Camping as permanent accomodation

[Myself]

So here's the situation:

The last 15 years have landed me sharing houses with a mix of people, from junkies and cochroaches, to my present place in an upper-middle class neighbourhood with a woman who now drives me insane, and the feeling is mutual. I've been given my marching orders as usual which is fine (though I'll desperately miss the dog, having been with her every minute for the past several years now).

My options - as I see them - are either (i) move to some other house or shared accomodation and deal with adjusting (or not adjusting) to whoever happens to hold the lease, (ii) move to a caravan park or similarly low budget place on my own, either of which will cost me at least half my weekly income in rent alone, or the third option: get a tent, pack a pack and fly or greyhound my way to a nice spot on a river, near enough to a town that I can walk to a bus-stop or similar and travel into town each week for food.

I've only just decided upon option (iii) being the best course of action, but am already slurping-in as much information as possible on every possible known & unknown that could arise. I have about two months before I have to be out, thus two months before departure.

The location - must - be close enough to a freshwater stretch of river that I can access it on foot for water and fishing, and close enough to some kind of civilization that I can walk there too. Mobile reception must also be within walking distance, but ideally I wouldn't have to walk to get a signal.

Outside of those requisites I haven't picked a river yet, let alone a section that looks suitable, but having grown up in NSW (been in Adelaide for over a decade now) I'm thinking anywhere from Forster -> Byron would be where I'd most want to live, especially after all these years of horrid Adelaide dry-heat summers.

There are many pros and a few cons that I've listed ehile contemplating such a radical life-change, but this post has gone on about long enough really.

What I'd like from you, is any tips and pointers, good locales .. Anything that might minimise the number of "f$&%# why didn't I think of that!!" moments I'll encounter once I'm half way up a riverbank in the middle of nowhere.

The main reason I want to do this, is I have no ties to anyone or anything and - being 40 now - I might simply not have the chance to give it a bash in another ten years.

Bring-on the advice!

[perfectlydark]

Many of us probably have similar feelings at one stage or another, but then come back down. I dont want to be rude here but it will not be as easy as it seems. Gear breaks, where does the money come to fix.it? What happens in an emergency? How are you even paying for food? Plus the legality of permananently camping somewhere, not to mention yes, you will become that weirdo people will want to avoid and will be very uncomfortable for any bushwalker who passes by your camp

[Moondog55]

I have felt the same many, many times.
The biggest problem is that permanent camps really do need much bigger tents than you would think which means a car or ute is a necessary evil and the locals don't really like folk doing what you propose for long periods of time which means moving all the time.
Best solution is a decently large camper plus a quickly erected tent like the OZ-Tent.
Add a camouflage net or 2 if you want to be discrete /stealthy.
You will find many little "Extras" handy as well, A camp cot if you don't have a bed in a vehicle, a proper portable fire-pit and windscreen, a solar shower, shovel
Cooking over a woodfire is possible and not all that hard but doing so in the pouring rain is a PITA so a cheap gas stove becomes a need not a luxury in the long run if comfort is part of the aim.
But there is nothing at all wrong with the grey nomad lifestyle
Good luck with mobile reception with this lifestyle, they really are incompatible

[andrewa]

Moondog - "myeslf" is only 40---hardly likely to be a "grey" nomad, but possible!

Living in Melbourne, I've occasionally (in dark moments!) contemplated such a worse case scenario, albeit fortunately not likely to be on the cards.....from here, I'd probably head down the Mornington peninsula, and do a long term camp along the foreshore near Rye/Rosebud etc.....presumably there are similar places up the NSW coast near Byron/Brunswick heads, or near Eden/Merimbula etc.

I can see it as a viable option, but, yes, you'd need a gas cooker, and you'd ideally need to be in a designated campground, with showers/toilet etc. I think living in a bush camp long term would be challenging, although I do recall a "hermit" who had a permanent dwelling on the Upper Murray near Biggara - no where near a town though.

A

[Moondog55]

Hey ? I said Grey nomad "LIFESTYLE" intending that to be a comment on that way of life; how=a-bout "Salt & Pepper" nomad for those too young to be on the OAP

One thing I have learned from people who lived under canvas by necessity is that a double walled tent with flysheet is needed in winter or as I intend a wood heater; if anywhere other than the mild tropics.

[Clusterpod]

We have quite happily lived in an oztent (RV5) for the last three months.

