Working B With Blue Mountains NP

[Webguy]

OK, we are organising a working B with Blue Mountains Nat Parks for June 9th.

It is going to be a rather long hard day, so fit willing people need only apply. Sorry, no great 4WD access involved this time and there are going to be some reasonable elevation changes, thankfully, all the heavy stuff is being taken down, not up.

You will get to visit some seldom visited historic tracks on the day....

3 locations are to be sign posted...

* Where Roberts Pass meets Lindeman's Track
* Top of Gladstone Pass near the Fairmont Resort
* 3/4 way down Fern Bower below Solitary Restaurant

We need between 6-10 people to make this happen. Bags of cement weight 20kg each and the signs can weigh that too, if not more. All gear and lunch etc will be provided, but good shoes and old clothes are a good idea.

Please let me know if you are interested.

Sorry for the short notice, the usual people who I do this sort of thing with are not available.

[Grabeach]

Sorry, but at my age, current injuries and level of fitness, I'm doing well to get a 20kg bag of cement from the pallet at Bunnings to the boot of my car.

I'd be interested to know what the signs will say. Perhaps relating to the the condition of Lindemans and Gladstone?

[Webguy]

Grae, that's ok, appreciate the reply.

We could still use a few more hands to make light work.

I'll post some images after the day...

[FatCanyoner]

I'm walking all weekend (long weekend is probably a bad choice for working bee) but keep me in the loop for future ones. I'm sure I know one or two others keen to lug stuff around, especially for worthy causes like giving Lindeman Pass a bit more recognition!

[Strider]

If its all downhill, why not cart it on hand trolleys/wheelbarrows?

[Webguy]

Don't think the stairs and terrain will allow for that sadly. Plus last one we tried a wheelbarrow and it sucked lol.

[Turfa]

I just got a leave pass from the family for the day.....so I'm up for it.

What are the details ?

[Webguy]

Hi. If you are interested, meet at the bottom carpark of the Fairmont resort by 9am tomorrow. My number is 0414 604 853 if you cannot find me. But, I'll be in a blue magna wagon and the NP's vehicle should not be far away. Lunch will be provided, but I suggest gloves at least etc.

Look forward to meeting you tomorrow/.

[Turfa]

No worries... I'm sure I'll recognise you from your profile photo !!!!!!!!!!!

[Webguy]

Exactly, I will try and have the same 42 coffees to replicate that before hand.

[Webguy]

Hopefully that appears. A good day, only 3 signs in as the Ranger did not know a few more were coming. One on the Lindeman track to the west of the base of Roberts Pass, one at the top of Gladstone Pass and another at the top of Copeland Pass. Another working B will be organised soon to do some more of the signs that need to be put in.

[Mark F]

Well done. This sort of cooperation should ultimately lead to the clearing of more of the historic Blue Mountains walking tracks.

[Grabeach]

Certainly not disputing the need for such signs re Lindemans in its current condition, and can imagine situations where bushwalkers could be asked to assist in maintenance of regularly used 'tourist' tracks, but I have difficulty envisaging how this will lead to clearing of neglected tracks such as Bruces Walk. Rather ironic, but I understand efforts to have Lindemans upgraded to tourist standard were thwarted by the inclusion of that area in the BMNP in 1984.

[Turfa]

It was a great day to be wandering around in the bush, and lugging 20kg bags of concrete certainly gave me a new appreciation for all the money I have spent lightening my gear !!!!

It was fascinating to hear first-hand of the perspective of the NPWS (the rangers at least) on the challenges of managing the park. Trying to balance the conflicting requirements of preserving the natural environment while maintaining an appropriate level of access but discouraging people from doing stupid things. Not an easy task at all when you consider the vastly different needs & abilities of the people who use the park !
It was also great to hear the enthusiasm for maintaining access to the historic tracks.

All up a very enjoyable day.

[Webguy]

Hi Grabeach.

