Is your Club Size Diminishing and your Membership Ageing?

[jez_au]

gen-x or gen-y references. Do we mean to say all people in a ten-year-or-so age bracket are the same? Really?

No, but these labels are broad labels that help us understand how people from other generations tend to think. We are somewhat a product of the times we grew up in. I'm Gen X, I left school and trained in architecture at the height of a recession, there were no jobs and our parents that had had lifetime jobs were losing them. This influences how one and how one's generation thinks. We're typically cynics, emphasizing relationships over formal structure. As teenagers the internet was just emerging in the mainstream. Gen Y are more happy-go-lucky, their world was one of great opportunity and they expected to be well rewarded for it, typically they are the buy-now-pay-later generation. They are high-tech, they grew up with computers and the internet and emerging social media, they've never known a world without the internet. Through the 2008 financial crisis they  learnt, for the first time, to save. They don't like to commit to things, preferring to make last minute plans.

There's plenty on the web about it. It is useful to understand how other people might think (baby boomers too), especially in a club, and also if a club wants to fill missing age gaps, this can be the key to understanding what those missing ppl are looking for, if anything, in a club.

[Bush Walker]

Thanks oyster

Firstly, I am not find of gen-x or gen-y references. Do we mean to say all people in a ten-year-or-so age bracket are the same? Really?......In terms of clubs, it's forums like this that are the new clubs.

jez_au has told us why Gen X, Gen Y and baby boomers are useful terms because they not only specify an age range but also set the context, just like referring to a bushwalker as an ultra-lighter gives us lots of additional information. These age groups tend to have certain characteristics in common, but there are many exceptions to any generalisation, just as giving the same characteristics to all retired persons would be risky.

I agree with you that social media such as forums are the new clubs for some, but once again most people prefer face -to-face as a way of developing deeper relationships. I think that there is an opportunity for 'Clubs" to benefit from both type of networking.

[Bush Walker]

I have never felt the need or desire to be in a bushwalking club, but prefer instead to walk with a few like minded people when and where we want. I do walk with a group (the Strollers) quite often and enjoy the company of the dozen or so others in the group but we are not a club. We are just a bunch of folk with a common interest and sufficient skills to tackle most walks. We do plan our strolls but do it through this forum and pm's but are too widely spaced for physical get togethers other than our trips. We have done this since the forum was a pup and it works well for us. I believe there is at least one other similar group on the forum.
The age of Strollers ranges from 26 to 66 with a fair spread in betwwen. The physical capabilities do vary as would be expected but all seem to be accomodated without too much disruption.

Thanks flyfisher.

I think your description has described a Club ie a group of like minded people!

I think you may be assuming that all "Clubs " have hierarchical structure with office bearers and only operate in a very structured manner. You only need to visit the facebook pages of some of the Clubs I have listed to see that they operate no differently than your Strollers.

[davidmorr]

These age groups tend to have certain characteristics in common, but there are many exceptions to any generalisation, just as giving the same characteristics to all retired persons would be risky.

I would venture to suggest that bushwalkers are an exception to generalisations about Australians. The vast majority of the population has no idea what we do or why we do it.

Another thread provides figures on the number of bushwalkers in the population - a very low percentage. Can we expect any subset of the population (such as Gen-X, etc) to have a higher level of interest?

This leaves an interesting question about "marketing" bushwalking:

Should we target our efforts at the mass population or seek out the exceptions, to maximise the return for the effort expended?

And would anything be gained by focussing only on a subset (eg, Gen-X, etc) of the exceptions, given that exceptions are a very small number anyway?

[Bush Walker]

Thanks Davidmorr for raising this predicament.

This leaves an interesting question about "marketing" bushwalking:
Should we target our efforts at the mass population or seek out the exceptions, to maximise the return for the effort expended?
And would anything be gained by focussing only on a subset (eg, Gen-X, etc) of the exceptions, given that exceptions are a very small number anyway?