Back into the wind and it serves very well in all but the worst weather.

Of course this was summer, and it gets almost unbearably hot inside once the temp goes over 35. Couldn't speak of its performance in icy conditions.

For semi-permanant camps you can never have too much shade. I rig an extra tarp, or cotton sheets as side-walls. They damp down nicely to give you the evaporative coolth.

From experience, its fires that will peeve locals the most. Closely followed by litter and tearing up local dirt roads after rain.

Find a nice piece of unallocated crown land somewhere. State to state regulations may differ, but you can have lengthy stays there.

[GPSGuided]

No experiences here. But I wondered about the personal hygiene and presentation after living in a camp for a while. Can one still be presentable for employment (by common social expectations)?

[David M]

No experiences here. But I wondered about the personal hygiene and presentation after living in a camp for a while. Can one still be presentable for employment (by common social expectations)?

Personal hygeine is very important, especially living a lifestyle away from permanent amenities. As a solar shower only works on sunny days what about a small gas powered hot water heater that can be purchased in car camping shops? Also, a small portable manual washing machine which can also be bought in such places. Hopefully you will be near a public toilet you can use, otherwise I am not sure how good typical camp toilets are as a long term solution as you still have to appropriately dispose of the waste. It is important for the OP not to "let himself go" and live like a wild man.

[perfectlydark]

For clothes a washing board should work (no power needed). If you can find one, or just make it.
For personal hygene I have always considered a gym membership to be beneficial if you can afford to do so (showers, fitness regime etc)

[photohiker]

I think the biggest issue of a long term camp near population is the inevitable attention of people who wish you no good. There would be nothing worse than coming back from work or shops or whatever to find your campsite trashed and belongings missing or wrecked.

A campground attached to a caravan might be a better choice as it gives a little more security and access to hygiene.

[GPSGuided]

Thinking of this again, we now have numerous homeless city residents in Sydney CBD who are effectively permanently camped under the various road overpasses and other locations. They potentially have the various charity and commercial resources at their disposal.

[LandSailor]

Ive often thought a "stealth camper van" would be an interesting way to live for a while. You set up an anonymous looking white (4wd?) commercial van as a fully equipped campervan inside. You could even have a magnetic removable sign like "Kitchen waste removal" on the side and hang a couple of white overalls inside to cab in plain view to discourage undue attention. Park and sleep wherever you like at no cost (still need access to bathroom facilities of course).

[perfectlydark]

Landsailer I have seen youtube videos with that exact concept people have entire rigs powered and all. They park near a wifi hotspot for internet access and everything.
Love the idea of living off the grid. Pity we cant access super until 60 (itll be at least that for me, im 31) in 5 years ill have enough super to comfortably live off the interest earned even at todays low interest rates. Of course, with a family, its still a fantasy lol

[ofuros]

Alternatively, a small yacht moored along one of our vast lands inland waterways, would be great way
to drop out of the rat race for a while.
Get tired of the location, weigh anchor, sail or motor up/downstream or around to the next coastal inlet.

[GPSGuided]

Ive often thought a "stealth camper van" would be an interesting way to live for a while. You set up an anonymous looking white (4wd?) commercial van as a fully equipped campervan inside. You could even have a magnetic removable sign like "Kitchen waste removal" on the side and hang a couple of white overalls inside to cab in plain view to discourage undue attention. Park and sleep wherever you like at no cost (still need access to bathroom facilities of course).

Looks a bit odd when it starts to bounce in the parking lot, in the middle of the night...

[LandSailor]

Pity we cant access super until 60 (itll be at least that for me, im 31) in 5 years ill have enough super to comfortably live off the interest earned even at todays low interest rates. Of course, with a family, its still a fantasy lol

Yes this kind of thing is alot easier when younger. Someone once told me you are born into slavery and you have to work to get your freedom back.
Sometimes seems like the opposite is true though

[LandSailor]

Looks a bit odd when it starts to bounce in the parking lot, in the middle of the night...

Im sure there might be a few umm "technical details" that need to be ironed out

[Giddy_up]

I think the stealth camper van would be a great option, allows you to move around freely and you could get seasonal work through out Australia as fruit and crops need to be picked. Passion fruit harvest is in full swing here in qld at the moment, strawberries need to be picked from May through to November. Plenty of options for a bit of cash flow for food, rego and maintenance.

Not sure what your set up cost would be on the van but if you could do the work yourself it would make it more viable.

