Wild dogs?

[Travis22]

Im quite used to seeing wild dogs in the vic high country. Ive seen a couple of cats but a lot more dogs.

Having just returned from the Flinders ranges - Arkaroola, i was absolutely blown away by the number of wild cats we encountered while traveling and in camps.

Speaking to a store owner out there he told us that he alone had disposed of 80 cats in the area there this year.

Travis.

[maddog]

http://theconversation.com/will-we-hunt ... iger-19982

[puredingo]

Looks like the poor old Dingo is going to have to wear the wrath of a thousand angry farmers as a type of income protection. I love it how these writers attempt to justify the farmers position by including romantic notions of "taking pride in healthy stock" when the only thing the farmers I've met take pride in is a fat, healthy wallet. None of them could care less about environmental or cultural issues where the animal is concerned. Turning a profit is priority A B and C.

Green rant for the day over.

[Travis22]

Given the way farming has gone in Australia I think your comments towards our farmers are a little harsh PD.

Cannot say I've ever met a farmer with fat healthy wallets and the way Coles and Wollies are going id say any with fat wallets well their days are numbered.

I'd much rather they continued shooting wild dogs etc then they sold out to Chinese owned companies and or we continue to allow cheaper imported foods into Australia that continue to destroy our local farming industry.

Travis.

[Giddy_up]

Looks like the poor old Dingo is going to have to wear the wrath of a thousand angry farmers as a type of income protection. I love it how these writers attempt to justify the farmers position by including romantic notions of "taking pride in healthy stock" when the only thing the farmers I've met take pride in is a fat, healthy wallet. None of them could care less about environmental or cultural issues where the animal is concerned. Turning a profit is priority A B and C.

Green rant for the day over.

Gee that's a well thought out response on a subject that you clearly have no knowledge about.

[puredingo]

Looks like the poor old Dingo is going to have to wear the wrath of a thousand angry farmers as a type of income protection. I love it how these writers attempt to justify the farmers position by including romantic notions of "taking pride in healthy stock" when the only thing the farmers I've met take pride in is a fat, healthy wallet. None of them could care less about environmental or cultural issues where the animal is concerned. Turning a profit is priority A B and C.

Green rant for the day over.

Gee that's a well thought out response on a subject that you clearly have no knowledge about.

Nearly as good as yours Giddy. Tell me more about the things I know nothing about, or alternatively you could give up some of your knowledge on the subject which must be correct because it's your opinion.

Travis, you will probably get it both ways all the dogs will be shot out and they still be bought out by OS companies.

[maddog]

Had a chat to a cow cocky yesterday. He explained that he had just shot a 'wild dog'. The *&%$#! (female dog) had a companion but it got away. He showed me a photo, it was a beautiful animal, much like a Dingo in build and colour.

His rationale for shooting the dog was that his cows were in calf and dogs were a nuisance.

Cheers

[maddog]

Dogs are sensitive to small variations of the Earth's magnetic field.

Abstract
Introduction: Several mammalian species spontaneously align their body axis with respect to the Earth’s magnetic
field (MF) lines in diverse behavioral contexts. Magnetic alignment is a suitable paradigm to scan for the occurrence
of magnetosensitivity across animal taxa with the heuristic potential to contribute to the understanding of the
mechanism of magnetoreception and identify further functions of magnetosensation apart from navigation. With
this in mind we searched for signs of magnetic alignment in dogs. We measured the direction of the body axis in
70 dogs of 37 breeds during defecation (1,893 observations) and urination (5,582 observations) over a two-year
period. After complete sampling, we sorted the data according to the geomagnetic conditions prevailing during
the respective sampling periods. Relative declination and intensity changes of the MF during the respective dog
walks were calculated from daily magnetograms. Directional preferences of dogs under different MF conditions
were analyzed and tested by means of circular statistics.

Results: Dogs preferred to excrete with the body being aligned along the North–South axis under calm MF
conditions. This directional behavior was abolished under unstable MF. The best predictor of the behavioral switch
was the rate of change in declination, i.e., polar orientation of the MF.

Conclusions: It is for the first time that (a) magnetic sensitivity was proved in dogs, (b) a measurable, predictable
behavioral reaction upon natural MF fluctuations could be unambiguously proven in a mammal, and (c) high
sensitivity to small changes in polarity, rather than in intensity, of MF was identified as biologically meaningful. Our
findings open new horizons in magnetoreception research. Since the MF is calm in only about 20% of the daylight
period, our findings might provide an explanation why many magnetoreception experiments were hardly replicable
and why directional values of records in diverse observations are frequently compromised by scatter.

http://www.frontiersinzoology.com/conte ... -10-80.pdf

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablo ... arch-finds

Cheers

[GPSGuided]

How did they define unstable MF?