I don't believe there are any plans at all to open Lindemans to tourist level walking track, it is meant to star a category 5/6 walking track. The sign we put in, was just past the exit track on Roberts pass, warning people that if they go any further, what to expect etc. Another is yet to be placed at the Leura end, again, warning them of the same etc. They are simply provided to let the average tourist who has wandered off the main track, that going any further they are in for a tough go of it etc.

There are plans to do some work hopefully on the section of Lindeman track where the landslide has obliterated the track near subline point, but, again, not to a tourist level, just enough to show where a suggested walking route is, so that normal foot traffic helps to define it even more.

As for Bruces walk, never done it, I know of it, but, the ranger who I work with has a passion for the older tracks, but whether that is in his area, I do not know, I have a feeling it may be the Glenbrook NP's who I have never worked with, Upper blue mountains only cover as far as Bullaburra.

A couple more signs still need to be put in as yet on another day.

We also put similar warning signs at the top of Copeland and Gladstone passes.

[FatCanyoner]

It's a bit rich to blame NPWS for the fact that Lindemans Pass isn't a formal track. Despite being a century ago, it has never been opened. There have been many things that stopped it: the first was local government infighting, then anti-German sentiment. While I agree it would be great to have NPWS restore it, they have done nothing to reduce access. In fact, access now is still better than it was 40 or 50 years ago, when the track was completely abandoned and left to rot. At least these little warning signs formalise that there is in fact a route here, which hopefully encourages more people to explore it. And the landslip has not prevented access. It is still possible to walk this section of the track. It is challenging, and would certainly never be considered an easy track in its condition, but don't be talked out of a trip because you have heard of the landslip.
As for Bruces Walk, it's most definitely Upper Mountains jurisdiction. The fact that high tension power lines were built roughly along its route is probably part of the reason it's never going to be rebuilt. I also imagine it crosses between NPWS land, council land, and possibly even some easements related to the power lines, which would complicate things. Having Lindemans Pass restored and opened to the public would create a far more popular walk than Bruce's I think.

[jonnosan]

My understanding is Bruce's Walk was created originally to give maintenance access to the power lines, and it's use as a tourist walk, although officially encouraged (hence the formal naming of it) was incidental.

On sunday I am navigator (technically not 'leader') for an SBW walk that will be going down Gladstone and up Copeland. I expect we will have plenty of time to explore and possible lay out (i.e. with pink tape) a route around the landslide, only if we see a route that is likely to 'take' though. From memory the nasty section is about 1KM long, on the eastern side of Sublime Point.

There is already a warning sign at the Leura end of the track, i.e. at the Eastern side of the lower waterfall. But obviously people miss it. The only time I have done the section from Copeland Pass around to Leura, about 20mins from the end (about 2 hrs of daylight remaining) we ran in to some foreign hikers who had done the classic 3 day Mt Solitary traverse, camped at Kedumba, followed the firetrail to the old STP and then got a little confused on the exit fron there and found themselves on the Lindemans heading east. If they hadn't run into us they would probably have had to go all the way around to Roberts before finding a way out. This was before your last working bee, which put the obvious 'this way out' sign in at the STP.

[Grabeach]

The Lands Department had been involved in a number of Blue Mountains track projects up till then, the four Mt York roads, South Hazlebrook water falls and the Six Foot Track come to mind. Headed by Geoff Bates of the BMTA, negotiations were under way for Lands Department involvement in the upgrading of Lindemans Pass. At that point, from what I can gather as part of a deal to get the Fairmont Resort development approved, reserves that contained Lindemans were handed over to the NPWS by the Neville Wran state government. At that point Lands Department involvement ceased. I did not blame the NPWS, the Lands Department simply had access to more funds for such projects at the time. Hence my carefully worded comment stands.

