NEW PRODUCT ALERT - DeLorme inReach Explorer

[wayno]

Navigate, create waypoints, log your trip and find your way back. Send and receive text messages. Trigger an interactive SOS. Plan, track and share your journey. You can do all of this from one rugged handheld device with 100% global coverage from Iridium. You can also pair it with your mobile device to access topographic maps and U.S. NOAA charts.

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-i ... plorer.php

[north-north-west]

Ten minutes minimum between tracking waypoints. One can cover a lot of ground in that time. Useless.

[GPSGuided]

Ummm... Won't be long before Garmin will also get into this satellite communication game. Technologies are merging. And the US subscription plan options are so much better than what's offered on our shores, again!

[Strider]

I would still like to see a separate power source for the SOS function.

[GPSGuided]

To me, 2-way satellite communication is a different product category to PLB. I can imagine I would want a Garmin GPS unit that has satellite comm functionalities plus a PLB, just like what I have now. Satellite comms (text) are just for general messages with the family or other points of contacts eg. Calling for a ride. Not to be depended on in life threatening situations. It's a good sized market with real demands.

[Strider]

To me, 2-way satellite communication is a different product category to PLB. I can imagine I would want a Garmin GPS unit that has satellite comm functionalities plus a PLB, just like what I have now. Satellite comms (text) are just for general messages with the family or other points of contacts eg. Calling for a ride. Not to be depended on in life threatening situations. It's a good sized market with real demands.

Then why does it have a prominent "SOS" button on the front of the unit?

[GPSGuided]

Then why does it have a prominent "SOS" button on the front of the unit?

Obviously that's only one of the functionalities and the buyer does not have to use it. Not a basis for criticism of the device.

[photohiker]

Ten minutes minimum between tracking waypoints. One can cover a lot of ground in that time. Useless.

If you look at the plans, you can opt for the 'Extreme' plan and have 2 minute tracking. That is still way more coarse than a garmin GPS though, ~200m at a good walking pace between points.

Battery life, tracking only with clear view of sky: 100 hours. So about 12 days @ 8 hours per day. No mention of battery use while sending messages and fiddling with GPS. Non-replaceable batteries. Tiny screen.

I'll keep my original InReach thanks.

[north-north-west]

Ten minutes minimum between tracking waypoints. One can cover a lot of ground in that time. Useless.

If you look at the plans, you can opt for the 'Extreme' plan and have 2 minute tracking. That is still way more coarse than a garmin GPS though, ~200m at a good walking pace between points.

Didn't check plans, just the specs on the hardware & firmware. Even 200m is a lot compared to my Triton - as long as it gets a signal, it tracks every single change of direction.

[Strider]

Then why does it have a prominent "SOS" button on the front of the unit?

Obviously that's only one of the functionalities and the buyer does not have to use it. Not a basis for criticism of the device.

I think it is it biggest downfall - i.e. If you are not a PLB, you shouldn't pretend to be one. This *&%$#! costs lives.

[GPSGuided]

I think it is it biggest downfall - i.e. If you are not a PLB, you shouldn't pretend to be one. This *&%$#! costs lives.

Well, whilst I can understand your angle, that SOS button still encapsulates an aspect of emergency functionality. It's just a quick button to transmit a location (plus any other preset message) to someone, much better than not having anything, not as if it specifically states it's a replacement for PLBs. In any case, even a conventional PLB has limitations eg. 24hr battery life. Look at MH370, its 30 days battery life turned out to be a major limitation. It's all a question of degree. It's just a different class of device for those who need 2-way communication. What really costs lives are poor equipment choice and poor decisions in the outdoors.

[photohiker]

Even 200m is a lot compared to my Triton - as long as it gets a signal, it tracks every single change of direction.

Sure, so does my Etrex. The internal GPS in the InReach Explorer internally maintains it's GPS co-ordinates as well and shows a detailed breadcrumb trail on screen, presumably transferable to your smartphone. This is in addition to the location logging via satellite. Previous models of InReach do not do this.

We could (successfully) argue that the handheld GPS devices are superior for their GPS functions. This gadget is a merge between a GPS and a satellite communicator, I guess it will suit some people but clearly not you or I

[photohiker]

Then why does it have a prominent "SOS" button on the front of the unit?

Obviously that's only one of the functionalities and the buyer does not have to use it. Not a basis for criticism of the device.

I think it is it biggest downfall - i.e. If you are not a PLB, you shouldn't pretend to be one. This *&%$#! costs lives.

I think you are overstating your case. The SOS button alerts a professional emergency response outfit, just not directly via AMSA. It uses a reliable satellite network. In addition to notifying emergency response, the nature of the emergency can be communicated by the user. You cannot do that with a PLB.

Is a PLB a superior emergency beacon? Of course it is.

[wayno]

i'm not a fan of multi functional devices.. if it breaks or you loose it or the batteries run out.... then you've got nothing.... not to mention muti function devices can be jacks of all trades masters of none.
esp when it comes to plb's if your life may depend on it, it beter be good,
i found out how mediocre spots can be for tracking, i'd never trust it for a plb... it struggled at times to connect to the lower orbit satellites. compared to the plb satellites which orbit at a higher angle in teh sky, plus the plb has larger extendable aerials.

[GPSGuided]

I understand that the latest PLB specification under discussion will include 2-way short messaging functionality. As said, it's all merging.

