Main Range over 4 days

[Drew]

Hi there,

Most of my walking is in the Victorian Alps but I'm thinking of heading up Kosciuszco way at Easter for a change of scenery. I remember doing an overnight walk up there with my dad when I must have been only 6 or 7 but haven't been back since! I was thinking of doing this 4 day circuit from Guthega: http://www.wildwalks.com/bushwalking-an ... thega.html

Any other suggestions for a moderate to difficult 3 or 4 day walks in the area would be welcome.

Cheers,

Drew

[Lophophaps]

The walk is fine. One factor is that it's another hour or so to drive to Guthega from Thredbo. A start from Dead Horse Gap would get you on the Main Range faster. The disadvantage of that is that there will be tourists on the boardwalks, and there will be a certain amount of retracing steps. Can you give an example of a similarly graded walk in Victoria? Some people have differing views on what is medium and hard. Do you feel comfortable navigating off tracks?

[north-north-west]

Four days? Blimey, I've done that in two, over summer . . .

[Lophophaps]

NNW, yes. It's two slightly long days, but not especially hard. The detail in the track notes is staggering. I'm old school. Map, compass, go. No notes, no GPS, just a general description of the route with water and possible campsites. I've been on a few trips where the navigation was challenging. On one trip the map showed one track and there were five. Try skiing for eight days with just 30 minutes of visibility. Or with no map. (had to walk off the map, which is a good reason to carry a 1:100 showing more than the immediate walk area.)

An alternative. Leave the people and packs at Guthega Power Station. If you have two cars leave one car at Guthega, but if not the driver has to walk or cadge a lift from Guthega to GPS. Schink Pass, side-trip to Gungartan. Depending on time, camp on or near Rolling Ground. Days 2-4, Main Range: Tate (get on the ridge straight after Consett Stephens Pass), Twynum, Watsons, Townsend, Kosciuszko, Ramshead and back.

Is the ski-tube running at Easter? if so, Perisher - Guthega - Tate East Ridge - route as above - return via Rams Head Range and Porcupine.

[north-north-west]

I'm old school. Map, compass, go. No notes, no GPS, just a general description of the route with water and possible campsites.

Last five years in the Snowies I even gave up with deciding on a route, just made it up as I went along. Provided the conditions don't get too bad, it's easy enough, although I have gotten a little off line in heavy fog once or twice and had to correct things.

Four days if you're used to a bit of off-track stuff, you can get to Gungartan via Disappointment from Munyang - never mind the track, just go up the spur from near the snow gauge - then across to Dicky Coopers and to the Main Range via the Rollings Grounds, Consett Stephens, Tate, Anton. Do the loop to Rawson Pass, then Kangaroo Ridge to Stilwell, track to the Snowy, cross, then it's an easy off-track section past Hedley Tarn and up Crummer Spur to Little Twynam, where you have the option of cutting up to Twynam and retracing your inward route as far as Tate, then down to Guthega via Tate East Ridge, or going straight down to the Illawong Bridge and into Guthega via the track.
That leaves the roadbash back to Munyang, but there's always the possibility of cadging a ride from someone.

Probably my favourite short loop in the Snowies, although it does miss the Ramsheads.

[Drew]

Thanks people. I did think 4 days seemed a lot for so few km but thought there might be a good reason. Haven't looked on a map yet. Still, I prefer a leisurely 4 days to killing myself over 2.

A bit of off track navigation is fine. Regarding difficulty level Lophophaps, I'd call the Viking Circuit moderate/difficult. Actually I probably want something that's more moderate than difficult to save some energy for the long drive home!

[Lophophaps]

NNW, if KNP is reasonably familiar to the walker then I agree that the trip can be made up as the walk progresses, with a few peaks in the list. The trip you have outlined sounds good. I've done most elements of it. You say to "go up the spur from near the snow gauge". Is this at Munyang or at the gully at 274787, nearly at Disappointment Spur Hut? I've skied down Disappointment Spur.

From NE of Little Twynum there's a lovely terrace north across to the old 4WD track, which I believe is not on modern maps. You will be aware of the pad from Twynum to Tate and beyond. East of Consett Stephen the pad stops; The Rolling Ground requires navigation

Drew, killing yourself is contrary to park rules. Visitors must clean up their own dead. I would rate the Viking Circuit a hard trip on a scale of easy, medium, hard and very hard. NNW's suggestion is challenging but not unduly so, and should fit your needs.

It might be time to look at a map. Insurance also.

[north-north-west]

NNW, if KNP is reasonably familiar to the walker then I agree that the trip can be made up as the walk progresses, with a few peaks in the list. The trip you have outlined sounds good. I've done most elements of it. You say to "go up the spur from near the snow gauge". Is this at Munyang or at the gully at 274787, nearly at Disappointment Spur Hut? I've skied down Disappointment Spur.

