A disaster waiting to happen?

[Son of a Beach]

In relation to copyright issues, this may be of interest.

It's veeeery long, but eventually has some practical and simple steps to deal with copyright theft of the internet, and explains why in most cases is it quite easy for an individual to sort out on their own in most situations.

[optdyl]

Glancing at the article Nik just posted it seems that the Journo has not breached copyright as he/she/it has linked their source, as well as named "David" as the author of the information.

As has been said earlier if you don't want people to use your intellectual property, the best idea is not to post it on a public forum (or as DavidMorr has done, delete it). At least we now know what lurks among us, and to be careful of what we do (and don't) want potentially published in the media.

dyl

[walkinTas]

My personal opinion, but I have no problem with journalists reading the contents of this website and/or referencing the material on the site in a fair and legal manner. I appreciate their interest in all things bushwalking. We have asked for and received permission to post extracts from newspapers on this site, and a reciprocal arrangement would be nice.

[corvus]

My personal opinion, but I have no problem with journalists reading the contents of this website and/or referencing the material on the site in a fair and legal manner. I appreciate their interest in all things bushwalking. We have asked for and received permission to post extracts from newspapers on this site, and a reciprocal arrangement would be nice.

I agree and believe that if you are on an open forum it is just that open and there for all to see and comment on.
c

Last edited by corvus on Thu 30 Sep, 2010 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[flyfisher]

Agreed Corvus,'tis an OPEN forum and if I didn't want my thoughts known, then I'd keep them to myself.
ff

[Nuts]

Yer, there for all to see (or copy)! For all time! A testament to pearls of wisdom (or otherwise)!

[Azza]

I wasn't going to wade into this one again but...

I've changed my identity because it was semi traceable.
There is a site out collating all the post off bushwalk tasmania via the RSS feed and other sites out there on the internet and linking them to the username.
This is pretty evil as its linking every post I've made and potentially anyone else who just happens to use the same username on another site.

I have a friend whom i work with who's identity was traced off his website by a religous nutter who took offence to some content posted on the site.
They tracked him back to his home address and his online work profile. The nutter started posting slanderous emails to the CEO of the company (ASX top 300 Company) and to our customers as well. Basically they tried very hard for a sustained period of time to destroy his reputation.

So my personal opinion is that yes, this is an online forum and should be publically available. But this external site harvesting details through an open RSS feed is a bit of a worry.

[corvus]

Yes just google nuts,corvus,flyfisher and see what you get
c

[geoskid]

It's hard to know what to believe, whether read here or in the papers.
My Perception is that what these guys did/are doing happens all the time all over Australia - it's adventure and is perfectly normal and acceptable.
They may well have made some bad choices - 1 that springs to mind is stopping and talking to talk to an 'experienced' stranger. David - did you ask permission from these guys to plaster their passing conversation with you all over an open Forum (and get some facts wrong)? Whats the diff. with what the SMH reporter did?
As it turns out thay are fine, and probably were always going to be.
I have learnt something here and it's got nothing to do with preparation for an adventure.

[flyfisher]

I have learnt something here and it's got nothing to do with preparation for an adventure.

Yeah mate, it's amazing how much trouble a busybody can cause.
ff

[davidmorr]

There is at least one journalist for the SMH in this forum. You have been warned.

Just thought to look at his profile.

Joined:Wed 29 Sep, 2010 7:36 am
Last visited:Wed 29 Sep, 2010 1:21 pm
Total posts:0 | Search user’s posts
(0.00% of all posts / 0.00 posts per day)

So obviously found my post, and created an account so he could send me a PM.

And the PM was not "Do you mind if I quote your article?", it was "Can I interview you?".

A further thought on all this is that if someone considers what was posted to be libellous, they may not see it in this forum. But if it gets splashed all over the media, then it can be seen and libel action becomes a possibility. Who is the offender in this case - the poster here or the media who publish it? We all need to be very careful about what we say here or anywhere.

I don't know for sure, but I suspect this would have been a quiet search for some missing boys if the journalist had not seen my posting. I'm feeling embarrassed at the police having to deal with ***** idiots like this.

[davidmorr]

http://omgili.com/user%3Ailuvswtas

http://omgili.com/user%3A%22aljscott%22

Looks like it is time to have a different username on every site I use.

