Children on long multi-day bushwalks?

[syzygyeolith]

I was recently planning my second bushwalk though the Cradle Mountain Overland track (in February), and in while doing so I was showing my nephew (aged 7) photos I took from my first trip, earlier this March. Since then, he's become adamant that he is coming along with me, which I thought might actually be fun. I've taken him on single day bushwalks in the blue mountains before which he's been able to handle, though he wasn't carrying anything, and the weather was mild.

My question to any other multi-day bushwalkers here though, is have you taken your children or younger family members on a long hike like Cradle before? More importantly, if so would you do it again? Also, what is the most weight you would recommend for a child who is still going though growth. I'm sure I'd have to end up carrying most of his equipment as well. Feel free to add anything else I should be asking, but haven't considered yet too.

I've tried to explain to him as best as I could that the location is remote - if he gets tired, theres no ending things early. He is a pretty tough kid (quite brave too), and he is surprisingly big for his age, but I'm not sure he understand the concepts of just how exhausted you can get, slogging your way uphill with a pack on your back. Still, I had read in the journal books in the huts along the way that children as young as him have done it too.. though they all do seem to be complaining a lot!


Just a few details worth mentioning: I'll probably be going with at least 3 of my other friends (none of whom have done a multi-day before), his mother is not going to be coming, and we're hoping to do it over 7 days (going to the Acropolis, but catching the ferry).

Thanks for any opinions!

[madmacca]

Perhaps try him out on an weekend trip, and see how he does, before making a final decision.

Probably a good load out would be that he carries his own clothing and sleeping bag, but the adults carry food, tents, etc?

[tibboh]

Defineately test him out on some shorter trips with the same load you expect on the OLT. The last thing you want is him pulling the pin on your group on day one or even worse the middle of a week long walk. I think The Acropolis may be beyond a 7yo. Someone may have to stay with him before the cliffs begin. Be sure the group is fine travelling at a 7yo pace.....having said that, he may be faster than you guys Be sure he can exist for that length of time without his mother. It's a pretty easy track, just long.
Should be a memory he carries with him for the rest of his life.....you just have to endeavour to make it a good one.

[GPSGuided]

I'd say age 7 (barely Year 2!) is a bit too young for tough tracks like OLT. There are too many unpredictable factors along the way to knock a child around. Wait at least he is in Year 5 and beyond or there's a serious question on the duty of care clause should anything happens. He is young, he has plenty of time to walk the great walks. Take him on regular local walks to build up his stamina and observe his responses in the meantime.

[Scottyk]

Defineately test him out on some shorter trips with the same load you expect on the OLT. The last thing you want is him pulling the pin on your group on day one or even worse the middle of a week long walk. I think The Acropolis may be beyond a 7yo. Someone may have to stay with him before the cliffs begin. Be sure the group is fine travelling at a 7yo pace.....having said that, he may be faster than you guys Be sure he can exist for that length of time without his mother. It's a pretty easy track, just long.
Should be a memory he carries with him for the rest of his life.....you just have to endeavour to make it a good one.

+1, test him first

Its a long way, and likely to turn sour if he decides he doesn't want to be there after day 2.
I remember when my Dad got me to come on a 10 day walk when I was 12 and it was hard for me. I even remember a few big boys tears when pushing through some Scoparia on one of the later days! Though that walk was off track for the most part I remember thinking that I would NEVER go bushwalking again, turned out I was wrong.

[Strider]

I'd say age 7 (barely Year 2!) is a bit too young for tough tracks like OLT. There are too many unpredictable factors along the way to knock a child around. Wait at least he is in Year 5 and beyond or there's a serious question on the duty of care clause should anything happens. He is young, he has plenty of time to walk the great walks. Take him on regular local walks to build up his stamina and observe his responses in the meantime.

I agree with this but I am interested in what you mean in relation to duty of care?

[Nuts]

I answer similar questions most weeks. Answers with questions along similar lines as the other guys here.
Many people take younger ones, most times it seems they do fine. Occasionally not (from what iv'e seen) but they are mostly well practiced and by the time they get walking the more capable ones seem to end up out there.

The bottom line (for us) is whether the little person can (not only walk the distance but also) carry a minimum of equipment and have the capacity to be able to use it to at least survive a night alone... so this includes at least a part of the shelter or a ground sheet, sleeping bag, warm clothes, some food... and a level of maturity.

Obviously kids develop at different rates but mentally and physically 12 seems like the expected average (for the OLT, 16 for anything harder) and is what we advise. I think these age limits may also be somewhere in the guidelines for commercial operators iirc.