You are correct that access is better now that 40 years ago. However this is primarily due to a huge amount of manual labour done by mostly Jim Smith and Wilf Hilder (who I first met crossing the golf course with McLeod tool in hand heading for Lindemans) finding and clearing the track. Since then there have been sporadic clearing of the track by volunteers. I remember spending five solo days working on Lindemans at one point in the mid 90s. Obviously use of the track by bushwalkers can also contribute, though I think you will find that simply pushing shrubbery out of the way and letting it spring back, does not help much! I do not recall any input from the NPWS back then.

With regard to Bruces, initially tracks were constructed solely to provide access for installing the power line. After this came the idea to construct further tracks to link up with the access tracks, thus creating the tourist walk.

[FatCanyoner]

You've got the history backwards Jonno. Bruce's Walk predates the power lines by quite some time. The power lines maintenance tracks use parts of Bruce's Walk.

Re the landslide, my understanding from people who have done that trip more recently is that there is a clear route through it. (I say clear in the context of anything being clear on Lindeman Pass!)

And if you must tape (I hate the stuff) please don't do this... from further west on Lindeman Pass a couple years back. Between the tape and tin tags it was a visual abomination!

[Grabeach]

Gee Tim, you snuck your last post in while I was editing a typo in mine!

Can't agree with your time line on Bruces Walk (opened 21/11/1931). Jim Smith's research on such things is typically extremely thorough. Perhaps you are confusing the later steel poled power line with the 'Bruces' 1931 wooden poled line?

[FatCanyoner]

Can't agree with your time line on Bruces Walk (opened 21/11/1931). Jim Smith's research on such things is typically extremely thorough. Perhaps you are confusing the later steel poled power line with the 'Bruces' 1931 wooden poled line?

Interesting. It'd been told to me that the more modern steel poled line (built in the 60's) used the route of Bruce's Walk which predated it by several decades. I didn't realise there was an earlier wooden power line through there. My apologies to Jonno!

[Grabeach]

They're both shown on the Katoomba toppo, or they are on my 2nd Ed. anyway. The Bruces wooden ones are marked 66kV. The steel ones further to the north are 132kV.

[FatCanyoner]

They're both shown on the Katoomba toppo, or they are on my 2nd Ed. anyway. The Bruces wooden ones are marked 66kV. The steel ones further to the north are 132kV.

Just looking at the third edition now. There's two sets of 66kV lines, but it must be the northern ones that are Bruces based on where they run (they both start together at Lawson then separate).

[PocketPal2013]

I saw one of those yellow signs at the top of the Horse Track just down from Evans LO on Tuesday. Did a great walk down to Rodriguez Pass,crossed Greaves Creek at the junction of Govetts Creek and picked up the old 1909 track. Blackwall Glen, Edenderry Falls and Hilary Falls were great. Came back up the Horse track. Someone has even cleared some of the top section of the Horse Track!

[johnw]

I saw one of those yellow signs at the top of the Horse Track just down from Evans LO on Tuesday. Did a great walk down to Rodriguez Pass,crossed Greaves Creek at the junction of Govetts Creek and picked up the old 1909 track. Blackwall Glen, Edenderry Falls and Hilary Falls were great. Came back up the Horse track. Someone has even cleared some of the top section of the Horse Track!

Great area, we did a similar walk recently. Down the Horse Track, Blackwall Glen, turned around at Edenderry Falls and returned via Rodriguez Pass/landslide then took the Grand Canyon circuit to Neates Glen then back to Evans LO. I'd been to Hilary Falls previously and estimated we'd be a bit short on time to include them this trip. Well worth the effort to see them though. I too was surprised by the clearing around the top of the Horse Track.

On my current list to do another traverse of the Lindeman Pass since it's been quite a few years since the last one. I'll probably wait until it's relatively warm and dry though. From another occasional NPWS volunteer thanks and well done to everyone who gave up their time for this project. I would have liked to help but unfortunately wasn't free that weekend. And knowing that descent not sure how my time ravaged knees or back would cope with carting 20kg loads down those steps.