Cross the bridge near the PS as though you're taking the track to the hut, but instead of going up, keep on the road that curves around the base of the spur. It climbs a bit and doubles back and one arm of it ends next to a snow gauge. This is maybe 10 mins from the bridge, max, at 269765 (actually, the easting is more like 269.5). From there you push through a bit of light bush uphill roughly nor-easterly until you come out onto the more open ground on the northern face of the spur. I think there's another arm of that road that leade further around to the north but haven't checked it.
It doesn't take long to get out in the open country, and climb up to the shed (locked) and radio tower(s) a little way up.

[north-north-west]

NNW, if KNP is reasonably familiar to the walker then I agree that the trip can be made up as the walk progresses, with a few peaks in the list. The trip you have outlined sounds good. I've done most elements of it. You say to "go up the spur from near the snow gauge". Is this at Munyang or at the gully at 274787, nearly at Disappointment Spur Hut? I've skied down Disappointment Spur.

Cross the bridge near the PS as though you're taking the track to the hut, but instead of going up, keep on the road that curves around the base of the spur. It climbs a bit and doubles back and one arm of it ends next to a snow gauge. This is maybe 10 mins from the bridge, max, at 269765 (actually, the easting is more like 269.5). From there you push through a bit of light bush uphill roughly nor-easterly until you come out onto the more open ground toward the northern face of the spur. I think there's another arm of that road that leads further around to the north but haven't checked it.
It doesn't take long to get out in the open country, and climb up to the shed (locked) and radio tower(s) a little way up.

[Lophophaps]

NNW, thanks. I was unaware of this. My ancient map has the road in a different place, right on the river. It looks like a mini-Staircase, climbing 700 metre in 7 km. Maybe a bit more climbing due to the bumps.

[Drew]

Thanks, I'll get out the map when I get a chance and have a look at NNW's suggested route.

Lophophaps, I'm always sure to clean up my own remains after killing myself.

[Lophophaps]

Lophophaps, I'm always sure to clean up my own remains after killing myself.

Drew, you had me puzzled at first but I've it worked out. There's an app that does this. The one I'm thinking of is a cleanup and defragmenting app, works on Windows 7, Lion X, most mobile phones and GPSs. It does not work on Win 8. Not much does. Maybe we could test this. I'm not volunteering.

[Drew]

I'm old school. Map, compass, go. No notes, no GPS, just a general description of the route with water and possible campsites.

Last five years in the Snowies I even gave up with deciding on a route, just made it up as I went along. Provided the conditions don't get too bad, it's easy enough, although I have gotten a little off line in heavy fog once or twice and had to correct things.

Four days if you're used to a bit of off-track stuff, you can get to Gungartan via Disappointment from Munyang - never mind the track, just go up the spur from near the snow gauge - then across to Dicky Coopers and to the Main Range via the Rollings Grounds, Consett Stephens, Tate, Anton. Do the loop to Rawson Pass, then Kangaroo Ridge to Stilwell, track to the Snowy, cross, then it's an easy off-track section past Hedley Tarn and up Crummer Spur to Little Twynam, where you have the option of cutting up to Twynam and retracing your inward route as far as Tate, then down to Guthega via Tate East Ridge, or going straight down to the Illawong Bridge and into Guthega via the track.
That leaves the roadbash back to Munyang, but there's always the possibility of cadging a ride from someone.

Probably my favourite short loop in the Snowies, although it does miss the Ramsheads.

Having a look on the map this loop looks good. Where would you suggest as campsites along this route? We'd probably drive part way up from Melbourne the night before and then have most of the day for walking on the first day. A shorter last day would be preferable I guess. I was thinking first night at or near Schlink Hilton but that's maybe too short a first day. Any good spots on The Rolling Ground?

[north-north-west]

There's good camping near Schlinck Pass or anywhere along Dicky Cooper's Creek or, for a shorter first day, at Gungartan Saddle. For a longer first day (and I agree that to Schlinck is shortish, I've only stopped there the once and that was in very bad weather) there is reliable water near the saddle on the far side of Dicky Cooper's and in reasonable conditions that would be a decent campsite. There is also good camping near Consett Stephens.
I've pitched just under Mann Bluff a couple of times - there are reliable soaks about 100m down the hillside - or you can go a bit further to the pools near Anderson. On the Main Range best campsites are beside the creek at the head of Sentinel Spur, or out towards Townsend, or pick a spot in the long valley to the east of Kangaroo Ridge if you get that far. Lots of options. Where you park yourself really depends on how far/long you want to walk each day.
Just make sure you don't camp in the catchment areas for any of the glacial lakes. And enjoy.

