The cold hard facts of freezing to death

[wayno]

As Freezing Persons Recollect the Snow—First Chill—Then Stupor—Then the Letting Go

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-ad ... ng-Go.html

[Giddy_up]

Very timely article wayno. As a QLD'er preparing for their first snow camping trip its a very sober warning as to how easily things go wrong. Thanks

[Tantell]

Wow, good read and good reminder

[GPSGuided]

Good that nature has it that one would go into a stupor before death. Where's my PLB.

[icefest]

Thanks for the story Franco.

I think I'd prefer hypothermia to being burnt in a bushfire though. Unless I'm guaranteed CO poisoning before.

[wayno]

yeah i've had hypothermia, it was very pleasant but disconcerting because i knew it was hypothermia and what would happen next if i didnt take action to stop it...

[Franco]

That was Wayno not me...

I happen to know a bit about how hypothermia and all of that ,still I can't work out how Lincoln Hall survived his night on Everest.
look that up for an amazing story.

"Sitting to our left, about two feet from a 10,000 foot drop, was a man. Not dead, not sleeping, but sitting cross legged, in the process of changing his shirt. He had his down suit unzipped to the waist, his arms out of the sleeves, was wearing no hat, no gloves, no sunglasses, had no oxygen mask, regulator, ice axe, oxygen, no sleeping bag, no mattress, no food nor water bottle. 'I imagine you're surprised to see me here', he said. Now, this was a moment of total disbelief to us all. Here was a gentleman, apparently lucid, who had spent the night without oxygen at 8600m, without proper equipment and barely clothed. And ALIVE."
This was 12 hours after he was left there presumed to be dead.

[wayno]

aparently the night lincoln hall was high on everest the weather was extraordinarily warm. which wasnt that warm, but for there it was warm, and that was enough to let him live...

[Franco]

"in the process of changing his shirt"
I am pretty sure that he was stripping (paradoxical undressing) a good sign that the heart has given up trying to keep the brain alive and suddenly it releases warm blood all over.

[Onestepmore]

That was a good article. It makes you realise how easy it would be to succumb to hypothermia, with the right set of circumstances. I was very aware of his 'this couldn't happen to me' attitude, then the realization that it was happening.....

[GPSGuided]

Ok, here's a question - What would you do under the circumstance? No, there's no PLB in the car or within mobile/radio reception range. What were your considerations for the decision?

[icefest]

Ok, here's a question - What would you do under the circumstance? No, there's no PLB in the car or within mobile/radio reception range. What were your considerations for the decision?

Hope against hope that I was prepared and had a full tank of fuel.
Then just nap in the car, intermittently turning it on again for warmth.

[Onestepmore]

Stay with the car.
I know people freeze in cars, but doing what Icefest suggested, intermittently turning on the engine and heater. Put on all available clothes. Get some snow in a container that hopefully will thaw inside the car, to drink if it's a prolonged wait.

[GPSGuided]

Is switching off the engine a wise idea at -27F? Whilst reading, thinking of the amount of effort he went through, could he have got the wheels out just by digging with hands or some simple tools? Perhaps the stuffing of some tree branches under the wheels would have helped.

[Moondog55]

Well written article, I enjoyed reading it.
Hypothermia isn't nice, it is painful , unsettling and a bit like being drunk but lucid at the worst that I have had, shivering so badly that doing anything useful is impossible coupled with an almost uncontrollable urge to urinate.

GPSG to answer your question I would not have been so badly prepared as to leave home without a shovel, chains, sand and a sleeping bag in the car. If I had stuffed up tho and I was properly dressed I may have been tempted to ski to the cabin, I have made similar bad decisions once or twice

[Franco]

What to do...
A mate of mine put these bits into practice a couple of years ago most likely saving a woman's life.

Get them into dry clothes
Do not put too many layers on , just some dry layers
Give the victim a warm NOT hot drink
At this point the heart will start to send some warm blood to the extremities, this needs to happen slowly so again do not give the victim hot drinks nor put them in a too warm place.
Of course if you can in the meantime get help....


