'Bushing It' for a Long Time

[GPSGuided]

When you are alone out there, wouldn't foraging for the next meal be the dominant task? Not going to be much time for a leisurely walk.

[perfectlydark]

Depends on the situation. OP seems like its not so much a survival thing just solitude. A good book called "I want to be alone" tells the stories of various famous hermits over the centuries. Good read

[north-north-west]

Ed Wardle said the hardest thing was loneliness when he made Alone In The Wild - I think he cut his trip short because he just missed people so much.

Multiple personality disorder would fix this

We think it's now called Dissociative identity Syndrome, and it hasn't done us any harm.

[jickham]

The Grizzly Man spoke to his fox. When there's no people around you just start talking to the trees and ants... and wind... Although... from memory, he had a girl with him.

[andrewa]

Wow, fascinating posts....

Jickham......recent broken relationship?..

I love my time in the bush and being away from people......and, whilst I could happily spend 3-4 weeks in remote areas of NZ with a mate, I don't think I'd enjoy it by myself for more than a week or two. Moondog is the most recent of "us forumites" to have spent time alone. I love the wilderness, but an important part of the enjoyment is being able to share it with someone. A bit like the concept of "if there's no photograph, it didn't happen".

A mate of mine once tried to do the Alpine Walking Track in winter by himself. He returned early, apparently just after the Baw Baw plateau. I asked him what happened. He said he'd been knocked out by a large icicle that fell from a tree, and decided it was too dangerous, so had come home early. A story like that rings "bullsiht"....but if he'd had a photo, or a mate to verify the story, then maybe.......

So, in a trip like you're planning, whilst it might be wonderful personally, don't expect it to be something where the extraordinary experiences can be usefully shared with others.

PS I'd choose Alaska. Can't see you getting away from anyone in Oz for more that a week. We regularly manage 7-10 days in NZ without seeing anyone, but it is a remote river, and I think we're pushing it.

A

[Scottyk]

I would want a area where a fire was allowed. Couldn't imagine living with only a fuel stove for an extended period.
A fire would give you the ability to dry gear etc.
Interesting idea though, most of us are to busy to drop out for that long, modern life etc..

[Happy Pirate]

Hi jickham
Nice topic,
I assume you know of the Australian Geographic couples who spent 'a year in the wilderness'?
There are a couple of good books and several articles in AG about.

This couple I am unfamiliar with. Who are they?

For a while, under Dick, (1990s?) AG sponsored a few couples to go and live in the wilderness for 12 months. I recall a couple of couples, their stories were published in the mag.
I have the book written by them who was in the Kimberly. The AG website seems reluctant to yield up any info and my book is in a box.
Do any other members have any info of the whole "Year in the wilderness" stories?
Steve

[Onestepmore]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

[Happy Pirate]

Or a general loathing of people

We are social beings, even people who loathe other people need them to loathe at.

MDoggy
sorry but I find that to be quite a smug and fatuous comment.
So do people who hate violence need violence in order to have something to 'hate at'?
Do all of us who rile against wilderness desecration secretly need our favourite wild spaces to be trashed in order to justify our sense of loss 'at' ?
Do I need you to come over and punch me up the conk in order that I can become outraged at having my conk punched?

You mistakenly assume that folk with (in this case) an opposite attitude to you have a predefined need for a state waiting to be fulfilled rather than it being a reaction against an unwanted situation whereas your state of mind is (glibly assumed to be) natural and without predetermined requirements.

The OP is intending to set out for what I understand to be just as long as he needs. Not a forced isolation, not an anti-humanist retreat.
Or perhaps by exposing himself to wilderness he is finding something he "need ... to loathe at"?

SteveevetS
(in confusion of circular arguments)

[Happy Pirate]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Some of them never come back to the world they left behind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Moitessier

and some go mad and commit suicide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst

A great documentary if you can find it: "Strange Waters - The Adventures of Donald Crowhurst"
A strange and bizarre story.

[pm me and I can send it to you]

Steve

[Scottyk]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Some of them never come back to the world they left behind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Moitessier

and some go mad and commit suicide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst

A great documentary if you can find it: "Strange Waters - The Adventures of Donald Crowhurst"
A strange and bizarre story.

[pm me and I can send it to you]

Steve

Yep the Donald Crowhurst story is a very weird one. I remember reading the book of the race when I was young. The book is excellent

[Moondog55]

Hmmmm. Didn't mean it to be either; just a comment on the general human condition.
Being alone is not natural for people, it is why solitary confinement is used as severe punishment for instance.
Apologies if it was glib and fatuous sounding.

[perfectlydark]

Dont worry I personally didnttake it as an insult
I do disagree with the premise of an overall no exceptions based assumption of companionship being essential to humans, ive no doubt that for the vast majority this is true, but many documented cases of people living the hermitic life prove its not essential for all. Not saying it wouldnt have its effects mentally either, but not necessarily unhealthy (although effecta could have adverse problems if a reintegration is attempted no doubt)

[jickham]

Wow, fascinating posts....