[Mark F]

I always align myself with the wind direction (face downwind) rather than MF.

[Strider]

This doesn't prove magnetic sensitivity in dogs. It merely suggests that there is a relationship, but does not explore what that relationship might be mediated by.

[Bubbalouie]

This doesn't prove magnetic sensitivity in dogs. It merely suggests that there is a relationship, but does not explore what that relationship might be mediated by.

If I was a dog I'd avoid pooping with the afternoon sun in my eyes...

[stry]

If I was a dog I'd avoid pooping with the afternoon sun in my eyes...

[/quote]

The simplest explanations are often the most valid !!!!

[GPSGuided]

The simplest explanations are often the most valid !!!!

+1

[maddog]

If I was a dog I'd avoid pooping with the afternoon sun in my eyes...

The simplest explanations are often the most valid !!!!

The simple (and not at all interesting) explanation , that the dogs were avoiding looking at the sun, was considered but dismissed by the researchers:

Last but not least, the argument that the dogs might orient with regard to sun position so that they turn with their back to the sun in order to avoid dazzling by sunshine during such a sensitive and vulnerable act as excretion can be questioned. This argument is not plausible for urine marking, which is a brief act. We doubt that a dog that cares of not being attacked would always make sure to be turned away from the sun. The dog will likely look in that direction from where danger can most probably be expected - and this is for sure not always the direction away from the sun. In contrast to a human, the dog is relying also on its nose and its ears (in some breeds even more than on its eyes) when monitoring its surroundings - so we may expect that the dog heads with its nose and pinnae against the wind or in the direction of interest. Directing the pinnae and the nose may take priority over eyes. One can also often observe that dogs (especially during defecation) align in a certain direction, which is actually a different one from the direction of interest and they turn their head then in that other direction. Also we have to take into account that dogs are smaller than humans, they look at a different angle over the horizon and even in situations when we are dazzled, they might be not. Quite important: note also that the preference is axial - there are many cases when the dog actually looks southwards. There is no evidence for shift of the alignment axis during the day.

That dogs are sensitive to small variations of the Earth's magnetic field is of interest as it would explain how dogs are able to navigate large territories (home ranges). It should be of no great surprise as magnetic alignment has been demonstrated in other species (e.g. cattle, deer, foxes, birds, bees and whales). So why do the researchers suggest that dogs align? (the interesting bit)

An answer may lie in the biological meaning of the behavior: if dogs would use a visual (radical-pair based) magnetic map to aid general orientation in space as has been proposed for rodents [32], they might have the need to center/calibrate the map now and then with regard to landmarks or a magnetic reference. Aligning the map and the view towards North (or South) facilitates reading the map. Furthermore, calibration only makes sense when the reference is stable and reliable. We might think of this the same way as a human is stopping during a hike to read a map. When the map is blurred or the reference (perceived magnetic direction) is dispersed or moving due to magnetic disturbances, however, calibration is impossible. In the case of the dogs it thus would totally make sense to not pay attention to magnetic body alignment any more under conditions of a shifting magnetic field.

[GPSGuided]

They can rationalise and extrapolate as much as they want, but presently its but a statistical association that proves little. A lightly supported hypothesis.

[Bubbalouie]

They can rationalise and extrapolate as much as they want, but presently its but a statistical association that proves little. A lightly supported hypothesis.

I personally like simple explanations, but, what they have here is a hypothesis with certain predictive properties. Once you've got that you can devise an experiment to test things.

Whilst I intend this partially in jest (it is possible the animal could measure the change in field just for a start) they could strap a neodymium magnet to a dog's collar and see what it does. If the correlation disappears entirely you've got a little more evidence to back the theory (of course the dog may just hate it's new collar too).

[maddog]

They can rationalise and extrapolate as much as they want, but presently its but a statistical association that proves little. A lightly supported hypothesis.

GPS,

The authors offer an explanation how dogs manage to navigate large distances and /or claim large home ranges. A keen sense of smell and recognising visual landmarks likely aid an animal intimately familiar with its surrounds. Both fail to explain successful navigation over greater distances. The Sun might help, but only so much. Dogs can find their way around at night. Common are stories of lost (or discarded) dogs travelling long distances to find their way back home to the delight (or horror) of a distressed (or callous) master. One such story appears here:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/lifestyle/2 ... rney-home/

Magnetic sensitivity is acknowledged in other creatures, the authors provide a number of examples. Whales are believed blessed in this regard:

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 195536.htm

So why is the same so unlikely a proposition for dogs? How do dogs, and other creatures, cover large distances, in the dark, in close country, through areas which they cannot possibly be familiar. All without going round and round in random circles? I look forward to reading your convincing alternative.