[Drew]

Great, thanks north-north-west. What map do you recommend? I've got the Spatial Visions 1:50,000 Kosciuszco Alpine Area. I know a lot of people hate the Spatial Visions maps and prefer VicMaps for Victoria.

[north-north-west]

I've always used the CMA 1:25,000 maps for the NSW part of the Alps. I just like the extra detail. It's a bit of a personal thing and I suppose to some extent depends how good you are at navigating off a map and how well you know the area. The SV maps generally have a fairly good reputation and if you're used to them they'd probably do as the navigation is fairly straightforward for the most part - the Rolling Grounds is the only really tricky bit, especially in bad weather. And maybe the top of Disappointment where the connecting ridge jinks southwestish and then northwards to Gungartan.

[Lophophaps]

I have 1:25 CMA, mainly as they have been looked after and continue to work. The folds are more sticky tape than map... the Mount Kosciuszko sheet seems to cover all of the proposed walk unless you go north of Schlink area. The scale of your preferred map depends on how comfortable you are with detail. My first walks were with 1":1 mile, and 1:100, adequate and not so good respectively. I'd probably take 1:50 maps as they cover more ground, which means less maps to carry and easier sighting on distant features. In my view there is minimal difference between the detail on a 1:25 and 1:50.

I've seen but not used the SV maps, and these seem to be adequate. I picked up minor error on one SV map. On Bogong High Plains maps many years ago there was a creek that went over a ridge and vegetation which stopped at the edge of a map. Fun.

[Drew]

In the end it was decided by the majority of the party that the Snowys were too far to drive for the Easter long weekend. Still, thanks for all the info NNW and Lophophaps - I'm sure I'll come back to this thread in future!

[Lophophaps]

It is a bit of a drive for just four days. However, there is great possibility in a summer walk, taking 8-10 days. Starting from Round Mountain minimises the driving and crowds, with some quite lovely places off the main routes. I've been going to KNP in summer for decades, and continually find the place quite enchanting. The days work out well this year: leave on 26 December, return on Sunday 4 January 2015.

[Drew]

As promised, I've returned to this thread! Not quite sure yet if it will happen, but I'm thinking of a 4 or 5 day walk in the Snowy Mountains over New Years.

The routes suggested earlier in the thread look good and I'm definitely considering them. 4 or 5 days, maybe starting from Guthega PS, up to Schlink Hilton via Gungartan, south over The Rolling Ground, Mt Tate, Anton, Twynam, onto the Main Range, maybe Ramshead, back to Guthega (hopefully to find a lift back to Guthega PS).

However I'm keen to minimise the drive time. According to Google Maps, it'll take 7 hours 11 minutes to get from my house to Guthega Power Station. Starting from Dead Horse Gap would cut 70 minutes from the drive. So maybe a similar circuit from there.

Or, as Lophophaps suggests, starting from Round Mountain would reduce the drive time even further. 5 hours 33 minutes says Google. This is tempting. Would it be feasible to get down to the Main Range and back up to Round Mountain over 5 days? Or should I just stick to the Jagungal area? Any good routes up there you'd suggest? I hear there's a new book on Jagungal. Maybe I'll get my hands on that for some ideas.

Thanks.

[north-north-west]

Would it be feasible to get down to the Main Range and back up to Round Mountain over 5 days?

They'd be very long days.

Or should I just stick to the Jagungal area? Any good routes up there you'd suggest? I hear there's a new book on Jagungal. Maybe I'll get my hands on that for some ideas.

From Round Mtn, 15 Mile Ridge, down to Happy Jacks impoundment (you can pick up pads that skirt the reservoir to the dams/bridges or take the easy and considerably less fun route on the MVO), up to Wuthering Heights (again, very steep pads or the MVO) and across to Far Bald. Follow the fire trail to Doubtful Creek then off-track up along Farm Ridge over Jackys Lookout to Jagungal Saddle and up the big Jagged One, or stay on the FT and use the walking track to reach the summit. Easy cross country stuff for the most part. From the ridge you can follow whichever line suits you south to Mawsons/Kerries and loop back around via Valentines and Grey Mare Hut/Back Flat Creek. As before, there are tracked options, as well as cross country. Can be lengthened with the route along the Grey Mare Range to Pretty Plain (two or three badly overgrown sections in this) via the old Strumbo Fire Trail and the Dargalls.

That book would probably show something like this, maybe as a combination of various tracks and routes. It's brilliant country.

[Drew]

Thanks NNW, sounds good. I'll have a look at this on the map. I am really keen to do the Main Range but perhaps I imagine it will be very busy post Xmas so perhaps it's best to leave it for another time anyway.

[Lophophaps]

Thanks NNW, sounds good. I'll have a look at this on the map. I am really keen to do the Main Range but perhaps I imagine it will be very busy post Xmas so perhaps it's best to leave it for another time anyway.

