Kosciuszko National Park Wild Horse Management Plan

[RFG]

Interested in the issue of Wild Horse Management within Kosciuszko National Park?
Do you have a view, opinion or ideas that you can contribute to KNP Wild Horse Plan Review process, or just interested in further information on the issue?

The Wild Horse Management Plan for Kosciusko National Park is currently being reviewed and your input will help shape the next plan.

https://engage.environment.nsw.gov.au/protectsnowies

Here you can join the conversation about the Wild Horse Management Plan Review, access useful resources, share the conversation on social media and find out about the review process and the opportunities to have your say.

[Hallu]

It's one of those issues that are stopped from being solved because of traditions. It's the same in the US. We know horses don't belong in the Australian wilderness, we know they destroy native vegetation and indirectly harm native fauna, and we know we can easily kill them (at least compared to feral cats, dogs or pigs). But because it's a cute animal and because we have that romantic view of the man from the snowies on his horse, and this big emotional attachment, we can't seem to do the right thing, which would be to simply eradicate feral horses. It's not like horses would disappear from Australia, it's just that none would be wild. They have absolutely no predator, so they don't need to move about, and damage the vegetation even more. Let's take an American example : elks and deers in Yellowstone stopped moving around because they had no natural predators any more, after the eradication of the wolf. Hence the vegetation suffered and didn't have time to grow, hence less birds, less food for small mammals. Since the reintroduction of the wolf, elks and deers numbers has stabilized, and they started a nomadic life. The vegetation grew back, and the animals came with it. Since we can't possibly introduce big predators in Australia, we have no other choice but to kill the horses. If the public opinion doesn't want to see them killed, then the least they could do is form a group and raise money for their capture. But doing nothing is simply stupid. The survival of native fauna and flora is more important than a cute feral species, especially Alpine fauna and flora which is known for its fragility.

[icefest]

I'd really like to see the horses gone - for the same reason as I support the eradication of rabbits and rats from Macquarie Island.

[walkon]

This is always a lively discussion and it's amazing watching how animal libs can justify their hypocritical stance. Hopefully apathy won't prevail and someone has the backbone to make the right decision

[sambar358]

There's some interesting reading in most of those documents on that link but clearly the current non-lethal methods of control as outlined in the 2008 Management Plan are totally indadequate given the signficant increases in wild horses across the Kosi Park as shown in their annual aerial counts. Essentially capturing nnd removing a couple of 100 feral horses from the Park by costly and labour-intestive trapping annually is nothing more than window dressing and a feel-good exercise intended to appease those who see lethal methods of control unacceptable.....and this is acknowledged via comments from Parks in several of these documents.

Realistically Parks (and the NSW State Govt) need to get their priorities right.....if they want to protect the Kosi Park from the on-going damage caused by the increasing number of feral horses then they need to adopt methods of control that will acheive this effectively both over the short and longer term. And like-it-or-not this basically means using aerial helicopter culling and probably follow-up ground shooting both of which have been acknowledged as the most cost effective and efficent means of addressing this issue. Certainly this will cause quite a stir (again) and things will get hot and sticky around the halls of parliament house and any decision to do this will not be universally popular. But should the noisy minority once again get their way and force the government to adopt other "control" methods which do nothing but make a few people feel good about "saving the feral horses from the bullet" while in the meantime the Park continues to degrade at and ever-increasing rate as horse numbers build even further. What is needed of course is a State govt with the strength to make the hard & likely unpopular decisions on this for the betterment of the environment in the longer term.....something they have failed miserably to do in the past and I suspect will also do on this occasion and into the future ! Cheers

s358

[Travis22]

I was chatting about this with a ranger who works in the ANP, I couldn't believe they don't just get in there and shoot the *&%$#! things.

After expressing my extreme disgust at the amount of feral animals running rampant in the Snowy river national park, he simply said shooting these horses will never happen.

He mentioned to me that they have actually caught people trying to release wild horses into the ANP (above Licola)....

Travis.

[walkon]

I was chatting about this with a ranger who works in the ANP, I couldn't believe they don't just get in there and shoot the *&%$#! things.

After expressing my extreme disgust at the amount of feral animals running rampant in the Snowy river national park, he simply said shooting these horses will never happen.

He mentioned to me that they have actually caught people trying to release wild horses into the ANP (above Licola)....

Travis.

Yep a first world problem, we will spend 250 times the money and have a team of vets running around implanting contraception or something stupid like that and cut back on education/hospitals.

The people releasing the horses are probably the ones from the adopt a captured horse program.

[sambar358]

Travis....I tend to agree with your Rangers "it will never happen" opinion on this. Shooting brumbies in Parks has been shown in the past to be a very hot political item and several previous culling activities have been shelved because of the fall-out. It really comes down to the basics....if the horses are doing very real and signficant damage then their numbers need to be signficantly reduced, if not then leave them there and do nothing. What is "politically hot or not" shouldn't enter into any decision making process on this.

