Advice on learning to cross country ski

[mtbarney]

My wife and I have just returned from a snowshoe trip to the Mt twynam area in Kosciusko national park. We have done a five day hike in this area ...Guthega, Main Range circuit......last Decmber. We loved it in summer and wanted to experience snow camping for the first time.
We found the snow shoes easy to use but slow. What captured our attention and captivated us was watching the cross country skiers that we met along the way...This definitely seems to be the way to go in snow.

Any advice on where and how to learn would be greatly appreciated. Neither of us have skiied before. Our main goal is to do what we do in summer.....travel acrosss wonderful country, camp out and have a ball.

I have done some preliminary research.....seems to be a lot of passionate discussion and debate about telemark vs fixed heel. We are not purists , just want to travel at speed (compared to snow shoes) across the snow in winter.

Any useful advice would be greatly appreciated.

[neilmny]

Given that you have done no skiing at all it is going to take some time to gain the skills necessary for back country skiing.
To learn you can't beat lessons from a qualified instructor.
My suggestion is a skiing holiday at Falls Creek in Victoria or at Perisher in NSW with a bunch of cross country lessons attached.
Skiing is a (high?) risk sport and to ski off piste out side of the patrolled area requires the skills and knowledge (experience) to make it safe.

[wander]

There are 4 starting options;

1. Do a bit of reading and buy some touring skis and go and do it. This is how it used to be done but refer to the post above about risks and so on.
2. Take some lessons in Nordic skiing on the trails at Perisher, Wilderness Sports and a mob called K7 and possibly Paddy Pallins offer lessons. Experienced bush walkers should be able to ski tour after some lessons and plan say an overnight only trip to sus out the oddities of snow camping.
3. Or join a club and hook into their people and experience, say Illawong.
4. Consider snow shoes in lieu of skis, slower but less learning curve.

Weather is more important in ski touring than Summer wandering and is the most common cause of issues and requirement for rescue. Study up on weather forecasting and have at least 2 back up plans if the weather deteriorates beyond your forecast expectations.

It is worth thinking about doing your first few ski tours on the Bogong High Plains as there are reliable pole lines which allow you to navigate back out in poor weather and most huts sites have toilets which saves on having to poo tube it.

[justacouch]

Advice on learning to cross country ski

Point them and prey.

Alternatively:
I reckon it's a good idea to hire some kit or pick it up cheap from gumtree (NNN-BC gear can be had second hand for cheap and is suited to backcountry light touring) and see if it's for you before shelling out the big dollars. You might even find second hand kit is good enough.

I have very limited XC experience, but some of it was at the Perisher XC trails and that was a good place to get familiar with the kit. It's not hard on the flat bits, but the skills to make downhill turns with something other than my face are coming more slowly than I'd like.

[climberman]

It sounds as if you'd like to learn how to do cross country (XC) skiing. Follow the advice of wander above I reckon.

[ninjapuppet]

I would recommend joining the nsw Nordic ski club. I learnt to ski with them and they do different trips out to the huts suitable for beginners, intermediate and advanced.

It's only a really small club with around 30-50 people last time I was with them so they would only be too happy to have an extra couple.

[ninjapuppet]

They are very big on telemarking

[mtbarney]

Thanks everybody for your input.

We've already mastered the snow shoes.....we did the ten step program.....take ten steps and you're an expert! lol

Seriously , better than nothing but painfully slow.

Has anyone seen these.....Altai Hok skis, very short fat skis they describe as " Skishoes" or fast shoes.

http://www.altaiskis.com/blog/products/the-hok/

These got great reviews on backpackinglight.com. link below

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin ... gination=1

They seem to bridge the gap between snow shoes and skis and have a much shorter learning curve than conventional skis. They are bound to offend the purists but that has never stopped us before. Would like your thoughts on these ....I was impressed, but what do I know ! lol

[PiniPowPow]

In my opinion, it isn’t too difficult to learn to xc ski. I have taught some snowboarding buddies in a single day. Come down in winter and take some lesson from K7 or Wilderness Sports at the Perisher nordic trails.