Jickham......recent broken relationship?..

I love my time in the bush and being away from people......and, whilst I could happily spend 3-4 weeks in remote areas of NZ with a mate, I don't think I'd enjoy it by myself for more than a week or two. Moondog is the most recent of "us forumites" to have spent time alone. I love the wilderness, but an important part of the enjoyment is being able to share it with someone. A bit like the concept of "if there's no photograph, it didn't happen".

A mate of mine once tried to do the Alpine Walking Track in winter by himself. He returned early, apparently just after the Baw Baw plateau. I asked him what happened. He said he'd been knocked out by a large icicle that fell from a tree, and decided it was too dangerous, so had come home early. A story like that rings "bullsiht"....but if he'd had a photo, or a mate to verify the story, then maybe.......

So, in a trip like you're planning, whilst it might be wonderful personally, don't expect it to be something where the extraordinary experiences can be usefully shared with others.

PS I'd choose Alaska. Can't see you getting away from anyone in Oz for more that a week. We regularly manage 7-10 days in NZ without seeing anyone, but it is a remote river, and I think we're pushing it.

A

Aha, no... my relationship is fine. Might be broken if I disappear for 2 months though .
I do have a lifestyle where if I wanted to, I could pack my bags and disappear for a couple of months, however, I don't really know anyone else who is willing to do that. I'm not even sure if it's the amount of time away that I feel is important. I think everyone has a limit to how much isolation they could put up with comfortably, and I would, at the very least like to experience that limit. I think I could easily go a couple of weeks by myself without too much trouble.

As for proof that something happened... go pro with a solar power usb charger ... anyone know if theres such a thing?

[perfectlydark]

If they charge of micro usb ports then yes a solar charger should be easy to source

[tas-man]

If they charge of micro usb ports then yes a solar charger should be easy to source

Here's my solar charging setup in this thread for an idea of what will currently work. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=509&p=174566&hilit=wilderness+power#p173067

[Leiothrix]

Hmmmm. Didn't mean it to be either; just a comment on the general human condition.
Being alone is not natural for people, it is why solitary confinement is used as severe punishment for instance.
Apologies if it was glib and fatuous sounding.

I think solitary is so severe not just due to isolation, but because of absolute boredom. There's not much you can do in a tiny cell by yourself with nothing.

[Happy Pirate]

Hmmmm. Didn't mean it to be either; just a comment on the general human condition.
Being alone is not natural for people, it is why solitary confinement is used as severe punishment for instance.
Apologies if it was glib and fatuous sounding.

Moondog:
A fair response to most circumstances but the "general human condition" doesn't mean we are all the same. It's a danger to create a false (or even a fair) stereotype and then assume that a). it can be applied to all people and b). those deviating from the stereotype are wrong/misguided/dangerous.
If you want to look at those who consciously and deliberately choose isolation an excellent book to start with would be "Cave in the Snow" by Tenzin Palmo - a fascinating account of a UK girl who sought out the Nepalese Buddhist life of isolation and chose to live as a recluse for 7 years.

I think solitary is so severe not just due to isolation, but because of absolute boredom. There's not much you can do in a tiny cell by yourself with nothing.

It's true that the mind is it's own worst enemy when external stimulus is removed, although being in the bush is hardly being deprived of all stimulus, as is, I think, jickham's point.
Remove distractions and the mind will focus on what it has.
I for one, envy him(?) his opportunity to spend, not just time with nature, but actively pursue a certain transcendence that excludes distraction and trivia.
I wonder though, how removing the necessity to forage may skew and influence his relationship with nature since he will not experience it as a source of beneficent sustenance (and I'm not even a hunter) but merely a background for his temporary reclusiveness.
Jealous nonetheless...

Steve

[Strider]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Skype.

[Happy Pirate]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Skype.

Glib

[Scottyk]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Skype.

Glib

A friend of mine sailed around the world non stop unassisted a few years ago. He sought some professional advice on how to keep himself going for 180 odd days alone. Routine is the most important thing apparently. Checks of the rigging etch were made daily and long list of other routine jobs always done to give structure to a potentially structure less day.
He didn't have Skype either! Sat phone but they were very expensive.

[iluvhiking]

Just watch "alone in the wilderness" - Dick Proenneke....enuff said!

[tom_brennan]

If I was going to do something like this in Australia, I'd probably head somewhere like the Kimberley in winter.

Weather is warm (but not too usually hot), there's pretty much no rain, plenty of water, and you can even supplement your food with fish. Sooty Grunters are all over the Kimberley, and will bite on a hook with a bit of foil wrapping as a lure!