I too wonder about the duty of care as applied to overly ambitious relatives (not saying that is the case here, good idea asking around)

[GPSGuided]

I agree with this but I am interested in what you mean in relation to duty of care?

"Duty of Care" these days has taken up a life of its own. What I meant was how any potential incidents would be judged by the community/court, one where said terminology would invariably come in. It's the duty of the carer/s to ensure any activity is suitable and is safe for the subject.

[syzygyeolith]

Thanks for everyones two cents thus far.


I was thinking about going for an overnight trip somewhere near Sydney (if anyone has a recommendation). Just to see how he finds sleeping on the ground and carrying all his food and water around with him. That way at least he won't get upset with me if he has a bad time and I have to tell him he can't come on the big trip.

I might need to do some proper investigation on to the most his body should be able to carry too, since I don't want to have him injured just from carrying a pack. As I mentioned though, he is a big kid for his age, and he looks like hes at least 10 or 11 years old. But as has been mentioned above, 16 years of age seems to be the consensus.

[bailz66]

When we did this walk we came accross a young guy of about 8 years of age carrying a pack. He was having a great time. He didn't do the OLT but did 4 days including a couple nights up at Pine Vally.

He carried his sleeping bag, mat, pillow, water and some clothes but it was pretty light.

[Tortoise]

Hi syzygyeolith

Great to hear that you're introducing your nephew to bushwalking. I've known of some young kids achieving amazing things, but the preparation was crucial, including multiple weekend to longer walks, increasing in difficulty and much thought given to kid-friendliness along the way - strategies for when they were exhausted/sad/bored etc etc.

I've taken him on single day bushwalks in the blue mountains before which he's been able to handle, though he wasn't carrying anything, and the weather was mild.

What level of difficulty? How many kms? How much ascent/descent?

Since then, he's become adamant that he is coming along with me, which I thought might actually be fun.

I've tried to explain to him as best as I could that the location is remote - if he gets tired, theres no ending things early.

I don't think it's possible for an eager 7 yo to understand what he's getting himself into, with not enough relevant experience to be able to assess it. The longest day as most people do the OLT is Windermere to Pelion - nearly 17km, with a hill at the end that is a doddle if done fresh, but a slog for a lot of people at the end of the day. I think your nephew needs to have done a similar thing (preferably in cold, wind and rain!) to give him an idea of what he might face, and for you to have a realistic understanding of his capabilities.

Has he walked in snow before? There's a good chance he'll have a bit of that whenever you do it. I've seen kids respond to it in very different ways when they have to walk in it, rather than just play in it for a while then quickly get warm and dry.

In my experience with other people's kids (as with anybody really, but the challenge of handling it can be extra tricky), the mental stamina is much more important than the physical stamina (which is obviously needed as well). 2 nephews - one towards the hyperactive end of things, an enthusiastic, sport-playing outdoor kinda guy. The other, a knowledge sponge, IT nut, who spent much time indoors. Guess which one was 'tired' after 200 metres, needing much coaxing and all the creativity I could muster (intergalactic wars etc)to get him the next few hundred metres to the campsite??

I'll probably be going with at least 3 of my other friends (none of whom have done a multi-day before)

This adds some unknown possible complications, which for me would mean I probably wouldn't attempt it with a 7 yo child who has not had any/much multi-day walk experience. If there was any significant problem, I'd be wanting at least one other experienced adult I could rely on, to carry lots of extra weight, to lead if you were out of action etc.

Re appropriate weight for him to carry - lots of views out there, like 10 - 15% of the child's weight, or the same no. of kgs as the child's age (I suspect the latter is becoming less popular). Anyone got an update?

Anyway, here's to much great walking for you and your nephew in the years ahead!

[icefest]

Was it the hyperactive kid, tortoise?

I've said this before, and I apologise for repeating.
I've been taken on hikes this long at that age and earlier. I have great memories of trips like that.
It is not impossible but I am sure that it was hard for my parents. I would do the same with my children.

Plan to divide the long day in two, even if Frog flat is an awful campsite. (I'd camp just before or after)

[Moondog55]

From my own experiences with my kids [ bearing in mind that all kids are different] 4 days walking seemed to be the maximum enjoyable. One hated having wet feet but rain was OK { and this pre-supposes that gear and clothing is up to at least the same standards as the adults are using} and all of them could carry 1/4 of body mass if the daily distance was short. At 8YO my son would happily carry 7kg but if he carried more than that after 3 hours the whinging would start. If the walk was going to be longer than 4 days perhaps a proper rest day in a hut would be in order. Physical strength and endurance aside there can be a big boredom factor involved with long slogs

[Tortoise]

Was it the hyperactive kid, tortoise?

