How much food weight per day do you carry for a long walk

[Moondog55]

Technical term is Sous-vide "under vacuum" a term also used to describe long slow cooking in sealed retort bags.
Cryovac have a lot of the market covered, especially in the meat trades but also your local supermarket.

[bernieq]

Also, Bernieq, re your dried homus, do you mean you grind the dried slab into a powder?

Yes, Phil S, as a powder it rehydrates instantly (an asset at lunchtime) but you have to be careful with the quantity of water – a small excess leaves you with a drink, not a spread :)
I use a mortar and pestle – easy and quite quick.

BTW, sorry about the tardy reply.

[tom_brennan]

For a recent 19 day trip in the Kimberley, I had 11kg of food (though I added a fresh banana, apple and cheese at the last minute, and that also included 2 x 350ml of port). If I remove the port, but add the cheese and the equivalent dry weight of the apple/banana, I get 588 gm/day (18 "full" days), including packaging. We were doing group dinners, so less wastage and packaging than individual meals. I'd say I lost about a kilo of weight over the period. I had plenty of snacks and a couple of lunches left over which I didn't feel like eating. I certainly wasn't hungry. Of course, the nature of the climate up there means it's not really possible to do long hard days - it just gets too hot.

[ULWalkingPhil]

500 grams per day for me.

[climberman]

Could I ask for a breakdown of meals and grams and kJ for folks with a low weight ? Interested in what I can learn from 500-600 grammers !

[ULWalkingPhil]

Could I ask for a breakdown of meals and grams and kJ for folks with a low weight ? Interested in what I can learn from 500-600 grammers !

Practically I dehydrate almost all my food. Pasta, rice, chinese meals, bananas, tomatoes etc.

[Tortoise]

I expect you don't take stuff you can't dry then. I do enjoy some nuts, seeds & chockie - but it probably costs me that extra 150gm/day... Tough call...

[John Sheridan]

Phillipsart do you do any deydrated curry meals with rice, veggies and or chicken or beef added ???

I just made myself a nice curry and I WANT THAT IN THE BUSH, with a few wraps and a coffee, MIGHTY YUMMY

Cheers.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Phillipsart do you do any deydrated curry meals with rice, veggies and or chicken or beef added ???

I just made myself a nice curry and I WANT THAT IN THE BUSH, with a few wraps and a coffee, MIGHTY YUMMY

Cheers.

hi John,
I'm not one for hot food including curry. But I do dehydrate rice with chicken and veggies. I make sure that all veggies and mince are cut up, well mince is already cut up. I tend to use more mince than chicken, I just don't trust chicken. Be sure to purchase prime quality best mince, my butcher removes all fat from there prime mince.
Cut all veggies after cooking into small pieces no larger than a cm square and most important no fat, remove all fat from meat. Than dehydrate. Works for me.

Pasta I use my own home made pasta made with flour and eggs, I cook it up, making the sauce separately which is simply the purchased sauce for pasta at the groceries, I add mince to that.

I find premium first grade mince is ideal for dehydrating. After dehydrating they look and feel like gravel, but much lighter.

You really have to be careful you don't add to much water when rehydrating other wise you loose the sauce, no taste.

My upcoming trip I've decided to take some of that strive food with me.

A huge pasta meal for one I can dehydrate down to less than 100 grams in weight, and it's a large meal size.

The above works well for me. When I arrive at camp or half hour before I eat I boil up some water add the dehydrated meal and put into my pot cosy for half hour.

In regards to breakfast I like my cereals, I choose cereals that are low in suger, I like to have a big meal in the morning before I start hiking, I measure out upto 140 grams of my cereal into a ziplock bag with powdered milk. In the morning I warm up some water and mix with cereal.

Lunch can be anything from bread to mountain bread, peanut paste, crackers fruit. Peanuts, all depends how long I'm away. For longer trips I take light weight options.