If you're not doing too much walking, you can survive on about 600gm of dry weight food a day, so for 1.5 months, you could get away with 27kg of food - ignoring the fish.

[Happy Pirate]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

Some of them never come back to the world they left behind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Moitessier

and some go mad and commit suicide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Crowhurst

A great documentary if you can find it: "Strange Waters - The Adventures of Donald Crowhurst"
A strange and bizarre story.

[pm me and I can send it to you]

Steve

Sorry - "Deep Water - The Strange Adventures of Donald Crowhurst" (BBC)
One of the most gripping and moving doco's I've ever seen; definitely worth watching, (or PM-ing me if you can't find a commercial copy)
S

[Happy Pirate]

I always wonder how the round the world solo sailors cope with loneliness.

A friend of mine sailed around the world non stop unassisted a few years ago. He sought some professional advice on how to keep himself going for 180 odd days alone. Routine is the most important thing apparently. Checks of the rigging etch were made daily and long list of other routine jobs always done to give structure to a potentially structure less day.
He didn't have Skype either! Sat phone but they were very expensive.

Good point, Scottyk
routine is one of the most important sources of self-discipline and it is the mind's tendency to 'free-range' that is the main cause of distraction, frustration and eventual perturbation; at least when we take it outside of it's typical social norms and behaviours.
It's why I previously suggested doing a meditation retreat before venturing out into the 'unrestrained territories' (mental & physical) as it teaches both the rationale and the tools for a greater level of mental self-discipline. A need which may lie unheeded until one encounters problems of one's own creation; either through learned self-destructive behaviour patterns or the stray mental mischief of a runaway (truant) mind.
A great topic of discussion because it explores the territory beyond the accepted, recreational relationship with nature for which bushwalking could be accused (except for the lack of a better social, spiritual and mental model to judge it against)...
discussion is good...
Steve

[Happy Pirate]

I do have a lifestyle where if I wanted to, I could pack my bags and disappear for a couple of months, however, I don't really know anyone else who is willing to do that.even sure if it's the amount of time away that I feel is important. I think everyone has a limit to how much isolation they could put up with comfortably, and I would, at the very least like to experience that limit. I think I could easily go a couple of weeks by myself without too much trouble. ?

jickham
surely the very point of this exercise of yours - "going 'Into The Wild' for anywhere between 1.5 - 3 months. I feel this is developing as one of my spiritual goals in life" is not about "how much isolation they could put up with comfortably" but rather about at what point comfort collapses to (finally) give way to transcendence/revelation. I don't think you can get to that point without passing through the realm of discomfort first.

My next caveat would seem to be contrary, but is to question your experience in the bush. I have wandered off track for 24 -48 hours of wilderness fasting before but I suspect that one of the greatest 'groups' to die in the bush is those who disappear seeking a naive, extended relationship with nature.
I'm surprised and a little disappointed that no-one has yet quizzed you on these points.
Not meaning to be aggressive but these questions need to be asked.
cheers
Steve

[mikethepike]

I recall that in c. 1970, an older teenage girl went to live alone in retreat for some period of time on Maatsuyker Island (off S. Tas.) and Women's Weekly loved it - yes I was an avid reader!. All I remember is people expressing concern for her safety (and some her sanity) and how she hated the weather and rats there. Oh and she was found out to have taken a small stash of marijuana. Have you considered that jickham?

PS I'd choose Alaska. Can't see you getting away from anyone in Oz for more that a week. We regularly manage 7-10 days in NZ without seeing anyone, but it is a remote river, and I think we're pushing it.

Actually I don't believe this is the case at all but of course an absolute guarantee of no-one coming across your 'Do not disturb' sign is not possible almost wherever you are in the world although I recall the story of a wrecked sailor being adrift at sea for many months and no-one seeing him..

[David M]

Here is a guy that spent a year living in the northern wilderness of Canada but he was fully supplied and had a cabin etc.. http://youtu.be/2Mw1_OQBAvc He was living on Crown Land but I doubt if that is even permitted here.

[Giddy_up]

I also have the same capacity as the OP. I would like to do the same but not for as long, the suggestion that there is a complete disregard for safety or a compromise in the OP's ability is certainly "painting with the big brush". Things happen when your beyond help for 72 hours, some of those are life threatening. The 5 p's are a given, some thing are beyond control and the longer one exposes ones self to the elements the greater the risks within reason. Those same risks tends to plateau after a few weeks as the "explorer' becomes more proficient with their gear and their environs. The risks also manifest themselves later, usually based on diminishing resources. I don't think the OP plans to fast either, full rations make for resolute decisions, not ones made on hunger or searching for some other spiritual goal. Based on this and the OP's capacity to engage in such pursuits, my personal opinion is the risk exists but are diminished and worthy of pursuit.

