Your chances in a post-apocalyptic world

[Onestepmore]

I remember hubby saying something about the different survival rates of soldiers from various countries in Japanese POW camps, and how the Aussie and NZ tended to support each other better. The Brits still divided themselves depending on class and rank, the Americans were more individualistic, but the Aussies tended to be more egalitarian and by doing so shared resources better and generally looked after their mates. It'd be nice to think that this sort of thing would stil happen.
I have to say I admired the Londoners reaction to the bombings a few years ago. Just get on with it.

[icefest]

I suppose gotta say this genre is one of my favorite movie genres. A good one is The Road, which is heartwarming and heartbreaking all in one. Good movie

I like the genre too, but prefer written stories.

Depends on the apocalypse. Nuclear? Rather be dead. Zombies? Rather not be eaten alive

Yep. As with many things the answer is: "it depends".

GPSG, I think the issue is less survival in the bush/outdoor and more that there are few here that can defend themselves against other humans that have weapons.

Here is a short list of apocalyses and my expected lifetime:
Island in the Sea of Time
>15years

Dies the Fire
Dead in 1 month OR >5 years

Earth Abides
~5 years

Emergence
<1 day

One Second After
~200 days

Hothouse
1 year

The Drowned World
2-3 weeks

The City of Ember
Old age

The Transall Saga
2-3 days

On the Beach
2-3 weeks

Parable of the Sower
1-3 days

[GPSGuided]

I remember hubby saying something about the different survival rates of soldiers from various countries in Japanese POW camps, and how the Aussie and NZ tended to support each other better. The Brits still divided themselves depending on class and rank, the Americans were more individualistic, but the Aussies tended to be more egalitarian and by doing so shared resources better and generally looked after their mates. It'd be nice to think that this sort of thing would stil happen.
I have to say I admired the Londoners reaction to the bombings a few years ago. Just get on with it.

London bombing can hardly rate with all the other major natural or man-made disasters, but for the media. The basic social order and infra-structure was never significantly affected. Similar with 9-11. Highly localised event.

Otherwise I am also hopeful that our Australian society is more enduring than some other 1st world country/ies. Although all the regular gun crimes in Sydney makes me nervous, but guess there are those in every society.

[GPSGuided]

GPSG, I think the issue is less survival in the bush/outdoor and more that there are few here that can defend themselves against other humans that have weapons.

Interesting angle. Well, let's discuss.

[Pteropus]

Look what happened in some of the shelters and 'refuges' in the USA after Hurricane Katrina - intmidation, rape, theft, coersion... It didn't take long for things to disintegrate - BUT Aussies do have a bit of a different phsche than the Yanks

I would agree that the US society will have to take some blame there. As some say, the US is the poorest rich country. A very polarised society with its lack of basic social safety net and a us vs you gun culture. A counter example would be the Japanese earthquake and Fukushima tsunami, also the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami. The devastation and deaths were far greater but social order was maintained. The question here is, is our Australian society more akin to the US or to those East Asian countries when it comes to disasters? I would say the later. Queensland flood is one positive example.

I think that globally, the breakdown of law and order during disasters often has more (or at least equal) to do with socioeconomic demographic than culture. For example, the Brisbane floods of January 2011 mostly hit higher socioeconomic regions along the Brisbane River. However, within a very short period of time there were reports of looting. Law and order certainly didn’t break down, but it certainly wasn’t just everyone getting stuck in to help their neighbours and strangers alike, which was the perception in the media. And for most people in Brisbane the flood was more a nuisance than a disaster (and I am not downplaying the floods at all either, because my place actually flooded and it was terrible for many people, especially those who died, but hearing the stories from people whinging that there was less food on the shelves in the supermarket, or that beer was running out was a little aggravating). I am sure there is criminal activity after any disaster, but whether the media focus on it or not is another matter.

But when the apocalyptic sh1t hits the fan, I don’t think socioeconomic status, or culture for that matter, is going to matter too much, and it will be dog-eat-dog, survive at all costs!

Btw, has anyone here ever read the Amtrak Wars? Set in the USA 1000 years after a global nuclear war...a great read!

[GPSGuided]

But when the apocalyptic sh1t hits the fan, I don’t think socioeconomic status, or culture for that matter, is going to matter too much, and it will be dog-eat-dog, survive at all costs!

It gets a bit philosophical here.

How many animals on this blue planet would eat their own kind when starved to the extreme? Are we suggesting that most human may? Guess this is a slightly different consideration than defending one's territory, as pretty much all animals do.

[icefest]

GPSG, I think the issue is less survival in the bush/outdoor and more that there are few here that can defend themselves against other humans that have weapons.