Cheers

[Zone-5]

While camping up at Cooper's Creek in northern SA, we left our boots beside our swag and woke the next morning to find dog prints everywhere and the leather tongues of our 4 boots neatly removed! The chew was like a knife cut and one of the damnedest things I have ever experienced..

..I now always camp with a battery IR sensor light like this one.

Code: Select all

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Adjustabe-Rechargeable-Motion-Rotate-Sensor-LED-Closet-bedroom-bright-light-burb-/400558340521

If anything sneaks into the camp the bright light goes on.

Been safe so far but it's an issue for those who can't have camp site fires.

[Travis22]

I've got 2 dogs and they consistently urinate and poo on opposite sides of a path to each other and their direction at the time is purely governed by where they are along the path when they decide they would like to go.

98% of the time they are walked between 12midnight and 2am.

Travis.

[Travis22]

Zone 5,

One time out camping I woke in the morning to find our dogs nice and quiet in the back of my ute. I knew something was wrong because the always wake us up in the morning without fail but on that morning I went to investigate and found them laying down quietly and they wouldn't look me in the eyes.

Looking around in the tray I found the reason why they were being very submissive, my Scarpa M3 attack? Hiking boots had the tongues chewed out!!!!!!! They would be up there with the thickest leather boots made and they (however I'd say it was only one of the dogs not both) tore out the tongues like it was nothing.

Travis.

[maddog]

I've got 2 dogs and they consistently urinate and poo on opposite sides of a path to each other and their direction at the time is purely governed by where they are along the path when they decide they would like to go.

98% of the time they are walked between 12midnight and 2am.

Travis.

G'day Travis,

The study recorded alignment outside on open fields and the routes of walks were routinely changed to exclude or limit pseudo replications which would occur when dogs are dedicating or urinating at just a few places… If you have a soccer field within reasonable distance from your home it might be a good place to let your dogs run, allowing you to continue with your observations free from directional bias. You might also find this site useful.

http://www.ga.gov.au/earth-monitoring/geomagnetism.html

Cheers

[GPSGuided]

Don't get too carried away by n=1 study.

[maddog]

Don't get too carried away by n=1 study.

n=2

[GPSGuided]

n=2

Still not statistically significant.

[maddog]

n=2

Still not statistically significant.

GPS,

You are correct to assert that the study of the excremental habits of dogs conducted by Travis cannot alone be considered reliable. However, one assumes the ambition is to replicate the results of the principle study and satisfy his own particular interest. If this is correct, the small number of subjects should not matter so long as Travis faithfully follows the methods of the original study. If he fails to replicate the results, and contests the validity of the principle study, only then would it be necessary for Travis to increase the number of subjects and avoid having the reader assume the failure was due to deficiency on the part of his dogs.

Cheers

[Zone-5]

n= -1

[north-north-west]

You are correct to assert that the study of the excremental habits of dogs conducted by Travis cannot alone be considered reliable. However, one assumes the ambition is to replicate the results of the principle study and satisfy his own particular interest. If this is correct, the small number of subjects should not matter so long as Travis faithfully follows the methods of the original study. If he fails to replicate the results, and contests the validity of the principle study, only then would it be necessary for Travis to increase the number of subjects and avoid having the reader assume the failure was due to deficiency on the part of his dogs.

Now I know I've gone totally bonkers - that made perfect sense on the first reading.

[Dolerite Walker]

Saw two strays last winter at the start of the Montezuma Falls walk, Tas west coast. Unfortunately they made themselves scarce in a hurry.

[Jaala]

Have yet to see any Dingos in Victoria but back up in NQ I have rather fond memories of them. They'd come on in and scout the camp at night, even if somone was in a hammock. Large packs of say 10 or more. They'd sniff, we'd gander, they'd move on. Never felt threatened. The pigs however were a bit of a worry although we were always a step behind their diggings. Only experience I have had with a (lone) pig was when I was a child (free range) and it bluffed me a few times and then took off.
The only time I had come across dogs and felt threatened was once in the Paluma range where I came across two piggers with two dogs... on a pig. I heard them coming through the forest and they managed to catch up with the pig right in front of me. One of the dogs stopped and stared at me, and the guys screamed at me to get up a tree which I did. I spent the next five minutes rubbing my ears to try to drown out the sounds. I later met those guys, who had rifles and could have just shot the pig, on their way out and they said one of the dogs had taken off but was not injured. I have no doubt that that dog is still out there. So, dingos in my experience are no problem for hikers though I am always aware that there are other dogs out there. Not something that should inhibit anyone, but certainly food for thought. I always carry a hunting knife.