Snow camping on the Alpine track

[hikingoz]

Does anyone have any suggestions for a good 5 day winter walk around the NSW alpine area?

I've walked a few sections of the Alpine Track including Tom Groggin to Mt Bogong, Tharwa to Kiandra and Guthega to Valentines Hut during spring and summer. I'm planning an easy to moderate hike with snow shoes during the winter season. Has anyone had good experiences in particular sections of the Alpine Track or others at this time of year?

Might consider walking in Victoria but would prefer not to drive too far...

[Tony]

Hi abceight,

Good to see another Canberran on Bushwalk.com.

I have done a lttle bit of snowshoeing up in the KNP, a good five or so day trip would be the classic Kiandra to Kosciuszko crossing.

Tony

[hikingoz]

Thanks Tony for the suggestion. Sorry I've taken so long to post. What do you mean by Kosciuszco crossing?

ABCEIGHT

[DarrenM]

It's possible to do Guthega to Kiandra (or the reverse) in 5 days on snowshoes but you may find a full crossing from Thredbo a stretch in 5, even in good weather. Best case scenario would be more like 8 providing all goes to plan. You could easily spend 5 days around the Main Range proper exploring the lakes and notable summits although it would be extremely weather dependent.

If you would like to stick to something a little familiar, maybe a repeat or variation on your previous Guthega/Valentines walk. The route provides a bit more protection through the Whites river corridor, and if the weather is ok you could visit Tin hut and Mawson return.

Just leaning on the conservative side as I'm not sure how much winter time you have above the treeline.

DM.

[hikingoz]

I have been considering a repeat walk from Guthega. The group I will be walking with are relatively inexperienced. I havn't done much winter hiking either and I don't plan to hike on the main range this time. How is the Jugangal wilderness area for winter hiking? A through trip from Guthega to Kiandra is still an attractive idea.

[DarrenM]

Hi abceight,

The Jagungal area is quite remote (relatively speaking) during the winter season and can get quite gnarly weather wise. It would take around three days from either end to reach in good weather on snowshoes, plus the return journey. Most people don't attempt the crossing until they have built up a few seasons of winter travel and are usually on skis. Few people cross on snowshoes due to the time it takes. A full K2K on shoes can take up to 10 or more days if you get held down by weather.

In terms of the seasonal differences from summer to winter, you can expect full snow conditions from the park entrances most years. The weather is a fairly serious issue that needs to be monitored before and during any trip into the backcountry. The skill set and equipment needed are slightly different than what you may be used to but building on them is half the fun.
If your group is a little inexperienced, google the daylights out of all things backcountry and make sure you have all the right gear before heading out. Maybe a base camp style trip would be good way to gain some more experience for those in the party that need it.

Check out http://www.ozbc.net/ (some good basic info) and maybe try some backcountry forums on the Australian ski sites. I found them helpful.

This pic is from just below Schlink pass on a fine weather day just to give you an idea...and Jagungal from Little Twynam. Have fun and keep us posted.

[climberman]

It's possible to do Guthega to Kiandra (or the reverse) in 5 days

DM.

So will you tell them or will I?

[DarrenM]

My first attempt (2003ish) took 5 full days not including one and a half days of gastro madness at Mawson sitting out a blizzard.....

....I don't remember any others.....

[tele-whippet]

A good loop, going either way would be, Guthega Power Station - Disappointment Spur Hut - Gungarten Pass - Tin Hut - Mawsons Hut (side trip Jagungal) - Valentines Hut (side trip Valentines Falls) - Schlink Hilton - Whites River Hut - Horsecamp Hut - Guthega Power Station.
Just remember good etiquette if you want to come back with no grievous bodily injuries and DO NOT snowshoe in the single tram tracks skiers make when going up hills.
A GPS is great for navigating in white out conditions.

[DarrenM]

Good advice Mr Whippet.

Here's a good example although I've found walking on the downhill side prevents crusty slabs breaking off and landing in the ski tracks.

[ninjapuppet]

A good loop, going either way would be, Guthega Power Station - Disappointment Spur Hut - Gungarten Pass - Tin Hut - Mawsons Hut (side trip Jagungal) - Valentines Hut (side trip Valentines Falls) - Schlink Hilton - Whites River Hut - Horsecamp Hut - Guthega Power Station.
Just remember good etiquette if you want to come back with no grievous bodily injuries and DO NOT snowshoe in the single tram tracks skiers make when going up hills.
A GPS is great for navigating in white out conditions.

Interesting trip! Ive been looking at the map since last year trying to figure out a good path for this winter, and you just gave me an excellent idea to try.

and sorry if I'm ignorant, but what do you mean by good etiquette? are you referring to getting out of skier's ways as to not stop their momentum?


cheers.

[tele-whippet]

When skiers ascend a slope, they get grip either from the pattern on the base of their skis or from climbing skins attached to the base of the skis for uphill friction, both of which need maximum contact with the snow. Compressed snow makes for the fastest most efficient ascent, thus the first skier breaking trail on an ascent does the hard yards laying down the compressed track which subsequent skiers use for a more pleasant ascent and can go on auto-pilot cruise mode as their skis are locked into the "tram tracks" of compressed snow.
IF snowshoers wander all over a single "skin track" it stuffs it up by chopping the surface up and so decreasing the maximum contact area between skis and snow causing crutch destroying downhill slippage when lugging a big pack and also destroying the side walls of the tram track.
A ski track and a parallel snow shoe track is good etiquette on the uphill and avoids skier rage.
Downhill etiquette is a different kettle of fish!

[hikingoz]

Thanks tele-whippet. Dissapointment spur does make the walk to Valentines or Mawson Hut into a more interesting circuit. I might consider this option if the weather is good. Interesting point on etiquette too...