[Onestepmore]

I can vouch for the canvas Oztent - we have one for our base camping/school holidays etc.
http://www.oztent.com/oztentrange
The base tent is very fast to erect (but we also use the mesh floors, and fly and side walls etc so lots of guying out) BUT it's big - 2 m long, so it won't fit in a car. You'll need to use a trailer, or there is a Rhino racks narrow basket that fits on roofracks, or you can just secure it directly onto the racks. They also make a good side car shade called a Foxwing. http://www.oztent.com/foxwing
Oztent has recently come up with a similar type tent that will fit inside a car, called the Jet tent http://www.oztent.com/jettentrange

Another option if you're going to move a fair bit and won't need to use your car on a day to day basis are the car topper tents, such as Kulkyne's
http://www.kulkyne.com/au/Roof-Top-Tents/
They also make a relatively inexpensive side awning
http://www.kulkyne.com/au/4WD-Awnings/

Have fun- I think a lot of us think about being able to do this

[TerraMer]

Go for it but consider a few things first.

What are the council, national park/state forest or water ways regulations about camping or mooring. You will find most have a maximum time limit before you need to move your camp. There are usually loopholes so you only need to move to the next clearing or sheltered bay and simply go back and forth between the two sites each time you need to move again.

Your power source. Do you have a solar charger adequate for your needs or will you be recharging at the laundromat or cafe?

Your environmental footprint. Will you be relying on fire for cooking and heating or will you have safer less impacting options? Fire wood collection and general movement around a campsite has an impact that you may not see until it is obvious or a visitor points it out to you. Regularly moving your tent will also avoid killing the grass under it.

Hygiene and avoiding contaminating water. I free camp for long periods of time in small tents (months in a 1 man tent or just under a tarp in a mozzie net), I have lived in a small sedan and in more luxury in a kombi pop top. Finding places to toilet and wash regularly without contaminating creeks and rivers and billabongs was/is very important to me. It is okay to take a dip without soap just to freshen up but the grime builds up over time so it is good to know how to set up a bucket shower far enough away from your water source so as not to contaminate it. Same goes for washing dishes.

Rubbish disposal. Sometimes, just burying or leaving it out to decompose or let the ants clean it isn't good enough. I have walked past and reluctantly but unavoidably through long term camps sprawled out on coast tracks and they smell disgusting and look like a tip, you know that smell coming from the bins at boat ramps with fish cleaning tables. Just carry your rubbish out regularly. If you keep your camp clean and ship shape you won't attract negative attention and it won't be so difficult to move it when authorities ask you to. Keep rubbish away from wildlife because you should avoid desensitising them.

Are you mentally prepared for the isolation and do you have a Plan B to fall back on if it doesn't work or you get sick?

[perfectlydark]

That is a fantastic post Terramer. Well.summed up

[icefest]

Fitting signature GPSG...

[Jaala]

If you look hard enough, you'll find plenty of 'abandoned' private land fitting your description. If you can manage to stay long enough, make some improvements, perhaps even find out if rates are being paid and if not pay them, you'll have a chance of legally claiming said land. This does not work for crown land. There have been cases of people successfully doing this. I do know one person personally, who stayed on a property for just under the required timeframe before he was discovered by the landowners who live overseas. They asked him to leave but he stood his ground and they now have a binding agreement in place allowing him to stay on until such time as he dies if he so wishes. Of course there are moral implications in doing this but you can find out how to contact the owners and information about the property etc. Another option is to approach owners with very large properties and simply asking if you can camp, you may even be able to offer to keep an eye on livestock. Livestock duffing/rustling is big business. But then you'd perhaps have any stream contaminated. Not necessarily though.

[puredingo]

I was going to suggest something along the lines like Jaala. You can approach a remote land owner and pitch the propersition of caretaking his property. The owners will usually have an old caravan or shed not in use you can bunk in and all you will be required to do is the odd job and make sure trespassers are kept in check. And the odd job to keep you occupied isn't a bad thing, it maybe the only saving grace that's stops you going stark, raving mad whithin a year due to the nerve wracking solitude...Mankind is a social animal and only a special few can survive without some form of human interaction from time to time.

[Myself]

Jesus lookat all the replies!

I checked back a day after posting and saw none, figured I wouldn't get any, and abandoned the checking of my OP

Just on my way out, but I'll read everyone's replies when I get back and start replying. I got a decent compass other day - http://www.suunto.com/en-AU/Products/Co ... C-2360GDL/ - and I have about 2 months to plan and prep.