NNW's route is one of many. The Jagungal region is quite open, and with some limitations you can walk anywhere. It's not possible to go from Round Mountain to the start of the Main Range (Tate) and back in five days without a huge rush. Dead Horse Gap is probably a better place to start for the Main Range. Another option is to leave the Main Range until you have a week and include sundry side-trips like Townsend, Watsons Crags, Sentinal, etc.

There's a lot of lovely places that can be reached from Round Mountain, and for a trip of 4-5 days this may be a better option. The Main Range will be busy in summer, especially between Twynum and Kosciuszko-top of the chair lift. Aim to camp near Kosciuszko and clear it by 9 am or so, before the masses arrive. Except near huts there will not be many people north of Schlink-Mawsons. The more isolated hust have very little traffic.

[Drew]

Thanks Lophophaps. A week on the Main Range sounds like a great idea. Not sure when that'll happen though...

Will it be easy enough to find water in the Jagungal area? Looks like it's been pretty dry up there for the past few weeks.

[north-north-west]

Plenty of creeks and rivers. I seldom had to carry for more than a few hours at a time when walking up there. On the route I suggested, for instance, between the first impoundment and Doubtful Creek crossing there's not much that's easy to access except near Boo Bee Hut. Between Doubtful Creek and Jagungal Saddle the ridgeline tends to be fairly dry, although there are often soaks lower down and the fire trail crosses a number of smaller feeder creeks, while the walk track to the summit from the FT leaves from another creek junction. Cross country from Jagungal to Mawsons there are a number of creek and river crossings, plus Bluff Tarn and, again, more on the firetrail. Get a good map and plan your route and campsites accordingly.

[Lophophaps]

Agree with NNW. I've camped high and have always found water within an acceptable distance. If approaching Jagungal from the ridge to the south and slightly west, traverse into the broad gully. Tate has water a short distance down, SE from memory (don't have a map with me). Townsend has creeks close to the summit. I reckon you'd be hard pressed to walk for more than two hours in most places near Jagungal and not find water close by. Just drop off the ridge into a likely gully and there's invariably water. The beauty of near Jagungal is that it's possible to stop pretty well anywhere. Some days water is closer than desired, falling from the sky. NPWS is reviewing this shortcoming.

[north-north-west]

Some days water is closer than desired, falling from the sky. NPWS is reviewing this shortcoming.

[Drew]

Maybe it's just been too long since I had a really wet walk but I can cope with the water falling from the sky. But a friend who just finished the AAWT tells me that the march flies in the Snowys are horrendous at the moment. That's something I'd like NPWS to do something about!

[Drew]

From Round Mtn, 15 Mile Ridge, down to Happy Jacks impoundment (you can pick up pads that skirt the reservoir to the dams/bridges or take the easy and considerably less fun route on the MVO), up to Wuthering Heights (again, very steep pads or the MVO) and across to Far Bald. Follow the fire trail to Doubtful Creek then off-track up along Farm Ridge over Jackys Lookout to Jagungal Saddle and up the big Jagged One, or stay on the FT and use the walking track to reach the summit. Easy cross country stuff for the most part. From the ridge you can follow whichever line suits you south to Mawsons/Kerries and loop back around via Valentines and Grey Mare Hut/Back Flat Creek. As before, there are tracked options, as well as cross country. Can be lengthened with the route along the Grey Mare Range to Pretty Plain (two or three badly overgrown sections in this) via the old Strumbo Fire Trail and the Dargalls.

We're heading off on Monday. Looks like we're just doing the 4 days rather than 5. Given that, I'm thinking of just doing the circuit in the Daly's "Take a Walk" book:
Day 1 - Round Mountain to Derschkos
Day 2 - Derschkos to Valentine Hut
Day 3 - Valentine Hut to O'Keefes (and Jagungal)
Day 4 - O'Keefes to Round Mountain

I'm still a bit tempted by the 15 Mile Ridge - Farbald - Doubtful Creek section, but this probably wouldn't leave time to get down to Valentines. I'm guessing it would take the best part of 2 days to get to Jagungal going via Forbald etc? In this case perhaps the next two days could be spent going out via Mt Toolong or some other detour to the west (rather than just straight up Round Mountain Trail which would only take 1 day from Derschkos). Not sure which way to go. Is either route more interesting than the other?

Thanks

[north-north-west]

I prefer the Far Bald route, but that's possibly because there are far fewer people who go that way.
Yeah, two days to Jagungal is about right, although it might take longer when you don't know the terrain. I've done it often enough that picking the best lines and following the vaguer bits of the track doesn't need any thought.

Round to Derschko's is a short day. Fair enough if you're driving in that morning.