To maximise the number of new members, it would seem that targeting the largest group 45-54 yo would would be more productive. However in 10 years time this group will be 55-64 yo, do we want to continue to target this cohort; the most frequent?

I think we need to target both. The older to maintain club numbers and the younger to allow succession and sustainability.

[Bush Walker]

I'd like to thank the large number of forum members (40+), who have spent time and, in some cases a significant amount, to contribute to the discussion we are having about the ageing of bushwalking clubs and the possible solutions. I also appreciate the contributions from those who are not club members, but have still made useful comments.

There are three other active threads, one of which contain polls, to which you might like to contribute.

Does your Club need more Gen X & Gen Y members? [21/339]
How Does Your Club Use Social Media? VOTE IN THE POLL POLL [10/216]
Bushwalking Clubs: the good, bad and the ugly [6/171]

Over this weekend I intend to spend some time looking back over these and will place some sort of summary on the wiki including the graphs, under clubs.

If you have not already "voted" in either of the polls, please do so as the data is fairly scarce at the moment.

[davidmorr]

To maximise the number of new members, it would seem that targeting the largest group 45-54 yo would would be more productive. However in 10 years time this group will be 55-64 yo, do we want to continue to target this cohort; the most frequent?

Let's look at where new club members come from now. Many of them have got rid of their kids and and are searching around for things to do. Many are also singles. And they are looking for several things: some want exercise, some want adventure, and some want company, socialising, travel, etc.

In 10 years time, won't that same age group be looking for the same things?

So, we should still be targetting the 45-54 (and maybe 35-44) group. These people will also have less hangups about the perceived age difference. This will ensure a continual renewal of the membership with "younger" people, even if they are not physically "young".

[Bush Walker]

[
In 10 years time, won't that same age group be looking for the same things?

So, we should still be targetting the 45-54 (and maybe 35-44) group. These people will also have less hangups about the perceived age difference. This will ensure a continual renewal of the membership with "younger" people, even if they are not physically "young".

The problem will be that this age group in 10 years time will be much smaller as there is a bulge in numbers at the moment. That is likely to mean that Clubs will get smaller if they only recruit from this age group,unless of course they get better at it.

[davidmorr]

The problem will be that this age group in 10 years time will be much smaller as there is a bulge in numbers at the moment. That is likely to mean that Clubs will get smaller if they only recruit from this age group,unless of course they get better at it.

Smaller should not be a problem unless they get too small. Basically any group who takes it membership from a band of the general population will have its size vary with the population. So a club with 200 members might go down to 170 or 180. A club with 50 members might go down to 45. Neither is a significant loss.

We also have to remember that generations after the baby boomers will be fitter and healthier than the baby boomers at the same age. There will therefore be more people able to participate in active pursuits like bushwalking.

[Jellybean]

In line with the earlier comments in this thread about personality and compatibility, I suspect that the manner in which one attempts to introduce new initiatives will have a significant influence on their uptake!

Very true. Change initiators need unlimited patience to slowly win everyone over!

With all due respect, if the manner in which you attempt to introduce new initiatives is incompatible with the goals of the members (or their reason for being involved) it doesn't matter how slowly or quickly you attempt to initiate them. They are unlikely to be successful because you have failed to recognise and accommodate their needs. For example, if the reason members get involved is to escape the boundaries of daily life and re-charge their batteries and you attempt to control and over-analyse everything, then you are unlikely to win them over because you are obstructing that and just imposing your own needs on others. Just let people be. Everyone is different.

[flyfisher]

Good post JB. Hard to get through to some.

[Bush Walker]

Everyone is different.

Too true.

[Bush Walker]

There is a new thread to help us get some more information about Forum members and perhaps put our discussions in context.

POLL: Your Age Range and Years of Club Membership.

You don't need to give your exact age and can vote anonymously, so give it a go!