And I am really glad I never put anything much in my profile on forums and web sites.

Last edited by davidmorr on Thu 30 Sep, 2010 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[davidmorr]

In relation to copyright issues, this may be of interest.

It's veeeery long, but eventually has some practical and simple steps to deal with copyright theft of the internet, and explains why in most cases is it quite easy for an individual to sort out on their own in most situations.

Thanks for posting this. But note that is based on US law.

While the steps she recommends are probably sensible, Australian law may differ in significant ways. And you have the complication of multiple jurisdictions - what can you do if you are here and they are in USA or Canada or Europe or China.....

Hmmm, wonder if my new copyright notice sig is enough to demand removal from these indexing sites? Pity I am away for the weekend (as all good bushwalkers should be...). It would make a good long weekend project, especially if it is raining as it is supposed to be.

[ILUVSWTAS]

It's hard to know what to believe, whether read here or in the papers.
My Perception is that what these guys did/are doing happens all the time all over Australia - it's adventure and is perfectly normal and acceptable.

While that may be true, it doesnt mean we need to waste the time of the rescue services making sure idiots who arent properly prepared are ok.
The fact that this thread started becasue someone who spoke to the group in passing knew they had nowhere NEAR enough time to complete the trip shows that the group in question have absolutely no idea what they are doing.

[Azza]

So obviously found my post, and created an account so he could send me a PM.

And the PM was not "Do you mind if I quote your article?", it was "Can I interview you?".

I have been involved in another situation involving dubious journalistic integrity.
Years ago I was over in New Zealand mountaineer and at the time another Tasmanian was killed in a climbing accident.
A local journalist hit the forums and can up with my climbing partners name and tried to contact him for interview.
They just called through the phone book until they hit upon one of his relatives who informed them that he was currently away climbing in NZ.
The journalist put two and two together and assumed it was us that had died and proceeded to contact our parents to inform them that we'd been killed in a climbing accident and would you like to be interviewed?
So yea.. you can imagine the issues that caused...
The things people will do for a story...

[jcr_au]

Yes just google nuts,corvus,flyfisher and see what you get
c

OK, I did. Are there really so many fish as I can't seem to catch them

[corvus]

I just did again and got two google hits

[jcr_au]

I got 4

1st was this thread, 2nd the discussion on leeches, 3rd the home of a fly fishing group called troutnut.

The 4th referred to a book review you did on a book called so many fish so little time

[corvus]

1 and 2 are spot on don't fish or write book reviews all fun and games but eh!! just shows what google bot actually picks up and retains
Corvus (for a reason)

[jcr_au]

Brings a whole new meaning to "What is once said can not be unsaid"

[corvus]

Et tu, Brute
Corvus(for a reason)

[davidmorr]

Just a postscript to the events described here originally. I went to pick up our rafters over the weekend. They were intrigued to hear the start of the story.

What they experienced was that on Wednesday morning, a helicopter came over, gave them the thumbs up, then went upstream. It buzzed around for a while, then went away. Shortly after that, the boys in the canoes came around the corner.

They played leapfrog for a while after that, the inflatable boats going over the rapids and blockups much faster than the canoes. Since our people were only travelling half a day each day, the boys got away from them eventually.

The next day (Thursday), at the end of a big rapid, they found the green canadian canoe bent double and jammed solidly in the rocks. On a sandbank nearby was some of their gear, which they must have decided to leave behind.

Later that day, the Polair helicopter came over, landed on a sandbank and talked to our people. They were looking for two of the boys. It seemed that two of them must have walked out after the canoe was damaged, probably up Bob Turner's Track. The other two had continued on.

Some time on Thursday (I think), the two boys approached a builder working on a property in Upper Colo. He let them make a call, then they continued on.

At this stage, the Colo is very sandy and shallow, and not really deep enough for a canoe with reasonable draft. So it seems likely that they had to walk a lot of this stretch and tow the canoe.

[flyfisher]

Mmmm.... Interesting. Thanks for the update David.
ff

[tom_brennan]

Going back to the copyright issue, it seems that journalism is one of the exceptions to the normal workings of copyright ie that permission is required for reproducing a "substantial part" of a work.

