PLB to use them or not

[wayno]

its a really hot topic on the NZ alpine club facebook page at the moment.
one side only believing in self rescue and belief that they are often used unecesarily and only use it as a completely last resort when you cant get yourself out of the bush without threat to your very life.....
another side criticising that standpoint

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5638346254/

thre was a scenario recently where someone set off a beacon because he was running late on his trip, he coped a lot of flack and the maritime authority who control beacon rescues in nz wanted to hit him with a massive fine for setting it off

but the guy who set it off was experienced, he knew a rescue would be initiated when he went overdue and he knew it was going to take less money and resources and wasted time to just set his beacon off and get the helicopter to pick him up... he wasnt injured, there was no threat to his life... he could have continued walking , he had enough food...
yes, brings the argument of would have been good if he had a two way device but for various reasons not everyone does and we've been down that arguemnt before so i dont think we need to raise that argument again. its been thrashed enough i think,

[sthughes]

Personally I can see both sides to the argument.
It would be great if PLB's had two buttons. One to push that says "rescue me!", and one that says "I'm fine and just running late, so please ignore my wife's 000 call that you are no doubt about to get"!

[GPSGuided]

When it comes to safety, it's better to air lift a person out alive than dead. Similar arguments and issues are also present for the ambulance service. Just do it. The real load is coming with the increasingly widely available PLB devices. The example case is a bit of an odd case. For one thing, people who has PLBs and well supplied could have arranged with their home contact to delay their contact with the emergency services.

[icefest]

sthughes: If you can wait 5-7 years then that will exist. GALILEO navigation (EU GPS) has facilities for 2 way emergency location services.

[GPSGuided]

sthughes: If you can wait 5-7 years then that will exist. GALILEO navigation (EU GPS) has facilities for 2 way emergency location services.

Perfect, time schedule to upgrade my rescueMe PLB1 then.

[Allchin09]

Personally I can see both sides to the argument.
It would be great if PLB's had two buttons. One to push that says "rescue me!", and one that says "I'm fine and just running late, so please ignore my wife's 000 call that you are no doubt about to get"!

Isn't that what the SPOT 2 can do?

[GPSGuided]

You pay for SPOT's service, regularly.

[Allchin09]

That is an issue with using a SPOT device, but surely to $100 or so yearly service fee is cheaper than paying for a search party when you are just 'running late' and not in danger?

[Strider]

Personally I can see both sides to the argument.
It would be great if PLB's had two buttons. One to push that says "rescue me!", and one that says "I'm fine and just running late, so please ignore my wife's 000 call that you are no doubt about to get"!

Isn't that what the SPOT 2 can do?

Not exactly.

[MrWalker]

Personally I can see both sides to the argument.
It would be great if PLB's had two buttons. One to push that says "rescue me!", and one that says "I'm fine and just running late, so please ignore my wife's 000 call that you are no doubt about to get"!

Isn't that what the SPOT 2 can do?

Not exactly.

You can send an "I'm OK" message, so that your wife doesn't call 000.
I've started using SPOT because I wasn't happy with the all-or-none PLB system. SPOT allows you to change your route, return late, or make other changes to your plans and still keep home base informed.

[Strider]

I kept my reply short to avoid this debate, but yes Spot can be used in various ways. However,none of which are replacement for a PLB, IMO.

[Solohike74]

As I often hike alone, and in alpine areas in all seasons, the threshold of which I decide it appropriate to use a PLB is lowered from "mortal danger" to "circumstances that could lead to mortal danger". The threshold can vary according to the season and the distance from any civilisation and if phone reception is available or not. That said, I don't always take a PLB as I don't own a PLB and usually only take one when there's a convenient facility with subsidised or free PLB hire. The Blue Mountains in NSW have several locations where free PLB hire is on offer. NPWS at Jindabyne also have heavily subsidised PLB hire.

[MrWalker]

I kept my reply short to avoid this debate, but yes Spot can be used in various ways. However,none of which are replacement for a PLB, IMO.

I fully agree. I take a PLB as well as SPOT, because SPOT doesn't always get through. I just wish the PLB had more than 1 signal it could send.

[corvus]

PLB is my choice as mostly I do not see the need to let my wife know that I am OK if out of mobile contact,rather have the Rescue Chopper know exactly where I am and get me out of trouble if needed
corvus

[geoskid]

I don't have anything at the moment. I have resisted getting anything because I do think it does ( or will for me ) change things.
Strange as it may seem to some, I err.. like/want /welcome the idea that I'm on my own - for me it makes the difference.
People may call it stupid /selfish whatever. (this is on solo bushwalks/M/cycle rides).
But as my kids get older and we are planning to do more I am under pressure to get something. (I still remember jmac sharing what he got up to as a 15 year old). If I get something I really dont want the boys knowing - I am sure it will undermine any teaching about preparedness.
I really dont know.

[Lotsafreshair]

I always take a PLB, but have thought about this one-way comms issue quite a bit, along with the cost of things like Delorme InReach and Spot.

How does this sound as a plan...?

