Hard day walks around sydney

[ninjapuppet]

This year's studying is really deconditioning me as I'm constantly getting smashed with assignments, exams, tests, quizzes, etc etc etc...
Planning an overseas high altitude trip next year and I have to seriously get my act together. Joined a gym and bought a bike, but i'm finding it real boring compared to doing hard day walks.

Have been carrying 30kg packs up the east side of Mt soitary and back in a day which is a 1600m climb all up according to the GPS. Its great scenery there but was hoping if anyone else had ideas for other walks closeby to sydney which involve 1000m+ climbs in a day.

just looking for variety

[Bluegum Mic]

I think the crosslands to berowra waters is about 1000m of climb (including the up and the down). I walk there and back (around 14km) for a good leg burn. I think berowra to Cowan is around 1600m. I'm doing it this weekend so I'll let you know. If I'm ever doing training walks for a long walk I tend to also come down Steward St fire trail in hornsby heights (park at the end of Steward St which is off carrington- first left off galston rd) across the military bridge up the other side to Tunks reserve. Follow the GNW and drop down to the galston gorge and back again. That walk is all pain and no pleasure. The drop down into the gorge is 500m of rock scramble and rung ladders so there's 1000m right there. The Steward street side of the fire trail is very steep in sections. A lot of trail runners and mtb riders train there.

[johnw]

Yes, a pity we don't really have any big climbs near suburbia. There's a bit of up and down on/off parts of the coast track and around RNP but a lot of repetition would be needed. OK, so here's an opportunity to think up some really evil walks . I haven't checked the actual gains on these ideas.

Assuming no car shuffling - probably around the Grose is the best bet for maximum altitude gains.
How about Perrys > Blue Gum Forest > Du Faurs Head and back (or vice versa). Should be good for at least 1200m I think. Pierces Pass > Top of Victoria Falls track and back? Various combinations using Grand Canyon, Horse Track, Govetts Leap track etc.

Mostly on FT but but maybe from Winmalee via Blue Gum Creek up to Grose Head South and beyond. I remember going over GHS and the FT appeared to be continuing down to the Grose on the other side. Down and back?

Descend Glenbrook Gorge and climb up to Tunnel View Lookout then return? I've sometimes continued on through Euroka and down to the Nepean R and back.

Around Bungonia area, Long Point and Badgerys Spur. Various combinations possible using both on and off track options.

[michael_p]

Try some of the walks down into the Grose Valley.

I've been told of people doing Lockleys Pylon to Govetts Leap via Blue Gum Forest and return in a day.

[ninjapuppet]

Thanks for suggestions, much appreciated!
yeh, ive done that lockley's pylon-govetts leap return years ago, its a very nice walk and I'll try it again soon.

I'm not really one to repeat going up and down the giant stairways back and forth. Its very effective, but I would rather do a more scenic walk while getting fit.

[flatfoot]

A nice quick one (but a bit out of the way) is a return walk from Pierces Pass down to the Grose River. That's also in pretty good shade for most of the route. My best time from the river back up to the carpark is 43 minutes. Look out for the mango-coloured red-triangle slugs on this walk! I've seen them a number of times at the mouth of the pass. They're pretty easy to spot!

[wildwalks]

1000m+ climbs in a day.
just looking for variety

Hi ya Ninjapuppet
Far from a complete list, but here are some more walks with more than 1000m climbs
http://www.wildwalks.com/bushwalking/general/search-for-a-bushwalking-track.html?min_climb=1000&max_climb=1500&items_per_page=100&outputtype=std
In the advanced search tab you can play with min and max climb values and a few other bits

Hope that helps
Don't forget to stop and smell the Boronia

Matt

[tom_brennan]

I'm a bit dubious of some of these walks, where the biggest climb/descent is only around 200m, having a total climb of > 1000m. Seems like measurement error to me. Like Crosslands to Berowra Waters - it's really only got one climb of about 170m, so I'm mystified as to how that translates into 1000m return!

How far are you prepared to travel. Essentially any descent to the major rivers in the Bluies will get you 400m+. Wild Dogs is another area not mentioned -eg Carlons - Breakfast Creek - Cattle Dog Ridge - Knights Deck - Blue Dog - Coxs River - Ironmonger Spur is a solid day.

[wildwalks]

Like Crosslands to Berowra Waters - it's really only got one climb of about 170m, so I'm mystified as to how that translates into 1000m return!