Interesting angle. Well, let's discuss.

What would limit you most?

[GPSGuided]

What would limit you most?

I guess there's always that caveat, it depends. But for me, I'd say a basic ability to hunt for food and to plan for food source for the longer term. Hiding, dodging, building shelters and applying common sense to basic first aid can all be done with not too much effort, but securing a longer term food supply would present the greatest challenge for me. I guess trying to get away to a location that's far away to offer safety would be the other. I'd guess that'd be an initial problem. If that can't be achieved, then nothing else matters. Staying in the middle of what once known as "Sydney" would be a major mistake.

[Pteropus]

But when the apocalyptic sh1t hits the fan, I don’t think socioeconomic status, or culture for that matter, is going to matter too much, and it will be dog-eat-dog, survive at all costs!

It gets a bit philosophical here.

How many animals on this blue planet would eat their own kind when starved to the extreme? Are we suggesting that most human may? Guess this is a slightly different consideration than defending one's territory, as pretty much all animals do.

I meant "dog-eat-dog" metaphorically, in the sense that self preservation at any cost would be most important for most people. But since you raise the possibility of cannibalism, you never know what people will do when push comes to shove, and survival is all that matters. If there is no other way to get food, cannibalism couldn't be ruled out (wasn't that a theme in The Road?).

[GPSGuided]

Just saw on SBS news - 'Flash Rob', a new mode of robbery and theft in the US. A group of thieves would go into a store and then run out together with one cloth rack full of new clothes each. Amazing and only in America!

[MichaelJ]

GPSG, thanks for reminding me of the correct spelling of "hoard" in that context......I have spent most of my life teaching kids the beauty of correct spelling, and I still get it wrong myself. I shouldn't ! I could claim that it was my so-called smart phone making an auto-correction, but it wasn't. Great thread.

[perfectlydark]

Heres some pretty out-there scenarios for the apocalypse. Take it with a grain of salt but I thought the 'Grain Situation' one was pretty interesting and not one i'd previously heard of

http://listverse.com/2010/01/09/top-10- ... scenarios/

[corvus]

No-body no matter how well prepared will last 5 years solo.

Not sure about that MD when strictly interpreted. Look at some of those WWII Japanese soldiers who survived solo in the Philippine jungles for a few decades. I recall there were quite a few of them found back in the 70s. Chances would be low but I find it hard to accept a categorical statement on it. How long did Robinson Crusoe hang around for? Or was that a fiction for kids?

This is who Robinson Crusoe was based on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Selkirk
corvus

[Swifty]

After the Apocalypse, the Righteous ascend into heaven after being raised from their graves, and the Damned go to eternal damnation into the burning pits of hell.
I might need an asbestos suit.

[GPSGuided]

I might need an asbestos suit.

Does it come in UL models? What's the thread count?

[Swifty]

What's the thread count?

666. Obviously

[Pteropus]

The problem with the post-apocalyptic lifestyle is that there is no TV around for us to sit and watch how others are surviving...so maybe it's best to sit back and get tips from TV in pre-apocalyptic times
http://theconversation.com/a-tv-viewers ... ypse-20060
(I wonder if I will be at an advantage post-apocalypse, simply coz I rarely watch TV, so I wont miss it? But the lack of internet will be another matter...)

[GPSGuided]

Rise of the rednecks?

[David M]

This is who Robinson Crusoe was based on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Selkirk
corvus

You can watch Robinson Crusoe on YouTube at http://youtu.be/b-YoBU0XT90

[icefest]

If our post apocalyptic world is anything like that of swiss family Robinson, we'll all survive.

[GPSGuided]

If our post apocalyptic world is anything like that of swiss family Robinson, we'll all survive.

The Robinson family, as in Lost in Space? Just need that "Danger, Danger" Class M-3 Model B9 Robot. Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be more like what's happening there right now in the Phillipines after typhoon Haiyan.

[Travis22]

I just joined the survivors

Pretty sure my family and i would do alright in most situations.

Travis.

[icefest]

The Robinson family, as in Lost in Space? Just need that "Danger, Danger" Class M-3 Model B9 Robot. Unfortunately, I suspect it'll be more like what's happening there right now in the Phillipines after typhoon Haiyan.

No, I mean The Swiss Family Robinson from the eponymous novel by Johan David Wyss

[David M]

There isn't enough food in Australia to support the current population without organised agriculture so survivors would need to hope that most of their fellow Australians got wiped out in the apocalypse. On the other hand, maybe untended wheat fields etc will turn into grasslands which will then support a large population of kangaroos and other grazers for people to eat. Maybe sheep and cattle will go free-range and provide food as well. This might increase the supply somewhat above "natural" pre-European levels of food capacity.