[jickham]

It's true that the mind is it's own worst enemy when external stimulus is removed, although being in the bush is hardly being deprived of all stimulus, as is, I think, jickham's point.
Remove distractions and the mind will focus on what it has.
I for one, envy him(?) his opportunity to spend, not just time with nature, but actively pursue a certain transcendence that excludes distraction and trivia.
I wonder though, how removing the necessity to forage may skew and influence his relationship with nature since he will not experience it as a source of beneficent sustenance (and I'm not even a hunter) but merely a background for his temporary reclusiveness.
Jealous nonetheless...

Steve

Essentially yes, to remove distractions... It's not a Rambo trip trying to kill an elk and feed off it's liver

To be honest, I wasn't entirely certain of what I meant... I made the thread to see what others thought of the idea and then use that to refine my idea of what I really want.

I don't want it to be a test of survival, I think that is an unwise choice, and would much prefer to have my food and gear and be in isolation. Now it may be, in an extended period of isolation with little to do, I may teach myself a few things... starting fires with twigs, how to cook ants, recognise plants, learn the flaura and fauna, meditate, etc. I just want it to be a test of... well something... isolation. I feel if you try to examine it too closely you can miss the point entirely. When you're out there, you're not thinking "I'm here to survive, to be wild, to experience isolation." When I'm there, I just want to be there, no distractions, letting my mind wander, my feet take me where I want to go, and go back to quiet little camp every afternoon and think about whatever I want to think about.

The main concerns are:
Isolation... What happen's if I go crazy and have to leave? Well... I pack my bag, food, walk out and leave. This is dangerous as depending on where I am I may need to cross some hairy terrain, but that's bush walking, what we are all here to talk about and have enjoy / love doing.

If I fall and hurt my head which renders me unable to function: I could do that in the city, hell I'm on a ladder most days I work so I take this as a general life risk that people must get over.

General injury which renders me unable to walk or in need of urgent medical assistance. Take a PLB. I don't care what people say how this doesn't fully remove you from society, because you always have that 'get out of jail free' card. I think this can be ignore for two reasons. Safety and safety. One of the biggest criticisms of people going into the wild for a extended period and then not returning is that they didn't have a way of letting people know something was wrong. I'm not going to be, and don't want to be that unfortunate fella.

jickham
surely the very point of this exercise of yours - "going 'Into The Wild' for anywhere between 1.5 - 3 months. I feel this is developing as one of my spiritual goals in life" is not about "how much isolation they could put up with comfortably" but rather about at what point comfort collapses to (finally) give way to transcendence/revelation. I don't think you can get to that point without passing through the realm of discomfort first.

My next caveat would seem to be contrary, but is to question your experience in the bush. I have wandered off track for 24 -48 hours of wilderness fasting before but I suspect that one of the greatest 'groups' to die in the bush is those who disappear seeking a naive, extended relationship with nature.
I'm surprised and a little disappointed that no-one has yet quizzed you on these points.
Not meaning to be aggressive but these questions need to be asked.
cheers
Steve

Isolation is my discomfort, I am sure I will pass that point being by myself for such a period of time.
As about the the risks of dying or harm, what I said before. I would not attempt this if I was not prepared.

I also have the same capacity as the OP. I would like to do the same but not for as long, the suggestion that there is a complete disregard for safety or a compromise in the OP's ability is certainly "painting with the big brush". Things happen when your beyond help for 72 hours, some of those are life threatening. The 5 p's are a given, some thing are beyond control and the longer one exposes ones self to the elements the greater the risks within reason. Those same risks tends to plateau after a few weeks as the "explorer' becomes more proficient with their gear and their environs. The risks also manifest themselves later, usually based on diminishing resources. I don't think the OP plans to fast either, full rations make for resolute decisions, not ones made on hunger or searching for some other spiritual goal. Based on this and the OP's capacity to engage in such pursuits, my personal opinion is the risk exists but are diminished and worthy of pursuit.

It's important to question my ability and the idea. But I do not have a complete disregard for safety. Any suggestion is false - period. I do not want to die.
You're opinion is correct, I'm trying to learn as much as I can about this pursuit before I make an attempt.

I recall that in c. 1970, an older teenage girl went to live alone in retreat for some period of time on Maatsuyker Island (off S. Tas.) and Women's Weekly loved it - yes I was an avid reader!. All I remember is people expressing concern for her safety (and some her sanity) and how she hated the weather and rats there. Oh and she was found out to have taken a small stash of marijuana. Have you considered that jickham?

Only if it is from Holland. Speaking of which I am doing a trip there in February, as my partner is a Dutchy. But I don't like the idea of trying to smuggle it back through International Travel, most Asian and Middle Eastern countries don't take too kindly to that

Sorry for the belated reply guys, I have been working lots and have had internationals living at my house so it's been a busy couple of months