[UPDATED] A message from Tasmania Police

[simonm]

I wonder how on earth the incident was turned from a completely innocent situation where the bloke was trying to help someone, into what it did. .

A scared child, and an over-reactive and untrusting society brought about by too many scary movies on TV. Well that's my thoughts.
On the TV front, how often do you turn on prime time TV and find nothing but murder shows... People killing other people, sometimes followed up by the "drama" of a bunch of police work in one form or another...
No wonder society has its problems. And no wonder I don't watch much TV.

This is why we don't have TV. With small kids we just stream shows from our computer which allows us to choose appropriate shows each time with very little advertising. Gotta go because they are asking for another show .

[wayno]

tv hooks people in with addictive emotional content. apparently makes people more receptive to the ads as well.

[Happy Pirate]

To be fair it was pretty easy to jump to bad conclusions due to the description of the man and incident..couldnt have thought it would be something so innocent from the way the police press release went

Considering that our entire society is on paedophile watch; and not as a response to actual threat (which is in continual decline) but as a guaranteed ratings point for the ethical and community-spirit bereft Main Stream Media; I'm surprised a dishevelled person who gestured to (not at) a young girl wasn't lynched on site.

How is this even relevant to bushwalking?
Should we report every "man of dishevelled appearance" we see on on a walking track?
Or just those who" use... hand gestures"

Watch out for unwashed walkers in un-pressed clothing waving hello!

Don't take your children outdoors, its safer to leave them by the TV.
Wilderness is scary (except as a resource) but TV...IS...YOUR...BEST...FRIEND!
(Rupert says so!)
(Don't think - just obey)

Cheers
XXXXX (never know who's watching)

[wayno]

i've come across people doing some disgusting and illegal things in the outdoors in nz in busy areas. reported it to police who acted quickly, none of it made it to even the local news....
it's only been a couple of occasions. but still two too many. both times were on unofficial nudist beaches i was walking through on my walks.
it was nothing to do with children, but could have affected them if they were in the area.

[GPSGuided]

Because anything to do with men and children, people unfortunately expect the worst.

It's certainly an unfortunate side effect of our current social vigilance on children contacts. Lost are our normal and potentially positive interactions b/n adults and children within the society, people and families become more and more isolated and dare not interact outside the bounds. How a few bad eggs can spoil for the rest.

[wayno]

peter ellis was convicted of mollesting children in nz years ago.... he was working at a child day care centre.
although it looked like a witch hunt, he was bisexual and the head cop made a remark about his repugnance of peters sexuality, peter was rough with the kids ad did upset some of them, but the evidence regarding the more extreme claims at the trial was farcical and the cops tried prosecuting all the other staff to no avail. end result in nz since has been a massive drop off in the no of males working in childhood education at all levels...

[simonm]

Because anything to do with men and children, people unfortunately expect the worst.

It's certainly an unfortunate side effect of our current social vigilance on children contacts. Lost are our normal and potentially positive interactions b/n adults and children within the society, people and families become more and more isolated and dare not interact outside the bounds. How a few bad eggs can spoil for the rest.

True. There is a distinct negative to the over-vigilance of which I am also guilty because I have heard too much. The risk though is massive for not being vigilant - there is no more effective way to profoundly impact on a person's well-being then exposure to abuse (physical, sexual, emotional, psychological) as a child. The results are pervasive and life long. It is the saddest thing I have been exposed to in my life, that is, hearing the stories and seeing the impact.

[perfectlydark]

Agree with all the above. As a parent of 2 younguns im guitly too admittedly of probably being too overprotective in this sense. Im not advocating locking them inside cause of the big bad world out there but if there was somethibg I could do to prevent an actual perp getting anywhere near my kids then damn right ill be making sure all I can do is done.

[GPSGuided]

As a parent of 2 younguns...

Similarly having seen been through 13 years so far with my son, I have taken the view that rather than barricading him in, I would venture out more and try to observe more of his environment. I think much of the risks out there can be alleviated by increased parental supervision and intervention. If there's an oddity, then just ask and talk and interface. Chances are, it's all a mis-understanding. There are far more nice adult strangers out there for a child to learn from than what's being portrayed in the media and teachers' handbooks. Hard accusations are not productive and should be left for when the facts are clear.