[Moondog55]

Climberman The ratio I was taught at school for quick planning was 2/3 carbohydrate 1/6 protein 1/6 fat all measured by dry weight.
However that needs to be tempered with information about the temperatures involved. Cold weather needs more protein for SDA ( Specific Dynamic Action ) which used to be termed Latent Heat of Metabolisation and simply more killer-joules so more fat if you are trying to keep the weight down.
if water is going to be a problem cutting the protein down can assist; as protein needs a lot of water to metabolise.
The length of the walk becomes very important too. As I have mentioned before trying to cut the carried food weight can work as we usually have a spare tyre we can utilise for fuel, but when that fat reserve is gone we need to eat enough to maintain a healthy body mass

[climberman]

Could I ask for a breakdown of meals and grams and kJ for folks with a low weight ? Interested in what I can learn from 500-600 grammers !

Practically I dehydrate almost all my food. Pasta, rice, chinese meals, bananas, tomatoes etc.

Yes, me too. But am interested in what, particularly, people end up with for weights and if they know how many kJ they take ? I'd like around 500g/8000kJ/day but am interested to see if people manage this.

I could take 500g/4000kJ/day easily.. but would be hungry (or drinking oil for each meal) so am interested in the specifics. Lots of low weight answers in this thread seem to give a daily weight or a weekly weight but no breakdown.

Enquiring minds want to know !

[Moondog55]

8000kj per 500 grams ???
8000/38 = 210 grams of butter so doable, I suggest a menu based on dark chocolate ( Army survival ration used to be 2 off 2 * 100gram bars of chocolate)
At only 8000 kj tho you will be assured of loosing body fat on a long walk


http://www.mydr.com.au/tools/basal-energy-calculator

[climberman]

8000kj per 500 grams ???
8000/38 = 210 grams of butter so doable, I suggest a menu based on dark chocolate ( Army survival ration used to be 2 off 2 * 100gram bars of chocolate)
At only 8000 kj tho you will be assured of loosing body fat on a long walk


http://www.mydr.com.au/tools/basal-energy-calculator

Well, I like butter more than oil !

Yeah, it's borderline but I could lose a few kgs given my age and weight and it'd be no problems on a walk of two to six days. No walks longer than that on the horizon for quite some time.

So.... anyone with a low weight want to give a meals/g/kJ breakdown or approximation ?

[Moondog55]

Sorry but I don't plan that way.
Also I like to eat too much to devise a starvation ration.
Anyway for walks of up to a week it really doesn't matter much; so long as it isn't straight sugar cubes or jelly beans

[bernieq]

I'd like around 500g/8000kJ/day but am interested to see if people manage this.

So.... anyone with a low weight want to give a meals/g/kJ breakdown or approximation ?

8,000kJ/day is seriously deficient. Based on Australian Government Dept of Health guidelines, daily kJ energy requirement for a 45yo male at high workload is : 60kg : 13,000 70kg : 14,200 80kg : 15,400. For a female of the same weight and age, subtract 1,800kJ.

Details of my standard food consumption can be read earlier in this thread – 760g/day. This equates to around 14,000 to 15,00kJ.

I like to eat too much to devise a starvation ration.
Anyway for walks of up to a week it really doesn't matter much

Agreed !

[climberman]

So, great.

Tell me how to get 12000kJ/500g/day then ?

Sorry to have worried you all with my low kJ intake...

[Miyata610]

Good question.

I see that a back country roast lamb and veg is only 1552kJ.

Porridge with milk is 720kJ.

A Cadbury brunch bar is 635kJ.

Getting to 4000kJ might be challenging, let alone 8k or 12k.

I think about one litre of whiskey or brandy will get you about 12000kJ.

[Moondog55]

Fats and oils are the most energy dense foods, but they only contain what energy they contain, you can't cram more into a mass of food or do anything to increase the calorie content of food. Energy density is what it is, you need more calories you have to carry more weight, the only way to reduce the weight you carry is to remove water.

[climberman]

Hi bernieq - I like your meals. Interested though to drop weight...