[wayno]

question is, will there be a diference between merged devices, ie, a PLB with the same satellite connectivity quality that currently exists that messages.
or juset devices that message and try to emulate PLB's but with an inferior satellite service..

[photohiker]

Good point, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Where is the evidence that this device uses an inferior satellite service?

[wayno]

i cant comment about delormes reliability
they use iridium satellites, different from locator beacons using cospas-sarsat and spot using globalstar satellites
i'm not happy about the reliability i've seen from a SPOT. and i know the plb satellites have generally better likelihood of connecting in rough terrain due to orbiting at a higher angle in the sky.
dedicated PLB's transmitters are far more powerful than messaging devices as well.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Personal- ... ing-advice

[GPSGuided]

SPOT's problem here in Australia is obviously related to the satellite constellation it uses. These carrier issues are subject to change, pending their latest setup. To me, the key point is being able to send a geoloc out and an explanation message would be most helpful. Time will tell and the weather ahead is clear.

[photohiker]

To be fair, when you assess the message reliability of a spot or an InReach, you are testing a device on the move with a constant moving view of the sky. They have to maintain a connection to both GPS and communications satellites in those conditions.

If the device doesn't get a good GPS lock before you start moving, and you are in marginal terrain, it can struggle. The GPS section first has to download the GPS Ephemeris data and possibly the Almanac before it can start deriving locations.

Wikipedia:

A position fix using any satellite can not be calculated until the receiver has an accurate and complete copy of that satellite's ephemeris data. If the signal from a satellite is lost while its ephemeris data is being acquired, the receiver must discard that data and start again.

I only know this because I have tested it by starting the spot while on the move in hilly terrain, putting it in my trouser pocket and not stopping until I had turned it off after an hour. Go inside and check on findmespot: 1 beacon instead of 6.

Repeat test: Turn on spot and give it time to lock position, attach to upper portion of backpack harness and repeat the exact same walk. Result: no missed beacons.

When you activate a PLB, it is stationary, and if you follow directions it has a clear view of the sky. It is going to get GPS and Comms lock and it does not have to deal with movement. If you do the exact same thing with a Spot or Delorme you will see similar results. Given the power and aerial on the PLB, it should be better, but maybe not as much as you suggest, it's not chalk and cheese, it's Brie and Camembert

[wayno]

i've done all that , start the spot up in the morning and leave it still for quite a while till it indicates its communicated with the satellite before i start off, a forest canopy or a steep sided valley can still completely ruin connectivity... i've had unfailing connectivity in teh open but seldom got connection under forest canopy

[photohiker]

i've done all that , start the spot up in the morning and leave it still for quite a while till it indicates its communicated with the satellite before i start off, a forest canopy or a steep sided valley can still completely ruin connectivity... i've had unfailing connectivity in teh open but seldom got connection under forest canopy

Understand. Pity you're so far away or I'd loan you the InReach to test. Maybe Spot just can't get out of that forest, where was it located on you during the hike?

Try finding a clearing in the forest and sending an OK. (do NZ forests have clearings?) That's the real test. Moving under forest cover and not getting messages out is a failure of the tracking system, but if your spot had a stationary clear view of the sky and you still couldn't get a message out then: fail. Bear in mind that when in SOS mode the Spot sends repeated messages until the battery fails, so the odds are higher that SOS gets out when stationary than when tracking on the move or just a single OK.

[wayno]

the spot was at the top of the top pocket on my pack, made sure it was facing up the correct way and that it maintained the correct position.

[GPSGuided]

Let's compare the coverage of the two satellite systems. It's not even comparable.

Globalstar (SPOT) coverage - 40 satellites. Regional coverage.
http://www.globalstar.com/en/index.php? ... sidenav=85


Iridium (InReach) coverage - 66 low orbit satellites in 11 polar orbits. True global coverage.
http://www.satellitephonereview.com/pub ... _Maps.html


No surprise there's significant performance difference, especially down in NZ. Fault lies in the satellite platform utilised by the respective hand units.

[icefest]

Let's compare the coverage of the two satellite systems. It's not even comparable.

It'd be better is you posted the map of the actual service spot uses - and not the map for voice/duplex.

Here is the map of simplex data coverage of globalstar:
 

[GPSGuided]

Thanks Icefest. Still, there's a major difference in the technical infrastructure. Comparing InReach and SPOT is like apple to orange given these fundamental differences.

[icefest]

Thanks Icefest. Still, there's a major difference in the technical infrastructure. Comparing InReach and SPOT is like apple to orange given these fundamental differences.

Huge variation between the two, I agree.

To add to the comparison, a PLB is to InReach and SPOT as a well-balanced meal is to an apple or orange.

[GPSGuided]

To add to the comparison, a PLB is to InReach and SPOT as a well-balanced meal is to an apple or orange.

I would say, PLB is like a deaf. Can shout but can't hear. InReach/SPOT are like someone well past middle age. Can shout and hear but just have occasional misses.

[markwrich1]

Beware Pivotel folks, bought a second hand unit from EBay in the states and Pivotel want an extra $170 to activate it in Australia

[Zone-5]

i'm not a fan of multi functional devices.. if it breaks or you loose it or the batteries run out.... then you've got nothing.... not to mention muti function devices can be jacks of all trades masters of none.

^^ This.