[tasadam]

How is this even relevant to bushwalking?

The good folk here visit tracks, and as such, at the time Police were wanting information. Therefore it was prudent to link the information here.
The update where the information being no longer relevant was similarly updated (within a couple of hours of it being known).

Additionally, (as is clear from the responses), people like to discuss stuff. So the conversation continues.

Myself, I would need to look up that definition before I knew who to look out for. Wonder if I would find a description of my own appearance when walking...

[gbagua]

And if there is one single thing we should be aware of is that most children are preyed on by family members or friends of the family.

More common than what you think and most of the time they go unreported since the victims fear retaliation, have to face guilt or shame, etc. I just recently came across a child who suffered regular abuse by her mother and she came forward and had a chat with her classroom teacher about it. The poor thing was in a state of shock but also very shy about the whole thing..

More info:

http://www.smh.com.au/national/seeking- ... 1trvd.html

This is a lot more worrying than a stranger who asked the kid if she saw his lost dog (not that the community shouldn't be concerned).

Crazy world we all live in!

[Happy Pirate]

How is this even relevant to bushwalking?

The good folk here visit tracks, and as such, at the time Police were wanting information. Therefore it was prudent to link the information here.
The update where the information being no longer relevant was similarly updated (within a couple of hours of it being known).

Additionally, (as is clear from the responses), people like to discuss stuff. So the conversation continues.

Myself, I would need to look up that definition before I knew who to look out for. Wonder if I would find a description of my own appearance when walking...

I am certainly not trying to stifle discussion. I enjoy all post that members of this forum present. It is one of the more robust and intelligent discussions on the (aus) inter-web.
But I do think that within the MSM in general there are various subjects that when presented are generally expected to get a group-think unanimous response and that it is the responsibility of ALL thinking people to be wary of any incursion of collective consensus-ideology. Questions should always be welcome and that often means re-framing the question or scenario first.

As a parent of 2 younguns...

Similarly having seen been through 13 years so far with my son, I have taken the view that rather than barricading him in, I would venture out more and try to observe more of his environment. I think much of the risks out there can be alleviated by increased parental supervision and intervention. If there's an oddity, then just ask and talk and interface. Chances are, it's all a mis-understanding. There are far more nice adult strangers out there for a child to learn from than what's being portrayed in the media and teachers' handbooks. Hard accusations are not productive and should be left for when the facts are clear.

I have enjoyed reading Lenore Skenazy's blog "http://www.freerangekids.com/"
which deals, in part, with our current obsession of 'cottonwooling' kids and disallowing them the growth-space away from parental supervision and (the sometime unreal) parental fears.
The media has a huge role in this. I still remember stories of men needing background checks before being allowed to attend their child's swimming carnivals and of cameras being banned at school sports days. Maybe it still persists.

I see a curious analogy between the over-protectiveness of our kids and the over-sanitisation of our bodies. Both require looking after but require regular exposure to the world to generate tolerance and resilience.
In both cases over-protection creates a lack of resilience that causes its own dangerous reactions.
Nature Deficit Disorder anyone?
Cheers
Steve

[simonm]

Just what we need another disorder . From my experience in working with kids and parents, 'Nature Deficit Disorder' is more a result of lazy, uncreative (is that a word?) parenting. Apologies to any parents I work with who may read this .

I totally agree about the lack of resilience though, it is a real concern when we don't allow kids to experience discomfort.

[GPSGuided]

I have enjoyed reading Lenore Skenazy's blog "http://www.freerangekids.com/"

Thanks for the link HP! Proves again that there are all kinds of voices out there, but some get drowned out by the mass media/lawyers more than others.

[Happy Pirate]

Just what we need another disorder . From my experience in working with kids and parents, 'Nature Deficit Disorder' is more a result of lazy, uncreative (is that a word?) parenting. Apologies to any parents I work with who may read this .

I totally agree about the lack of resilience though, it is a real concern when we don't allow kids to experience discomfort.

Excellent point simonm! (and thanks for the slap down )
And I think what you say stresses the point. That we need a 'classification' to express the lack of a natural state is a worry itself.
Its kind of like an 'Over diagnosed' Disorder and sounds too much like something direct from DSM-IV.