Half the people I've told my plans to tell me I'm insane, while the other half reakon it's an amazing idea, and an exceptionsl adventure long as I plan right and equip for everything.

[Myself]

If you look hard enough, you'll find plenty of 'abandoned' private land fitting your description. If you can manage to stay long enough, make some improvements, perhaps even find out if rates are being paid and if not pay them, you'll have a chance of legally claiming said land. This does not work for crown land. There have been cases of people successfully doing this. I do know one person personally, who stayed on a property for just under the required timeframe before he was discovered by the landowners who live overseas. They asked him to leave but he stood his ground and they now have a binding agreement in place allowing him to stay on until such time as he dies if he so wishes. Of course there are moral implications in doing this but you can find out how to contact the owners and information about the property etc. Another option is to approach owners with very large properties and simply asking if you can camp, you may even be able to offer to keep an eye on livestock. Livestock duffing/rustling is big business. But then you'd perhaps have any stream contaminated. Not necessarily though.

Wow great story.

[SteveJ]

We had an artist come and stay on our farm for a year in a small self contained and private autonomous studio down the bottom of our farm, he did a few jobs here and there in exchange for food and to cover his 'board'. It was a good arrangement with no money involved that worked for him and us, he did stuff on the farm that I did not have time to do and we provided food and a place for him to live on his own free of bills. This led us to join the WOOFERs organisation (Willing Workers On Organic Farms) where a range of people come and stay, in exchange for a few hours work per day we provide accommodation and food, anything from a few days to a more long term arrangement. We live within pushbike distance of town and the fact that we grow most of our own food helps to reduce the need to leave the farm. I am sure there would be someone in the woofer network that would take on "Myself" longer term if an agreeable arrangement could be made. It would be legal living, a good chance it would be better than a tent it is private, with as much or as little work/ involvement as required by both parties. Such alternate living arrangements already exist.

http://www.wwoof.com.au/

[David M]

If you look hard enough, you'll find plenty of 'abandoned' private land fitting your description. If you can manage to stay long enough, make some improvements, perhaps even find out if rates are being paid and if not pay them, you'll have a chance of legally claiming said land. This does not work for crown land. There have been cases of people successfully doing this. I do know one person personally, who stayed on a property for just under the required timeframe before he was discovered by the landowners who live overseas. They asked him to leave but he stood his ground and they now have a binding agreement in place allowing him to stay on until such time as he dies if he so wishes. Of course there are moral implications in doing this but you can find out how to contact the owners and information about the property etc. Another option is to approach owners with very large properties and simply asking if you can camp, you may even be able to offer to keep an eye on livestock. Livestock duffing/rustling is big business. But then you'd perhaps have any stream contaminated. Not necessarily though.

This concept is legally known as "adverse possession". You would need to look at the relevant laws in each state.

[David M]

Here is a concept for a bicycle pulled microhouse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZRTd1S ... ata_player

There are a number of others on YouTube. If I had one of tbese I would put an electric motor on the bike and batteries in the trailer (in addition to a battery pack on the bike if you wanted to disconnect the bike for shopping etc.). I would recharge the batteries from the solar panel on the trailer plus have a very small petrol generator as a back up.

[north-north-west]

We had an artist come and stay on our farm for a year in a small self contained and private autonomous studio down the bottom of our farm, he did a few jobs here and there in exchange for food and to cover his 'board'. It was a good arrangement with no money involved that worked for him and us, he did stuff on the farm that I did not have time to do and we provided food and a place for him to live on his own free of bills. This led us to join the WOOFERs organisation (Willing Workers On Organic Farms) where a range of people come and stay, in exchange for a few hours work per day we provide accommodation and food, anything from a few days to a more long term arrangement. We live within pushbike distance of town and the fact that we grow most of our own food helps to reduce the need to leave the farm. I am sure there would be someone in the woofer network that would take on "Myself" longer term if an agreeable arrangement could be made. It would be legal living, a good chance it would be better than a tent it is private, with as much or as little work/ involvement as required by both parties. Such alternate living arrangements already exist.

http://www.wwoof.com.au/

I would love something like this, long-term. Permanent, in fact. As long as it gives me sufficient time off for bushwalking. Even paying a nominal amount for rent (I'd rather sort my own food).