[ULWalkingPhil]

I've put my vote in, and was surprised to see that the no answer was out in front, My local bushwalking club is certainly in the category of members getting older and club slowly diminishing. at 46 i'm the youngest member in the club, there two other members slightly older than myself, one we are lucky to see once a year, mainly because of the lack of fitness of most club members as his into extreme bushwalking. Nearly all our club members are now of pension age. We often wonder what's going to happen to our club in the future if we don't get new younger members, my guess is it's going to die a slow death.

I've spoken to club members from the sunshine coast and brisbane and they are going through the same situation as we are here. hence why I'm surprised with the figures in the poll. Maybe a lot of you's from the major cities down south are not in such a dire situation as we are.

[flyfisher]

21 votes demonstrates the lack of interest in this type of poll .

Considering that there have been 194 replies, and the poll has been running since 18th of December, looks like a lot more interest in forums than polls.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Problem with clubs in my personal opinion, I've been involved with a few over the years, not only bushwalking clubs, is there's always at least that one stupid member (trouble maker) that wants to spoil it for all the others, sadly some are running the clubs. Most want to join clubs to get away from all the $$%## that happens in life, unfortunately some clubs are worse than life experiences in general. I've met some of the biggest $%%$# in clubs. Thank god none are in the Bushwalking clubs I'm involved in. Bushwalking clubs does appear to bring out the best in people, the tire kickers, troublemakers etc, what ever you want to call them, are to lazy to get of there backside and walk. which is a huge benefit to us. at least here where I live.

My main interest these days are extended overnight walks, but the club here has not shown much interest, Can't blame them, most members here would struggle to carry a backpack due to there age. In saying that, there is one member here, his 65 and walks rings around me. I hope I'm as fit as this guy in 20 years time. He does not like hiking overnight. I've tried converting him but to no avail.

It's got me out doing more solo overnight hikes and I'm having the best time ever. I can do what I want when I want.

[flyfisher]

Good post Phillisart, we have a happy little bunch of forum members who organise walks between ourselves and we don't have any of the type you mentioned.
Angling clubs tend to be the same, (from my experience) with a few that don't want to help anybody, but want to spend all the meeting proposing amendments to the constitution and so on.
My wife and I are members of ALROCT, southern branch, and the meetings are delightfull with a mix of past happenings and planning future trips.Although many are retired people, they are friendly and helpfull to all, especially new members. They usually last an hour or so, then supper ($1) and chit chat, then sometimes a slide session etc. Interesting meetings, not boring.
Any club that wants to get and keep new members of any age needs to be friendly and concentrate on the core interest of people who come along, that is bushwalking. Keep all the piliticing for the old grouches who often graduate to that department.
And tomorrow I'm off on an overnighter solo to do what I like and that is to get out there and just DO it.
Just my 7 cents worth.

Flyfisher.

[davidmorr]

My main interest these days are extended overnight walks, but the club here has not shown much interest, Can't blame them, most members here would struggle to carry a backpack due to there age. In saying that, there is one member here, his 65 and walks rings around me. I hope I'm as fit as this guy in 20 years time. He does not like hiking overnight. I've tried converting him but to no avail.

It's got me out doing more solo overnight hikes and I'm having the best time ever. I can do what I want when I want.

Let me ask, Phillipsart, what your club(s) do to recruit new members? Do they get things in the community noticeboard of the local paper/TV/radio station? Do they put posters or programs in local libraries, shops, doctors' surgeries? Do they have a stall at a local fair or market to spread the word?

If they are not doing things like this, then no wonder there are no younger (ie, middle-aged) people and no-one to go out overnight with you.

Let me also ask, Phillipsart, have you held any positions in the club where you might be able to influence what happens? If you just stay in the background bitching about the people who are putting themselves out to run the club, then you have only yourself to blame.

The power to instigate change is in *your* hands - by participating, gaining people's respect, contributing to the club and helping to build up the membership.

[ULWalkingPhil]

My main interest these days are extended overnight walks, but the club here has not shown much interest, Can't blame them, most members here would struggle to carry a backpack due to there age. In saying that, there is one member here, his 65 and walks rings around me. I hope I'm as fit as this guy in 20 years time. He does not like hiking overnight. I've tried converting him but to no avail.