[Miyata610]

Well.......

I just did an actual calculation of my normal boring bush walk daily package of food.

583g 10331kJ protein=88.5g and it's vegetarian

I'm surprised.

[bernieq]

I like your meals. Interested though to drop weight...

Focus on energy dense foods (doh! :) - things like coconut milk, pinenuts, peanut butter (in fact, just about all nuts) as well as meats, rice, pasta and cous-cous. Dried fruit is also reasonably good at around 1100kJ/100g

In addition, eaten throughout the day, is scroggin with more nuts, seeds and various confectionary (eg snakes etc) and, of course, chocolate (although chocolate is not a good mix in the scroggin if the weather is hot)

a back country roast lamb and veg is only 1552kJ.

I was surprised to see such a low kJ figure for BC Roast Lamb, Phil, so I looked it up – and was even more surprised to read that 1552kJ is 18% of the (NZ) recommended daily intake (RDI) = 8620kJ/day. According to the (Aus) tables I have, that’s the RDI for a sedentary 65-70kg 65yo male.

IMO, it's worth making the effort to work out what's best for you. Calculate the daily kJ of the food you take on a long walk and adjust up/down based on how much food you bring back (or how much weight you've lost). Pretty soon, you'll narrow down to what works.

[climberman]

I was surprised to see such a low kJ figure for BC Roast Lamb, Phil, so I looked it up – and was even more surprised to read that 1552kJ is 18% of the (NZ) recommended daily intake (RDI) = 8620kJ/day. According to the (Aus) tables I have, that’s the RDI for a sedentary 65-70kg 65yo male.

Maybe why we're such fat *&%$#!.

CSIRO 'total wellbeing diet' is around 5500kJ/day, and up to around double that for extremely active people (to quote; "hard daily exercise or sports or physical job or hard training (for marathon, triathlon, etc.)" p28, CSIRO, 2005). Note that this is a 'diet' as in not only losing weight, but staying trim.

[Moondog55]

I have been seriously looking for information on the added needs of cold weather; ie: winter above the snow line, and I have found much conflicting information out there.
I usually add several hundred calories ( a thousand k'joules ) to my basic menu in extra chocolate bars for every day in winter and it seems to work for me.
10 days above the snow line at Falls Creek and while I thought I was eating very well my wife tells me she could see my weight loss and my waist is about an inch smaller so I guess I lost 5kg during the 10 days.
even if half that was water I used an extra 250 grams of body fat each day so that really can be taken into account, it is like adding a quarter kilo of butter to each days ration.
My breakfast was ~55grms of rolled oats plus ~25 grams black sugar plus ~25 grams butter
Sweet coffee with milk
Lunch was eaten on the go as Mars bars and snickers ( 1 of each ) plus 2 Uncle Tobys muesli bars
Dinner was typically instant mash, ramen or packet rice with peas and a tin of some sort of processed meat ( Yes Spam ) with added butter.
A full packet of mash/rice (4 portions) same of peas (a full surprise packet for 4 portions) or two packets of ramen , so I was eating a surprising quantity of food, perhaps because I was a little under dressed for the conditions or I was sleeping a little colder than usual?

[tom_brennan]

Yes, me too. But am interested in what, particularly, people end up with for weights and if they know how many kJ they take ? I'd like around 500g/8000kJ/day but am interested to see if people manage this.!

Here's the breakdown from my 19 day trip to the Kimberley. The columns should be fairly self explanatory, except for the Dry Weight Factor. This is where the kJ/100g figure is for non-dried food, but where I am carrying dried food. The factors I have calculated from what goes on the dehydrator to what comes off, so they are pretty accurate.

I have simplified it slightly eg I had a greater variety of dried fruit, just picked an average dinner etc, but I don't think that will have much impact. The kJ/100g figures are either from the packets, or from Food Standards Australia and NZ. The only figure I have any real concern about is the sauce for dinner. FSANZ figures ranged from 400-800kJ/100g for various beef mince stews, and my estimate of dry weight factor is based on a factor of 3.3 for beef and 10 for veges.

