When should a PLB be activated? [split]

[neilmny]

........ it is either easier, cheaper and/or safer to allow people/hikers/experienced/inexperienced or whatever the scope for critical thinking and freedom to make autonomous or group/collective 'in the moment' decisions, based on their immediate and emergent circumstances - right, wrong or otherwise.

So with respect to activating a PLB ............ "grave and imminent danger" is open to your personal interpretation...........

We live in a world of over-triage for the sole purpose of catering for that very small percentage of unexpected outcomes - the outliers (so to speak) that 'don't quite fit' at both ends of the confidence interval.

Not sure what you mean here with respect to activating a PLB but would like to know.

Examples are great, stories are great, discussions are great, but when you follow this particular conversation (whether in a clinical, philosophical or even social context) through to conclusion, you will find EVERY TIME their should be no lists, no criteria, no cut-off's, otherwise people will get hurt and remain hurt...or dead............

Kind of comes back with respect to activating a PLB to ........... "grave and imminent danger" is open to your personal interpretation........

[quicky]

Hey there Neil

Perhaps my point wasn't articulated properly, so thanks for asking for clarification.

Regarding the over-triage comment: From my experiences in all pre-hospital or out-of hospital environments, we have a tendency to (and actually designed to) send the whole cavalry even though the chief complaint or initial concern may appear minor. A mild trauma may be interpreted as exactly that by the layman, however the short and long-term complications that can arise may have significant impact on the rest of that person's life and, if you look further afield, it may even alter their Daily Adjusted Life Years (DALY). However, if that issue were responded to earlier rather than later (from time of incident) by using a PLB and not merely being stoic and 'walking out' etc., such complications could be avoided.

It's certainly not my intention to be argumentative, rather, I'm very supportive of PLB's! I notice that the one-liners provided by emergency organisations etc. regarding activating PLB's (such as the "grave and imminent danger" line) are often interpreted with a considerable degree of negativity or disappointment - there is often mention that these are unclear or vague, however I believe the way we think about this should be turned around. To me, these responses couldn't be clearer. To me, "grave and imminent danger" also includes the concept of uncertainty...which means, if in doubt, activate. Care must be taken by bushwalker/hiker forums to NOT pigeon-hole one's thinking or reduce it to a list or set of criteria...simply because, the concept of over-triage is there for a reason, accounting for all of those complications that occur later (and later in one's life) that cannot be seen at the time of making the decision to set off, or not set off a PLB. Even if you can reach help via 000, I would have no problems in saying that I have activated my PLB to assist in locating the injured person if unable to provide accurate location details.

This conversation can be unpacked a lot more, which when done, leads me to my comment about following it through to conclusion etc.

Agreed, it is totally a matter of interpretation, however the decision to activate should not be made with trepidation, rather, feeling ok and confident that it was the right decision (even if uncertain), and at that time... the only decision.

I hope that made sense...it's hard to engage these sorts of discussions in writing.

Happy and safe hiking.

[neilmny]

Thanks for that quicky, yes that makes it all very clear.........there is a lot of difference in the way people react to issues of personal safety and you don't have to go bush to find it.
I get the sense that you are offering the same type of message that the ambo's offer re stroke and heart attack. I have first hand experience on the heart attack front being clearly
saved by ringing for and ambulance rather than letting my wife drive me to the hospital. I was fortunate enough to have seen the "if you think your having a heart attack call the ambulance"
messages on TV, it definitely saved my life. I was reminded of this several times by the nurses while in hospital during my initial recovery.

I did already get the message that a person should activate their PLB if they perceive they are in "grave and imminent danger" and thank you for reinforcing the message.
I suppose that a lot of people would be reluctant based on the simple message "grave and imminent danger" from AMSA which is probably designed to deter people with a "hair trigger"
from making unecessary calls on rescue services.

Hmmmm I'm waffling a bit.......thanks again.

[Onestepmore]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top Mervyn.
It has been well worth reading and I now have the accidental activation phone number 1800 641 792 on my mobile.

Ditto

I smiled when I read the official advice to ensure you don't try and set your PLB off while in a gully. Sucks if you happen to have fallen into a gully, or are stuck down a canyon etc.

[wayno]

theres nothing to say your signal won't get picked up in a gully but the likelihood of it getting picked up is less, just depends on the geography of the land, how narrow and or deep the gully is.
ideally if an accident happens in a gully and theres someone else with you, get the able bodied person to get to more open ground with the locator beacon...
some locator beacons will test the satellite connection and tell you if it is there. so that will tell you if your signal will be picked up if you set off your beacon..

aparently even cell phones when there is no signal can still register with cell phone towers in some instances, dial 111 and see what happens in an emergency if you dont hav a locator beacon..

[Strider]

dial 111 and see what happens in an emergency if you dont hav a locator beacon..

Not particularly good advice on an Australian based forum Wayno

Reminder: The emergency number in Australia is 000

[wayno]

just seeing if you were awake there,,,,

[tastrax]

Perhaps wayno was referring to the 112 number for mobiles

http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_100575

[wayno]

strider is right, i was thinking of nz's 111 emergency no....

[MrFaulty]

Hi, I am new to this forum, but have been involved in bushwalking for many years.

A little over three years ago I set off a PLB even though no one was in imminent danger. The reason I set it off was due to the fact that we were in a situation where we had to evacuate (canyoning) and a member of the party who had allergies lost her epi pen during the evacuation (we had a very steep climb); it was some hours later that we realised and we had also lost a bottle of water and food. We were unsure of how far we were from the road and it was very late. The point being was that we could have walked to the road in another 5 or 6 hours probably but if the person with the allergies had a reaction (she had also lost her special food in the climb out), she would have been a gonner in half an hour or less, so too late to set off the beacon then.

The westpac medics said it was the easiest rescue they had done due to the beacon and only the year before thay had spent a couple of days looking for a party lost in the same area who didn't have a beacon.

Cheers
Ben