1) Take your PLB
2) Tell your nearest and dearest that you have one (and how they work... for peace of mind)
3) Tell them not to panic if you're overdue... wait until morning/noon next day before they call 000... ie. if it was bad you would have activated the PLB immediately.
4) Try to get yourself somewhere high/in range to call from mobile asap (carry a sim of the 'other' carrier with you just in case)
5) If after trying to self rescue/get in range to no avail by 1500hrs the next day, activate the PLB.

Of course, every situation is going to be unique and I can only imagine that unless you're actually there, it's hard to appreciate all the factors at play.

Hmmm... sound of me scratching my chin.

[GPSGuided]

4) Try to get yourself somewhere high/in range to call from mobile asap (carry a sim of the 'other' carrier with you just in case)

All logical.

In relation to "emergency" SIM, I understand that all carriers will accept emergency calls from any other carrier's SIM. Dial 000 or 112 on the mobile, that's all.

[geoskid]

I always take a PLB, but have thought about this one-way comms issue quite a bit, along with the cost of things like Delorme InReach and Spot.

How does this sound as a plan...?

1) Take your PLB
2) Tell your nearest and dearest that you have one (and how they work... for peace of mind)
3) Tell them not to panic if you're overdue... wait until morning/noon next day before they call 000... ie. if it was bad you would have activated the PLB immediately.
4) Try to get yourself somewhere high/in range to call from mobile asap (carry a sim of the 'other' carrier with you just in case)
5) If after trying to self rescue/get in range to no avail by 1500hrs the next day, activate the PLB.

Of course, every situation is going to be unique and I can only imagine that unless you're actually there, it's hard to appreciate all the factors at play.

Hmmm... sound of me scratching my chin.

Yeah, I agree, it's all the right things to do- but - but - it sounds a bit like going to work. What ever happened to winging it and people respecting that your'e a winger (I know, I know, responsibility etc. etc )

Edit - by winging it I don't mean going unprepared, far from it. I mean being prepared, going on short notice, and not expecting anyone to bail you out - society frowns on this, but to me That is living.

[Strider]

PLB is my choice as mostly I do not see the need to let my wife know that I am OK if out of mobile contact,rather have the Rescue Chopper know exactly where I am and get me out of trouble if needed
corvus

Well said.

[nq111]

I don't think there is any doubt that PLBs are being set off unnecessarily and even casually.

But for this.

thre was a scenario recently where someone set off a beacon because he was running late on his trip, he coped a lot of flack and the maritime authority who control beacon rescues in nz wanted to hit him with a massive fine for setting it off

but the guy who set it off was experienced, he knew a rescue would be initiated when he went overdue and he knew it was going to take less money and resources and wasted time to just set his beacon off and get the helicopter to pick him up... he wasnt injured, there was no threat to his life... he could have continued walking , he had enough food...

Plenty of scope to argue what this guy should have done before the walk about communications, plan setting etc. But once in that situation out in the bush 'should have' is irrelevant - the decision tree only extends from that point forward within the circumstances now locked in. So I think he did absolutely the right thing by calling in the rescuers to save them otherwise searching for him.

Not the best outcome but the best under the circumstances.

[wayno]

from what i've read sar can be philosophical about unecessary call outs due to bad decisions, on the whole they prefer people to err on the side of caution, on the whole its better to be safe than sorry. they'd prefer to be called early before situations can get potentially difficult like people who delay hitting the button till after dark for instance...

[GPSGuided]

On the question of 2-way communication, what would be the expense of a satellite phone with subscription these days? Remembering how mobile technology developed all those years ago. First we had pagers and then it was mobile phones. Following a similar trend, I wouldn't be surprised if satellite phones will become the default technology in support of a PLB in due course. I note also that SPOT has also moved to satellite voice services. They can foresee what's coming for them.

Just looking on eBay and they list a Thuraya unit for under $500.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Thuraya-SO-2 ... a9b&_uhb=1
Add in a prepaid plan and credit of 50units (50mins voice time to landlines) for $56. Not bad with a year of credit validity.

[Miyata610]

I carry a sat phone. Iridium.

You can just put in the sim from your Telstra mobile (post paid) and it will work just fine. As long as you have international roaming enabled.

I just use the cheapest post paid account for mine now. I think it's $10 a month, or thereabouts.

You can send and receive as many text messages as you want, it's called SMS and is quite cheap.

[GPSGuided]

Is your carriage for emergency or regular work requirement? Do you still supplement it with a PLB?

[corvus]

Miyata610
How much did your phone cost?? looks like the cheaper ones are over $800.00 so plus $120.00 pa it is an expensive alternative to PLB for us occasional walkers don't you think ?
corvus

[GPSGuided]

Corvus, that's why I thought the Thuraya service looked interesting. If lucky, the phone could be purchased at a price point significantly lower than $500. Completed listing suggests that it could be had for $240ish or even less. If only used for emergency, $50 (or less credit) for a year should cover most contingencies. I understand Thuraya has full coverage over Australia but no knowledge of its practical performance.

[wayno]

spot do a sat phone for around $500

[simonm]

A while ago sat phones were heavily subsidised if you lived or travelled in areas with no mobile service for a certain amount of the year - not sure if this is still available.

[simonm]

Here is some info. May be helpful to some.

http://www.communications.gov.au/mobile_services/the_satellite_phone_subsidy_scheme

[GPSGuided]

At the same time, one wonders if the sat phone is the most wire-tapped communication service out there.