Because of the heat, we were walking only around 5 hours/day, and the terrain was fairly flat, though rough in places. No major climbs, and not many long days. But I would say in general that for longer walks, people don't go as hard as they would for a weekend walk, where you're trying to squeeze as much as possible into 2 days.

With some tweaking, you could probably get this up to about 11500kJ at the same weight, but pushing it any higher would probably require some slightly odd meal choices! Also, note no chocolate, as it would have melted in the heat.

[matagi]

I have been seriously looking for information on the added needs of cold weather; ie: winter above the snow line, and I have found much conflicting information out there.
I usually add several hundred calories ( a thousand k'joules ) to my basic menu in extra chocolate bars for every day in winter and it seems to work for me.
10 days above the snow line at Falls Creek and while I thought I was eating very well my wife tells me she could see my weight loss and my waist is about an inch smaller so I guess I lost 5kg during the 10 days.
even if half that was water I used an extra 250 grams of body fat each day so that really can be taken into account, it is like adding a quarter kilo of butter to each days ration.
My breakfast was ~55grms of rolled oats plus ~25 grams black sugar plus ~25 grams butter
Sweet coffee with milk
Lunch was eaten on the go as Mars bars and snickers ( 1 of each ) plus 2 Uncle Tobys muesli bars
Dinner was typically instant mash, ramen or packet rice with peas and a tin of some sort of processed meat ( Yes Spam ) with added butter.
A full packet of mash/rice (4 portions) same of peas (a full surprise packet for 4 portions) or two packets of ramen , so I was eating a surprising quantity of food, perhaps because I was a little under dressed for the conditions or I was sleeping a little colder than usual?

Too much sugar and too many simple carbs - I'm not surprised you lost weight. Your lunch is rubbish.

[Moondog55]

matagi You don't know what you are talking about.
have you ever looked at the protein level of a snickers or mars mar??
I lost weight because I was working so hard in a cold environment, I simply did not eat enough for my situation.
The only "simple" carb in the foods I mentioned are in the mashed potato.

[Miyata610]

I'm not a doctor, but I think a lunch made up largely of sugar might not be ideal.

Aren't sugars simple carbs?

[Miyata610]

matagi You don't know what you are talking about.
have you ever looked at the protein level of a snickers or mars mar??
I lost weight because I was working so hard in a cold environment, I simply did not eat enough for my situation.
The only "simple" carb in the foods I mentioned are in the mashed potato.

Ummmmm. I just did some googling on this topic. It could be that matagi is indeed correct. I think moondog you may have it wrong. It might be worth doing some more research. It seems a little protein is not your savior and empty carbs are just that.

Btw, potatoes are complex carbs... Just what you DO want.

[Miyata610]

A mars bar.....

http://www.calorieking.com.au/foods/cal ... BiYXI.html

Mostly sugar.

Only 1.9g of protein. Almost nothing. My simple lunch above has 14.6g.

[Moondog55]

Wrong, the glyceamic index of mashed potatoes is even lower that that of pure glucose, and the important ingredient ( in cold weather ) in the chocolate is the fat , not the sugar.
When talking about carbs we always differentiate between simple sugars, complex sugars and complex carbs, but some sugars take longer to be digested than others, usually fructose, glucose, then the complex sugars like sucrose then maltose.
BTW black sugar is an acquired taste due to the inherent bitterness but really is a healthy alternative and goes well in strong coffee.
The only important need in winter is sufficient Calories//kilojoules provided there are sufficient amounts of protein in the diet to avoid muscle tissue breakdown.
Your body does not care where the energy comes from as it all needs to be broken down to glucose first, Glycaemic index is important but not at the expense of Caloric needs. I think perhaps an assumption was made that all of the lunch was eaten at once when in fact, like most of us, I nosh all day and consume those calories over the course of a day.