Decades ago a mate of my father was found hypothermic after being caught unprepared outside (at about 1100m) in around freezing temps (so he was wet and cold)
The rescuers (villagers) thought that the right thing to do was to warm him up as fast as possible so laid him on top of a stove (oil heater sort of temp) made of stone
(my auntie still had one of those stoves when I was growing up...)
The guy died a few hours later....

[wayno]

one of the people trapped at the top of mt taranaki recently in a bad storm was found by SAR alive and conscious after two nights in an open trench... despite their best professional medical attention to address her hypothermia including warming packs, she lapsed into unconsciousness and eventually died.

[GPSGuided]

GPSG to answer your question I would not have been so badly prepared as to leave home without a shovel, chains, sand and a sleeping bag in the car. If I had stuffed up tho and I was properly dressed I may have been tempted to ski to the cabin, I have made similar bad decisions once or twice

Looking at my N American snow country buddies, few of them carry emergency gears in their car. Driving in the snow for them is like driving in the rain for us here. Nothing special and no preparations.

Did a quick calculation based on my car's idle fuel consumption (0.7L/hr), with a 2/3 tank of 40L remaining, it should be theoretically good enough for 57hrs. Add some temperature effect, should still be good for 40hrs. As such, I'd think that staying in the car with a running engine would be the wiser thing to do, at least wait till the daylight hours.

[GPSGuided]

one of the people trapped at the top of mt taranaki recently in a bad storm was found by SAR alive and conscious after two nights in an open trench... despite their best professional medical attention to address her hypothermia including warming packs, she lapsed into unconsciousness and eventually died.

I think out there it can only be said that they were limited to the more basic but focused first aid procedures. True "best" medical treatment won't be available outside a proper medical institution, including cardiac monitoring and formal IV support. Weather limitations in delaying her transfer off the mountain certainly didn't help. The article gave good descriptions of a number of those more advanced techniques.

[Moondog55]

As my wife constantly reminds me, most Americans no longer dress for bad weather, warm building to warm car to warm office or shopping mall so while coats and jackets sell well; most people do not layer up. Very few people I met ever do much more than walk 100 metres outside in winter.
I agree that staying with the car is the best option in that circumstance but if the wind is blowing and snow is falling there is a possibility of the car being buried.

[Strider]

Then just nap in the car, intermittently turning it on again for warmth.

In that kind of severe cold, it would take the coolant quite some time to warm up each time to actually provide any warmth via the heater. Not to mention you're lucky if the battery hasn't already carked it.

[wayno]

you might be lucky if you wake up at all...

[Moondog55]

Then just nap in the car, intermittently turning it on again for warmth.

In that kind of severe cold, it would take the coolant quite some time to warm up each time to actually provide any warmth via the heater. Not to mention you're lucky if the battery hasn't already carked it.

Most batteries are CCC rated [ 30 seconds] and good down to -40 which is a good reason to make sure you replace a battery on a regular basis, every 3 years at a maximum even if they are still OK ( and keep the old one charged up in the shed for back-up ) in those temperatures it is a good idea to keep a can of ether in the glove box tho and make sure you have the correct oil in the engine, even at Falls Creek I used 5W to top up the sump at the start of winter when I lived up there

[GPSGuided]

Not to mention you're lucky if the battery hasn't already carked it.

Good point. The car battery will be stressed in that environment to provide that many start up cycles.

[icefest]

Similar to the story Wayno posted, here is a real life story.

Similar, but different. http://gearjunkie.com/mount-hood-climb-rescue

[GPSGuided]

Similar to the story Wayno posted, here is a real life story.
Similar, but different. http://gearjunkie.com/mount-hood-climb-rescue

Noted "gearjunkie" site.

So the question is, was it the light or the attached whistle that saved him? Or was it the PLB?

[icefest]

That's like asking is it the motor, wheels or fuel that makes a car work.

I imagine rescue would have taken longer without any one of the items.

[GPSGuided]

Good answer, in line with the "gearjunkie" philosophy.

[Moondog55]

Why was a "Gear junkie ' out there without a decent bivvy bag and jacket anyway?
But I think I'll think about a decent strobe for next winter

[Onestepmore]

I think probably the PLB, because without searchers notified and looking for him, he could tweet on his whistle or flash his strobe indefinitely, but with no one out there to hear or see it'd be fruitless.