"Reporting news
You may use a work or part of a work for the purpose of reporting the news in newspapers, magazines and similar
periodicals, and in reporting news in “communications” (such as broadcasts and on websites) or in films, provided
the dealing is fair. If your report is published in the print media, you must identify both the work and the author."

See more at
http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/inf ... f/g034.pdf

[davidmorr]

Just came across the text of my original posting, and since a reasonable amount of time has passed, I thought it might be worth putting it back here for the record. This is the first post in the thread:

Yesterday, I helped a party from my club to get down to the Colo River (Wollemi NP) with inflatable boats. They are taking a week to float down to Meroo, with many stops to explore side valleys and gorges.

They started from Canoe Creek which is a very steep climb down (300m) and took about 2.5 hours. Interestingly, climbing up that 300m to come home only took 1:40.

Just as we set off to drive home, four young men hove into view, with two canoes on a trolley. They had walked in from the road, 8km and had taken 4.5 hours. (They started with two trolleys, but one had broken a wheel.)

Their plan was for one day's trek to the river, and one day canoeing down the river to the Colo bridge. None of them had been down to Canoe Creek before, and didn't appear to know anyone who had.

At the bridge, they were going to call their girlfriends to pick them up. If they were not back by Tuesday evening, the girlfriends were to organise a rescue.

Given how late it was, about 4pm, they had decided to camp where the track leaves the road and get down to the river in the morning. (I suspect it would take all day with the gear they had....)

They had 60 litres of water because they didn't trust the river...

They had day packs, one small tent between them, cheap sleeping bags under their arms, mobile phones in their pockets, no waterproof containers, no warm clothing, ......

They were surprised when we said it was going to take our crew 7 days to float down the river. They were expecting it to be long flat stretches like the lower Colo. Unfortunately, up here, there are frequent blockups and a lot of carrying is required. And the water is often not very deep.

We were a bit astonished, and tried to explain the reality to them. Despite that, they were going on.

I did manage to get the girlfriend's number and rang her when I got home to say they would be later than expected. She said that someone had been in the lower Colo canoeing and had said it was easy, so they decided to have a go, against all advice.

Fortunately, she said, they did have enough food for four days.

I guess that they will have an adventure, and I hope they make it rather than having to be rescued.

They will probably encounter our group some time, so we may hear more of the story.



This is the third post in the thread:

More news. I came home tonight to find a message from the girlfriend saying one of the other girlfriends had panicked and called the police. (GF1 says that GF2 had a dog at the vet and had no money to pay for it. Boyfriend was going to pay but he is in the Colo, likely till the end of the week....)

I then got a call from Windsor Police wanting details, and later from Blackheath Police Rescue. They are going to do a full search tomorrow with a helicopter and police going on foot to Canoe Creek to see if they are still there.

One of my group actually took a picture of them which proved useful to the police to know what to look for and what equipment they had.

And they were not as ill-equipped as I thought. They did have a big wet-bag, warm clothing and two tents. One of them even had an artificial leg.

[davidmorr]

This might be best for another thread.. but I think this is a bit of a concern.

http://omgili.com/user%3Ailuvswtas
http://omgili.com/user%3A%22aljscott%22

External sites are collating our posts and linking them to user profiles.

This site does not seem to be indexing forum postings any more. Just ads....

[davidmorr]

Just looking back at this after a few years, and the media landscape as it currently is, it seems that this method of journalism has become the norm. Get your stories and do your research on the Internet. Quote large passages word for word. Sad really…..

The journalist's username here is hett07, but he has not logged in since September 2010 when this originally happened. Probably only thing he did was PM me.

[walkerchris77]

How good are jelly beans. They rock.

[Nuts]

Just looking back at this after a few years, and the media landscape as it currently is, it seems that this method of journalism has become the norm. Get your stories and do your research on the Internet. Quote large passages word for word. Sad really…..

I have seen quotes around looking suspiciously like they came from here. One could have some fun with Chinese whispers, doesn't make for the best informed public.
They can contact me, i'd tell them anything.. A throw away user name and a prolific participation in throw-away posts might help.

[perfectlydark]

While I joined here after this happened, david you are correct. Journalism is now just copy/paste. I was pretty mad last year as one comment I made via facebook on a political candidates status wound up in a news article, name and everything, and completely out of context. Be careful what you say these days, the hacks who publish the news have less talent than a google bot