Hi Tom
Some good extra walk ideas there.
Fair call been dubious with the 1000m climbs. They are big numbers.
Traditionally bushwalking books have walk climbs in many various ways, some as the altitude change from start to end, some as the sum of all major climbs. There is little consistency
I decided to use a cumulative climb figure. So every time you step up one meter that is counted. So if you walk up 10m then down 50m then up 10m that is counted as a climb of 20m.
So every little up on this terrain profile is summed up

And because it is a return walk, the same is done in reverse.
One thing I have not done as well as I could have is to implement a standard sampling distance. This has been a little random to date. I plan to implement a standard 25m sample rate in time, but still testing this.
Hope that makes sense.
This is partly why I include these graphs to give a sense of how much of the walk is steep up and down.

If there are any better ways of representing this climb information, I am very interested, I know this ain't perfect.
Matt

[tom_brennan]

What do you measure the up and down with? It seems like you must have something very accurate.

I've so far used a simple bottom to top measurement for walks on my site, on the grounds that it was simple and easy to understand. But I've gone off it a bit recently. It can be pretty inaccurate for undulating walks and walks with many reasonable climbs. I might change to a sum of major climbs system. It's a bit more subjective, but you have to ask what the measurement is trying to achieve. In my mind the number is simply one of the difficulty factors - the higher, the harder (depending on your propensity for hills!). I think the sum of major climbs is probably the best representation of that difficulty.

[wildwalks]

Hi Tom

What do you measure the up and down with? It seems like you must have something very accurate.

I use a high res digital terrain model to check the heights against. This allows my server to effectively look at a very detailed topo map and count the changes.
(I believe that Google now provides a similar web service, although the terrain model is not as high res, but will probably work fine for the longer walks that you do).

It can be pretty inaccurate for undulating walks and walks with many reasonable climbs.

Yep, it is hard to find something that works well for all walks, but I think consistency is king here.

but you have to ask what the measurement is trying to achieve. In my mind the number is simply one of the difficulty factors - the higher, the harder

Absolutely, this is in my view the holy grail for people like us who communicate info about bushwalks. People always ask, how hard is it??? And gee that is a tough questions to answer.
I use the AS 2156.1 for grading all the walks, It is a national standard, but I am not sure how helpful it is.
The project below is yet another stab at it, (Although it looks good on the surface, it is not a good solution IMHO).
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/recreation-and-tourism/australian-walking-track-grading-system

I like the two phase grading approach like you have used, sweat and skill factors. I pushed for this approach with the above project but did not get far with that.
I think we could measure the sweat factor in a reliable way using a mix of the terrain (surface type) and hills, but there is some research that needs to be done here.

Do you want to grab a Hot Chocolate one day and chat more??

Matt

[DarrenM]

Ninja, try Cowan to Thornleigh - station to station. Anything around 5 hours and your doing well.

[Bluegum Mic]

Funnily enough I'm doing that exact walk this weekend in reverse (as an overnighter Mind you I'm more going for the meander and a spot of fishing on Saturday arvo/evening with a nice brunch at berowra waters on Sunday. So 5 hours no. Enjoyable definitely

[DarrenM]

Much more enjoyable as an overnighter Bluegum Mic! Enjoy the walk.

[Vern]

Here's some ideas to throw at ya as alternatives to Sydney which is about as flat as flat can get:

Bungonia which has some great walks if you're after conditioning. It take about as long to get there from Sydney as it does to get to Katoomba. Maybe Starlights trail at Hill Top? Or there's a circuit walk at Welby near Mittagong. I can't remember the name of it but it has a STEEP climb on the way out as it follows the old mining cable back up.

Out of interest where are you heading for your high altitude walk?

[johnw]

Or there's a circuit walk at Welby near Mittagong. I can't remember the name of it but it has a STEEP climb on the way out as it follows the old mining cable back up.

The usual circuit for me is Welby track head > Forty Foot Falls > Claude Lee Pass (Nattai R.) > The Incline > Boxvale Tramway track. I posted a couple of photos from that walk in the "where is" game recently:
Boxvale Incline
Old railway tunnel on Boxvale track

[rough60]

We were jogging this leading up to Trailwalker, it's pretty tough.
Park at Berowra, catch train to Hawkesbury station, follow Great North Walk back through Cowan, Berowra Waters, climb up to Berowra, Turn down to crosslands then break off GNW and head up Mt Kuring-gai link track (starts at long bridge), cross over to Kuring-gai NP, head down to cowan creek, turn left at the bottom (right goes to apple tree bay) follow around and climb back up to Berowra station.
This should get you around 40km's and a good 10hrs of pretty hard walking
Cheers