It's got me out doing more solo overnight hikes and I'm having the best time ever. I can do what I want when I want.

Let me ask, Phillipsart, what your club(s) do to recruit new members? Do they get things in the community noticeboard of the local paper/TV/radio station? Do they put posters or programs in local libraries, shops, doctors' surgeries? Do they have a stall at a local fair or market to spread the word?

If they are not doing things like this, then no wonder there are no younger (ie, middle-aged) people and no-one to go out overnight with you.

Let me also ask, Phillipsart, have you held any positions in the club where you might be able to influence what happens? If you just stay in the background bitching about the people who are putting themselves out to run the club, then you have only yourself to blame.

The power to instigate change is in *your* hands - by participating, gaining people's respect, contributing to the club and helping to build up the membership.

Yes to all the above except for TV/Radio.
I'm currently vice president. I've organized many overnight hikes with little to no interest.
I don't know what more we can do. We do advertise and have a Facebook page as well our own website, which has not been updated in some time. I'm going to ask the club if I can take over the running of the clubs website at the next meeting so I can keep it updated.
We walk every two weeks, most of our hikes are off track.
Young people here where I live are not much interested in bushwalking. I don't live in a very high populated area.

Don't get me wrong. The club is in a healthy position at the moment. It's just where concerned for the future of the club, as most of our members are aging. In the one year since I've joined the club I've only seen 3 new members.

[Bush Walker]

Thanks for elaborating on your Club's predicament, which is typical of many clubs as the baby boomers move through and fail to be replaced by younger Gen X's and Y's.

It's just where [we are] concerned for the future of the club, as most of our members are aging. In the one year since I've joined the club I've only seen 3 new members.

I am sure you already know this but a website which is stagnant is a sign of a stagnant club and a poor advert.

You might be better setting up a blog which is easier to update and can be done by anyone in the club without any special skills but better still is a Facebook page. Many Clubs are using their Facebook pages for the same purpose, and these are even easier to maintain eg those of the Sydney and Launceston bush walkers. These serve the same purpose as a website with photo gallery, notice of meetings, notices about walks, documents but the advantage is that everyone in the club can contribute by simply becoming a member of the Clubs Facebook group.These can be private too, for walk planning that you don't want everyone to know.

In another post Setting up a Facebook page for your Club I quoted from a Rotary website.

We strongly advocate that a Club or District establish their public presence on Facebook as a “Page“, and should you choose to create a private internal discussion hub, that would be a “Group“.

Good advice.

[mikethepike]

In terms of clubs attracting younger members, I was just thinking about my own now grown up kids and though all are involved in outdoor pursuits of one sort or another and two have done bushwalking, there's no way that I can see any of them being attracted to a club of predominantly aging baby boomers. I've bushwalked fairly extensively with one of my lads and I would feel a bit alarmed for his own sake if he joined and maintained an interest in a bushwalking club, well mine anyway. Where are his own friends? I would ask. I just know from them and their friends that they just don't have time for all the stuff that clubs involve themselves with. They would think that a full day spent bushwalking is a terrible way to spend time. For fitness they'd prefer a run or a 2 hour bike ride. And they are too busy with other things including weekend self employment or other interests. I also just don't think that it is possible for a club with an older demographic to be able to make itself attractive to young people. But does it matter? Membership of some clubs might be falling but that belies the big increase in the number of bushwalkers in general. You just have to look at the huge increase in retail outlets catering for bushwalking compared with 40 years ago. If a club is concerned about falling membership, it should possibly be more concerned if it isn't attractive to older people including experienced walkers who join the club, rather than be over concerned about attracting younger people.

[Son of a Beach]

better still is a Facebook page. Many Clubs are using their Facebook pages for the same purpose, and these are even easier to maintain eg those of the Sydney and Launceston bush walkers. These serve the same purpose as a website with photo gallery, notice of meetings, notices about walks, documents but the advantage is that everyone in the club can contribute by simply becoming a member of the Clubs Facebook group.These can be private too, for walk planning that you don't want everyone to know.