[foghornx]

Sorry to hijack (though its still on the same topic) - but any opinions on the Main Range Circuit walk from Guthega in winter?

Difficulty level? Doable on Snowshoes? How much longer should it take than the 3-4 days for the walk in summer?

thanks

[hikingoz]

Thought I'd put an update in on this thread.

I went to Guthega on the weekend. Headed out friday from the power station. Camped on a saddle on disapointment ridge just below Mt Gungertan. Stayed at tin hut on the second night. Over the kerries to schlink hut and then back to the car on sunday. It was an amazing trip. Well worth the effort. THanks to those who suggested trips etc

My walking buddy dropped his red Black Diamond snow shovel on the way from Mt Gungarten to Tin Hut. If anyone has located it please let me know and I'll be very greatfull.

nallo 3 snow blown

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light snow about 20-30cm

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lunch near the top of mt gungarten

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tin hut

P6120133.JPG (68.05 KiB) Viewed 22534 times

[cdg]

Those are some amazing foters.

I must say that first tent photo - i feel sorry for anyone inside!

[Tony]

Thanks abceight,

brings back memories.

Tin hut nearly covered with snow

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[Lizzy]

ohhhhh nice pictures- love the 3rd one
cheers
lizzy

[tele-whippet]

Nice one abceight.
More snow in that neck of the woods than I thought, excellent.
Heading down w/e after this, hoping for a tad more white stuff.

[DarrenM]

Nice work and thanks for the update.
Unless you get back before Monday, the shovel may be there until spring. I'll check the hut log in the next couple of weeks in case it has been spotted.
Great pics.

[hikingoz]

Wow tony. You wouldn't have had much of a view out the window with snow like that The snow was light on the ground when we descended to tin hut on saturday. it would have been even lighter on sunday arvo in the warmer conditions.

CDG - both me and my mate were laughing in the the Nallo 3 tent. it looks a littly funny in the photo 'cause it was frozen solid. It was well into the minus temps. we cooked dinner and melted snow inside with still enough room for packs etc. It was easily up to the challenge which is a relief 'cause paying for it was like passing a brick hehe

thanks for the nice comments folks

[ninjapuppet]

Nice red hot flash pants ABC!

red's obviously your new fabourite colour now. what model snowshoes are they?

[Tony]

Wow tony. You wouldn't have had much of a view out the window with snow like that

Hi abceight,

Here is a photo looking out of Tin Hut window, you might also like the photo of the Trig on top of Mt Gungartan.

View out of Tin Hut window

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Trig at Mt Gungartan

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[hikingoz]

Cheers for the photos Tony. I really appreciate the comparrison. It makes me want to head back deeper into the season. For the record that window is now cracked on the interior pane. Its a shame because double glased windows are a nice feature.

Ninjapuppet. The bloke in the picture is actually my mate. Standard issue State Emergency Service waterproof dacks.
Do have a lot of red stuff though. Tent, snow pegs, shovel, and MSR Denali Evo snowshoes.
The Denali snow shoes are pretty easy to come by. There are plenty of pairs for hire at the ski shop in Cooma. I was amazed at how easy they were to put on and walk in. On the downside, the strap wrecked the hard lining inside my Zamberlan bootsThere is now a hard bump which rubs against my little toe in the toe box. Not sure how to fix it...

[north-north-west]

Lovely photos. Sounds like an amazing trip. I almost started the weekend at Guthega for the Disappointment Spur circuit, but thought it might be a bit much as I'm a trifle unfit right now.

[LeftRightShoot]

Gday,

Im doing a similar route starting 2 Aug for 5 days... From Gungartan we are going to the brassy mountains via Tin Hut. Then west across Valentine Creek and on to Kerries Ridge to Schlink Hut.

Any advice on crossing Valentines Creek? Im assuming there are plenty of snow bridges... especially with the recent dumps down that way.

Looking forward to it. Hope we get some clear days!

c.

[Tony]

Gday,

Im doing a similar route starting 2 Aug for 5 days... From Gungartan we are going to the brassy mountains via Tin Hut. Then west across Valentine Creek and on to Kerries Ridge to Schlink Hut.

Any advice on crossing Valentines Creek? Im assuming there are plenty of snow bridges... especially with the recent dumps down that way.

Looking forward to it. Hope we get some clear days!

c.

Hi cnschulz,

The crossing of Valentines on the route to Tin Hut from Mt Gungartan is not usually a problem as it is quite small up that high, the times I have been in that area in winter the snow has completely covered the upper reaches of Valentines creek.

Tony

[LeftRightShoot]

cool. thanks!

[ninjapuppet]

With the current gale force warnings in the Snowies right now, a guy from my club went up there to camp at the Blue lake this morning with this "bomb-proof" Mountain Designs Ridge tent. I havent seen it but apparently its got 9.5mm poles, but they snapped like twigs and the tent parachuted away with $2k worth of gear.

Mike, if you're reading this, I warned ya!

When theres gale force warnings, be prepared to adbandon trips guys! Even if you've planned ages for it and had to take leave.

[DarrenM]

Sage advice Ninja! Hope they returned safely despite the gear loss. I've had similar close calls when simply getting out of the tent just to shovel snow. The instant there is no weight to hold it down despite having good snow walls, it wants to lift.

In windy conditions I make sure I put enough snow on the edges of the tent (depending which tent) to stop lift. The problem though, is if there are large amounts of snow being deposited against the tent its easy to put the shovel through it (damaged 2 already) during a storm. I rarely leave a tent up while riding unless I know the weather will be good for the day. Things can get gnarly very quickly eh?