But beyond the scary name-tag DSM association I do think that kids are too insulated from non-urban realities.
Maybe some additional terms? Or lack of?
How do we tell 'Helicopter' parents to hover off?
How do we bring back wilderness to the nursery?
Steve

[Happy Pirate]

I totally agree about the lack of resilience though, it is a real concern when we don't allow kids to experience discomfort.

I have enjoyed reading Lenore Skenazy's blog "http://www.freerangekids.com/"

Thanks for the link HP! Proves again that there are all kinds of voices out there, but some get drowned out by the mass media more than others.

Also one of my fave Radio National Pods for that year with Richard Adie:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/lenore-skenazy-free-range-kids/2986940

cheers
Steve

[simonm]

Steve - no slap-down intended . We are up to the DSM-5 now and it is scarier than ever before, we are pathologising normaility.

In Scotland there is a focus in some schools for young kids in which the outdoors is a major focus of their schooling, and I know my sister incorporates a lot of nature in her teaching but I agree it is becoming an exception. Here is a link http://www.educationscotland.gov.uk/images/cfeoutdoorlearningfinal_tcm4-596061.pdf

[simonm]

This is from a walk up towards Liffey Falls on the weekend, with my kids, my youngest being 18mo. I thought it kind of goes well in this thread. If you start them early enough it just becomes natural, plus brainwashing them with sea kayak and bushwalking movies helps a lot too

My kids on a walk at Liffey Falls

Best friends.jpg (274.38 KiB) Viewed 9885 times

[Happy Pirate]

This is from a walk up towards Liffey Falls on the weekend, with my kids, my youngest being 18mo. I thought it kind of goes well in this thread. If you start them early enough it just becomes natural, plus brainwashing them with sea kayak and bushwalking movies helps a lot too

Best friends.jpg

Beautiful!
Thanks for the post.
No NDD apparent here!
cheers
Steve

[Happy Pirate]

we are pathologising normaility.

And with that one phrase I thinks you spake the world's most true sadness!!!

[Giddy_up]

simonm,

I totally agree with your thoughts. Get them out there and give them enough rope. Then reel them in and teach the lesson, it's rarely forgotten.

Here is my boulder hopping 5 year old.

[simonm]

simonm,

I totally agree with your thoughts. Get them out there and give them enough rope. Then reel them in and teach the lesson, it's rarely forgotten.

Here is my boulder hopping 5 year old.

It is nice to see kids out amongst it.

[Travis22]

Our little girl's first camping trip was at 3 weeks old.

Shes 7months old now and has been out on 6 trips total including a 2 week camping trip in the Flinders > Arkaroola.

Travis.

[perfectlydark]

Thats awesome guys! My oldest is 3 and hates walking (anywhere) but ive managed to get her on the coastal walk in bouddi and an overnight camp (in "daddys house" as my tent is now known as)

[tasadam]

To twist the discussion for a moment (before probably editing and deleting the twist), is there a need for a topic, perhaps in the Gallery section, where I can call it something like "Kids in the bush" - people can post their photos like the examples above (which I would split in order to start the topic), and it might inspire others...
Thoughts? Reply via PM if you prefer.

[GPSGuided]

Kids in the bush is an interesting idea. Fact is, bushwalking has certain limits and requirements for families with kids and there certainly are things that's worth discussing.

[Nuts]

Ha, good idea. I thought of doing something about it at home this morning. It's a shame to have kid pics and stories.. all good stuff.. in such a topic as this.

[Giddy_up]

What a great idea, there are frequently people seeking advice or knowledge on what works for children on bush walks, and their needs can be very specific.

[simonm]

I like the idea of a separate thread for kids stuff but i also think the addition of the kids in the bush pics in this thread offers some balance to the topic.

[Picaro]

This is from a walk up towards Liffey Falls on the weekend, with my kids, my youngest being 18mo. I thought it kind of goes well in this thread. If you start them early enough it just becomes natural, plus brainwashing them with sea kayak and bushwalking movies helps a lot too

Best friends.jpg

Last of the Gumnut Babies ! That's awesome !