Indeed it was, icefest.

I've said this before, and I apologise for repeating.
I've been taken on hikes this long at that age and earlier. I have great memories of trips like that.
It is not impossible but I am sure that it was hard for my parents. I would do the same with my children.

That's fantastic
I do think it's an extra step taking someone else's kids, partly because we can't have had as much experience at knowing the best ways to avoid/resolve little crises unless we've lived with them for a good while.

I still admire the family who took on 400+ kms of the AAWT in 1989ish, when the kids were maybe 6 and 8. It took monumental preparation, though, for everyone's safety and enjoyment. If those kids/parents are reading this, I'd love to hear from you!!

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I work with a guy who did the OT at the age of six.

He seemed to cope okay, and given how many years ago it was, had a remarkable and detailed memory of each day.

Just depends on the mental and physical strength of the young man.

Like others have suggested, definitely try him out in a few overnight walks in bad weather.

[wildwalks]

Worth reading this thread
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5735 mod edit, link fixed ;

Geoff trained and prepared his kid well and the trip went well. (Geoff and his son are currently riding there pushbikes across Australian west-east -- so a bit tricky to get his attention at the moment)
(unfortunately he seems to have taken down his blog on the trip preparation)

Matt

[eaglehawk]

Hi,
Yes, we do multi day walks with our kids, now 7 and 5. Yes my kids could do the OT. I know it.
The same as Geoff new his boy could do it.
You don't have that confidence, because you and he haven't done the training.
Do other stuff first.
I also wouldn't expect my mates to walk with our kids, it's a whole other pace.
Oh and our kids never carry more than a few kilos, because we likely end up carrying it anyway.
Don't want to put you off, i just don't think the OT is the right way to start off with a 7 year old.

[Giddy_up]

My only advice would be to never lead. Let the child set the pace and be prepared to stop short of benchmark camp sites and set up your tent and have a rest and play some games. No walk is a race and yes the OT can be done in hours or days, so plan for longer and enjoy it rather than push hard because of some predetermined factors.

My little man is eight and I reckon he could do the walk, the thing that would bust him would be the cold as he is just not use to it and would not understand how to cope with it.

[GPSGuided]

My only advice would be to never lead. Let the child set the pace and be prepared to stop short of benchmark camp sites and set up your tent and have a rest and play some games. No walk is a race and yes the OT can be done in hours or days, so plan for longer and enjoy it rather than push hard because of some predetermined factors.

Is there such luxury on the OLT, considering transport booking at the end? Weather is obviously the other factor.

[Don R]

I have been taking my daughter out for some years with other bushwalking mates and their kids. The result could be summarised as:

1. Kids are surprisingly resilient but long distances, scunge, poor conditions, lots of ascent can knock them for six;
2. A good rule of thumb is a child can, with suitable breaks and encouragement, do as many Kim's during a day as their age (e.g 5kms for a 5 year old);
3. The young person should have a small light comfortable pack with some necessities, the adult should carry every else including sleeping bags, mats, food,etc;
4. The child would need some sort of stimulation other than walking ( e.g toys, colouring book ,etc)

I can't see a 7 year old generally enjoying a week on the OLT or doing the bigger days. there are some sections eg from Pine Valley south which a child might find dull.

Goodluck anyhow,

[wayno]

DOC in NZ set a minimum age of ten, for kids wanting to complete their great walk tracks...
even if the young man completes a weekend trip, it still doesnt tell you how well he will cope on the longer trip, its hit and miss. i've come across some pretty miserable kids on tramps struggling along on long days..
what sometimes happens is on the first night they are still pretty wound up and dont get much sleep. so day two isnt much fun and the following days less so....

[Lindsay]

On the Milford track a few years back there was a couple with two kids aged about 10 or 11 who seemed to have a great time. In the huts at night the parents did take the kids to one side when other walkers were stripping off wet gear and/or getting ready for bed, but apart from that they mixed well and got on with everyone. Although 7 may be a bit young, if the young bloke can handle a fairly strenuous overnight walk then he should be OK for the Overland, and it will be a great experience for him.

[simonm]

I just took my 18month old on his first proper bushwalk with his sister of 3 1/2years and he walked for about 3 hours and I reckon we covered over 3km's. I was so surprised and like Giddy-up wrote I let them lead but I was the one who said we better head back. It was very enjoyable seeing him just soaking it up. I also had my daughter carrying a back pack with just her rain jacket in so she would get used to carrying a pack in the future.

Who knows what my kids would be capable of when they are 7, time will tell I guess. My daughter says she wants to do the OT, so we will slowly work our way up to bigger days, overnighters etc and we will see how she goes.