are now whole SM pages dedicated to the Western and Eastern Arthurs that have driven visitation through the roof and necessitated a booking system... the last thing I would have ever expected when traipsing around there in the 90s! And the tenor of the discussion in those pages is very much along the lines of the "yay, bucket list" tone previously more associated with the OLT, more lycra and crop tops than polyester and merino, and a whole different set of reasons for being there. It is what it is - not better, not worse, just different - but the trend of increasing SAR responses will likely keep on going up as a result (which as I said isn't necessarily the worst thing from a society-wide perspective).

[marron]

Yeah there's a lack of messaging going on from the reporting of it. You'd expect some quotes from likely bodies about what to do, dangers of various things etc et , coupled with "here's what he did do...".

At the same time a fella went over into the Grose last week from Hanging Rock and.... minimal stuff in the press and nothing of that nature either (i supppse this may have been intentional which they don't normally report on, but when they didn't know, and he was missing the very same week old mate in the snowys was found... it's a bit of an odd thing to my mind.

And overall yes, i think that it can be tied a bit to the way the bush is being "sold" these days in general, bucket lists, insta shots etc, and thats probably a bit the way your average press release regurgitating journo/editor sees it too. And yes the way to get experience is by doing, but the false impression created by the perfect condition glamour shots leads people to think their experience is enough to tackle xyz when its not.

Would love to know the nuts and bolts of it.
If i was with a mate in an unfamiliar place to both of us who said "just going to spend a bit of time off track taking some photos", i'm saying, "righto, i'll wait here", asking how far, how long, ahd if it's anywhere a bit interesting, making sure they've got nav sorted. And safety gear. Easy to say of course but yep. Because it's just so hard to imagine how with even the vaguest directions or route knowledge he would have gone astray quite the way he did. Unless he had no skills whatsoever i n which case what were his mates doing letting him wander off. I guess what i mean is, before being in a stand still or self rescue situation, what prep has been done? Which you'd think the press would have also wanted to hammer.

[jtmiske]

Like many experienced bushwalkers I'm very conservative, erring on the side of safety with a number of options available if things turn a bit bad.

Me too . Though I wasn't so much in my twenties, to be fair. Experience by doing, sure, but responsibly with some leadership and not claiming to know more than you do and requiring millions of dollars to be rescued as a result.

There does not seem to be much that parks agencies and others can do to restrict bushwalkers. Enforcement costs would be prohibitive and impractical.

I hope you're right.

The spate of recent SAR operations may be... due to social media saying to do a certain walk with lovely sunny pictures. Never mind that in a few hours sunny can change to cold wet and windy. Never mind that the track is really a route and it can fade. Never mind that reliance on a phone for navigation and calling for help is not possible if the battery dies, the phone is lost or the phone breaks.

But there is no doubt that there are more people heading to remote places than ever which has its own set of impacts to deal with. One example that does my head in is that there are now whole SM pages dedicated to the Western and Eastern Arthurs that have driven visitation through the roof and necessitated a booking system... the last thing I would have ever expected when traipsing around there in the 90s!

Yeah there's a lack of messaging going on from the reporting of it. You'd expect some quotes from likely bodies about what to do, dangers of various things etc et , coupled with "here's what he did do...".

Yep, yep and YEP to the last post in general.

[marron]

Well he were go then. A bit of focus/advice in this article about what to do. (The advice given is stay in place, of course!)

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ch-success

The article does say that the lost person was famiilar with the area. I'm sure I've read at least one other saying it was his first time walking there.

[Son of a Beach]

According to my daughter, the best thing you can do if you are lost is to play a game of solitaire.

Apparently this is certain to result in somebody coming along to tell you what you are doing wrong or what card placement you’ve missed.

Of course it only works if you actually have deck of cards.

[Warin]

According to my daughter, the best thing you can do if you are lost is to play a game of solitaire.

Apparently this is certain to result in somebody coming along to tell you what you are doing wrong or what card placement you’ve missed.

Of course it only works if you actually have deck of cards.

Solitaire is available as an app. Ask your daughter.

[Biggles]

I never depart on a walk without making sure the phone is fully charged.
And the Candy Crush is running the most up to the minute version!

[puredingo]

Is candy crush still a thing!!??… far out! I was totally addicted to that time destroyer a few years back.

[north-north-west]

What's Candy Crush?

[Son of a Beach]

My humble apologies for completely derailing this (previously) good and important discussion.

[puredingo]

What's Candy Crush?

In all good conscience I can’t answer that question. Don’t go down that road, it’s a slippery slope…just walk away and forget we ever had this conversation.

[Camminata]

Angry Birds was a good one .... sorry more derailing

[matagi]

My go to is Spelltower.

Yeah, ok, I'm the weird kid in the corner.

[Moondog55]

Of course there are different rules if simply stranded in the outback. In that scenario then always stay with the car