Facebook is certainly good for communicating with younger people, but be wary of making it your primary web site. It requires people to actually have a Facebook account to use it properly, and there are some people who dislike Facebook and refuse to have an account, or to have an active account (no need to go into the reasons here).

[Bush Walker]

Facebook is certainly good for communicating with younger people, but be wary of making it your primary web site. It requires people to actually have a Facebook account to use it properly, and there are some people who dislike Facebook and refuse to have an account, or to have an active account (no need to go into the reasons here).

Can't disagree with anything you have said Son of a Beach, but "times are a changin". Very soon few Club newsletters will be posted with most downloaded, memberships renewals will only be done online and walks arranged via the web. People will become familiar with belonging to online groups and the fear of becoming a FB member, or the equivalent will disappear .

Latest statistics show that:

59% of those who go online have a Facebook page, while 47% of the total Australian population have one
the greatest growth and age group with the most FB members (26%) is 25-34 years, which should be the target group for most Club recruiters

I, too, refused to have a FB page until recently because of fears of privacy invasion and a dislike of their ethics, but it is no longer difficult to safeguard your privacy as FB has now made the privacy settings easier to use, and you can use a one-off email account, someone else's birthday, minimal location details and a pseudonym, so your identity can't be stolen. You don't have to have a profile, share with friends or even use your "wall". You can use FB to your own advantage!

Those Clubs who don't want to have a FB page and still want an interactive experience could take up Son of a Beach's offer to have a public or private Club forum on Bushwalk Australia

PS Google + is another alternative to FB and has some features which are better especially if you are a keen photographer and want a gallery. It is having a significant impact on FB, with FB numbers dropping in the last 6 months.

[Son of a Beach]

There are other reasons to not be a member of Facebook, and the majority of the advantages can be had by utilising other online technologies. However, I do agree with you. You can cover about 80% of people (guessing here) by using Facebook, and the number is growing.

[Bush Walker]

If a club is concerned about falling membership, it should possibly be more concerned if it isn't attractive to older people including experienced walkers who join the club, rather than be over concerned about attracting younger people.

This is an interesting perspective. Should we bother at all about attracting younger people to our bushwalking clubs? What would be the consequences?

I fear that Clubs as we know them will disappear and people wanting to walk in a group will arrange do so using other means such as are already available: forums, FB, Google +, MeetingUp etc

[Marshall]

Our club is definitely aging . Although our membership numbers remain fairly constant I am extremely disappointed to notice that older members who want hactivities are leaving and being replaced by those who are content with very easy walks and activities.

[north-north-west]

I'm female and, therefore, don't have a 'club'. But I believe there are sound medical reasons for age-related diminuition of such things.

[wayno]

Our club is definitely aging . Although our membership numbers remain fairly constant I am extremely disappointed to notice that older members who want activities are leaving and being replaced by those who are content with very easy walks and activities.

yes, the veteran members can often leave younger ones in their dust, a lot of people come into clubs i've been involved in and thing the level of activity is too hard for them... instead of being a motivation seeing whats possible, it's a disinsentive, although i look at the older people and think well if they can do that at their age I should at least be doing that at my younger age
but also not all clubs cater for people starting out,, these older people have often developed their fitness at a younger age when they didnt have an option about getting about, they ran or walked or cycled everywhre, it was a natural thing to travel for miles under their own steam over whatever terrain especially if they were raised in the country , now a lot of young ones take transport to get around, they havent developed the strength and fitness, they arent used to or comfortable with strenuous exercise, they gravitate to walking because they dont like more strenuous exercise, the ones who like hard exercise in the wilderness have gone to other disciplines like mountain biking, multisport, adventure racing and just given bush walking a miss unless it's to introduce their kids to the wilderness, or get away with their partner....