To get an idea on what equipment you would want, you could hire and get lessons on all sorts of gear; classic, touring, tele or even alpine touring (lockable heel). You can also try out scaled bases or using skins to climb.

The Altai Hoks look ok. As with most things, its a comprise with glide, learning curve and the terrain you are hoping to access.

Hope that helps a little!

[Tony]

I have done both XC skiing and snowshoeing and I am now solely doing snowshoeing, this winter I did around 100k on snowshoes. I have found that the more I use snowshoes the more efficient at snowshoeing I am becoming.

Check this Jungungal snowshoe trip thread out, we did Mawson Hut to Mt Jagungal and back with an average of 4.3 kph, faster than the XC skiers where doing at the time.

Some advantages of snowshoe travel over XC skiing.
Good in icy conditions
You can climb up and down steep slopes, you can take a more direct route
More stable, I very rarely fall (with XC skiing I was always falling, and I know many XC skiers that have done knees in, and needed knee reconstructions, I have damaged a knee and broken a thumb XC skiing)
Easier to travel through trees
Cheaper, (you can strap any pair of shoes or boots into snow shoes)
Easier to transport

Disadvantages
slower down hill and along flat terrain (depending on conditions, I used to work with a group of ice climbers and on one trip to Blue lake, it was icy, most of the group went on skis but one chose snowshoes, he arrived at Blue Lake in front of all but one skier who had grown up on XC skis)
Not the best in soft snow

Tony

[rcaffin]

In fine sunny weather it can be glorious. When the sun is shining.
Do however remember that, despite what the commercial promotors tell you, sunny weather is an exception. OK, I'm biased, it's just that I've been there too often ...

Skis or snowshoes is a minor question, but snowshoes are MUCH safer when the weather is filthy. We spent one night near Mt Anton with the wind clocking 100 kph for much of the night. For that you need more than a pop-up tent. In the morning visibility up top was ... well, I could just see my feet. We decided to abort the trip, and headed for Guthega. I walked over a big cornice and rode the avalanche. My wife was so cold in the gale that she quickly decided that her only course of action was to jump the cornice, which she did. I am not sure I would have been game!
So go carefully at first, with little footsteps.

One very good option is to book a week at Perisher in a club hut and ski or snowshoe the pole lines. There are plenty of them around there, and they can be fun. Spend a night up Rock Creek in a tent as well.

Cheers

[bailz66]

Recently did a snow shoe trip and am considering x country skiing having done that many years ago.

If I do do some x country skiing next year I think I will strop snow shoes to the back of my back as a fall back option. Ski when the going is easy and walk when the going is tough.

One other suggestion I have for you would be to make sure your navigation skills are up to scratch and have a good quality GPS. We did a 2 day walk and missed a turn in thick fog which added about 4 hours to our walk which was enough for us to have to turn around

[mtbarney]

Good advice Roger, I read your report on your trip ....my wife wouldn't have enjoyed that on bit. We have an excllent 4 season tent....hilleberg nallo3gt....haven't been in anything outrageous yet.
I have done a lot of offshore sailing. I always tell my bushwalking buddies that at least when it blows a gale , the ground doesn't pile up in big waves and try to smash you like it does at sea ! lol
I have done a lot of offshore navigation....you'll probably laugh when I tell you how much navigation gear we carry....2 gps, 2 epirbs...one each...It's not much good if I go over a cliff with the only epirb. I satellite phone.

I am so impressed witn the Altai Hoks....cheaper than snowshoes I have ordered us each a pair. Can't wait to try them...might even get a cheap package to Japan in January ...can't wait till June!

Bailz, thanks for your comment....the Hoks are so light I have been considering that myself. We have msr lightening ascents...fantastic for climbing steep slopes..the heel lifters are fantastic for climbing ....make it a lot easier.

[PiniPowPow]

Just had a thought, I know that you have ordered the hoks but thought other may be interested in this new product. The Mtn Approach System.

http://www.mtnapproach.com/product/

Aimed at snowboarders but may be an option for walkers too. The skis can be folded up when not in use. Wilderness Sports in Jindabyne has a set to hire and I noticed quite a few people out on them this season.