In any case, of those that survive the original calamity, I don't thing many will last long because most Australians don't have firearms which are fundamental tools for survival in a post apocalyptic world. They are needed for efficient hunting and also protection against other predators such as humans. I don't think hunting kangaroos and other food animals could be done efficiently by traditional methods, it wasn't even easy for Aborigines living in large groups.

[Pteropus]

There isn't enough food in Australia to support the current population without organised agriculture so survivors would need to hope that most of their fellow Australians got wiped out in the apocalypse. On the other hand, maybe untended wheat fields etc will turn into grasslands which will then support a large population of kangaroos and other grazers for people to eat. Maybe sheep and cattle will go free-range and provide food as well. This might increase the supply somewhat above "natural" pre-European levels of food capacity.

In any case, of those that survive the original calamity, I don't thing many will last long because most Australians don't have firearms which are fundamental tools for survival in a post apocalyptic world. They are needed for efficient hunting and also protection against other predators such as humans. I don't think hunting kangaroos and other food animals could be done efficiently by traditional methods, it wasn't even easy for Aborigines living in large groups.

This assumes that whatever is driving the apocalypse is restricted to humans and that animals are generally unaffected. I think firearms would be more important for self protection rather than hunting though. It is surprisingly easy to catch small animals using simple trapping methods and with a bit of organisation and abundant left-over fencing material, a small group of people could herd larger mammals that have survived into corals. Fencing off water points with one entry/exit, and enclosing animals that come to drink inside is one simple way to trap them.

[GPSGuided]

It's an interesting consideration on the balance of human numbers and available resources. Given human, there's clearly a survival advantage when there's family or related social groups available, but competition may be a significant negative factor when available resources are limited.

[headwerkn]

Ironically my zombie apocolypse, SHTF plan is almost exactly the same as my standard 3-day weekend getaway... disappear up the Western Lakes with fishing rods and camp gear in hand and get as far away from civilisation as possible. Only difference being I'd also take a rifle or two and as much ammo as I could muster (10,000-20,000 rounds of .22LR would last a while). Surviving 5 successive winters up there would be a challenge, sure, but a few months over summer fishing and hunting would be a blast

Firearms for self-defence - agreed, in urban areas especially, given Australia's current lowish levels of civilian firearm ownership (~5%)install, those few who do have them can/would rule the roost, should society degrade to that point (it probably would). Still, duking out turf wars in suburbia would be risky to your own survival, ammo runs out, you can only reload spent cases so long as you have supplies, nor does it solve access to food issues beyond the short term. The smart money would be on moving as far away as possible from population centres and the worst of the chaos. Save the ammo for hunting... unless cannibalism is your aim.

Of course, trapping game and netting fish would be more efficient/likely long term than hunting with a firearm and fishing with a rod. I'm confident taking 'roo with a .22LR and although it isn't legal nor entirely ethical, one can supposedly fall fallow deer easily with a well placed .22 shot as well... however the way I lose flies and shorten leaders sometimes, I'd probably run out of tackle within 6 months or so. Again, you can only tie flies for as long as you've got materials and hooks. As others have mentioned, a smallish group of people could trap, herd and perhaps even corral/fence in a number of beasts for latter "use" or even breeding. That said neither macropods nor deer are particularly easy to fence in

If all fauna and flora are affected however - aka meteor strike - then all bets are off.

[GPSGuided]

I'm confident taking 'roo with a .22LR and although it isn't legal nor entirely ethical, one can supposedly fall fallow deer easily with a well placed .22 shot as well...

You fire your shots and you'll be exposed and 'Zombies' will find you then. Stay low will be the name of the game.

[David M]

Since we are on the topic of survival are many people familiar with the concept of the "bug-out bag"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bug-out_bag

It is a survival bag intended to provide 72 hours supplies after some sort of natural or man-made disaster. It is NOT for long term survival.

And here is an Australian take on the concept:

http://australianpreppers.com/30/

Of course, in Australia our bug-out bag contents will be a little different from US ones, no pistols, for example.

Do you think these have a practical use in Australia? I think it would be fun to assemble one anyway, regardless of useful or not...

[Pteropus]

...and although it isn't legal nor entirely ethical, one can supposedly fall fallow deer easily with a well placed .22 shot as well...

I don’t think you will need to worry too much about the law in the post apocalypse, and I am sure animal ethics will not survive either.
Might want to start an ammo factory though. Could be quite lucrative...if you could defend it.