The romantic view of the scruffy, stunted little alpine brumby is not quite the full picture here either and I have seen plenty of large saddle-type horses or all colors running with the brumbies in the ANP in Vic and also around the head of the Murray on both sides of the border. To me there's certainly no doubt that over the years domestic stock horses have been released in with the brumbies to improve the breed and probably make their progeny more of an economic asset to capture and sell in the future. Anecdotal evidence would suggest that the some of the same people who are working to save the brumbies or have vested interests in maintaining the status-quo are also the ones who are or who have illegally releasing domestic horses into the herds to improve their bloodlines. Interesting times. Cheers

s358

[icefest]

This photo was taken near Lake Cootapatamba hut this winter. The winds on top were blowing at 115km/h and it was 4 deg below zero.

[climberman]

RFG - The Minister's press release is no longer linked off the have your say page.

I hope (new) Minister Stokes works hard on this issue.

For those who missed it: http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resou ... 061601.pdf

16 June 2013
MEDIA RELEASE EXAMINATION OF KOSCIUSZKO HORSE MANAGEMENT
Environment Minister Robyn Parker today announced that the National Parks and Wildlife Service will conduct an examination of horse controls in Kosciuszko National Park.
Ms Parker said the current Kosciuszko National Park horse management plan was drafted in 2008 and had not kept pace with horse breeding rates.
“National parks staff have worked hard to control horses in Kosciuszko and are disappointed to find increasing populations in the park,” Ms Parker said.
“Humane treatment of horses will remain a key component of control measures but national parks staff are concerned at the damage horses are causing to high country waterways and ecosystems.
“The National Parks and Wildlife Service will therefore commence an examination of the Kosciuszko National Park horse management plan.”
The last aerial survey of the Australian Alps which includes Kosciuszko National Park conducted in 2009, estimated the horse population at 7,679, compared to 2,369 in 2003.
“The methodology used in horse surveys across the Alps is internationally recognised best practice; however the next survey will take in a much greater area to increase the level of precision in estimating horse numbers.
“Community and stakeholder consultation will be critical to this review.
“The analysis will also examine control methods in remote locations of the park, where vehicle access is limited.
“Brumbies are a part of Australian settler heritage; however we also need to carefully manage introduced species that threaten our unique high country environment.
“The best and most recent research, collected using the most rigorous methodology, will underpin future policy.”

[walkon]

On the National Park feedback forum re horses in knp, Lots of talk of the horse and the environment becoming one and there's been no destruction to the ecology/environment. They've been here 180 years and its like an insult to your Australian heritage that they be removed.
It's nice to know that Australia only decided to have a heritage from the time white man arrived by boat. Another concern is the use of social media to decide or influence the debate on what should really be a decision based on science. Either the horses are detrimental to the Bush or not, if they are get rid of them.

[stry]

A bit of nostalgia on my part, I suppose, but I have always enjoyed seeing the occasional wild horse in the Snowies.

BUT with the numbers that we now have, a simple start to the problem would be kill 50% and then re-assess. As with any reduction in numbers of anything, the further it goes, the harder and more expensive it gets, so eradication may not be practicable, or not perhaps even desirable.

Unfortunately, as Sambar358 said, the perceived aversion to any sort of lethal approach has the pollies very nervous.

[walkon]

Unfortunately, as Sambar358 said, the perceived aversion to any sort of lethal approach has the pollies very nervous.

I just think that it's about guns really. We are an anti gun society and vision of the animals that have been killed isn't palatable for most of the population. Let's just say that a good head shot brought down a horse, no pain instant death, the photo of the animal isn't pretty but it's the best case scenario.

[icefest]

For me, it's less about the dead animals, if they are shot cleanly I couldn't care less.

I'm more worried about who will be doing the shooting and why they are doing the shooting. Sport shooters have a conflict of interest in trying to eradicate animals.

I do still think that shooting is the best way to do it, though I do not have a problem with trapping and export/private keeping, as long as this is paid for privately and is not replacing eradication.

S358, what's your verdict on the entire conflict of interest of hunters and shooters, especially considering similar things are often said about deer in Australia?

[Ellobuddha]

Dead Horse Gap - literally, on Saturday.

If they do cull i hope they do some decent carcass disposal. Wouldn't want to run into too many of these in the middle of summer

[climberman]

For me, it's less about the dead animals, if they are shot cleanly I couldn't care less.

I'm more worried about who will be doing the shooting and why they are doing the shooting. Sport shooters have a conflict of interest in trying to eradicate animals.

I do still think that shooting is the best way to do it, though I do not have a problem with trapping and export/private keeping, as long as this is paid for privately and is not replacing eradication.

Where shooting is proposed in NSW it's been via pro shooters from helicopters, no via the sporting shooters mechanism (that'd be a wee mix if politics I'd love to see at play though).

I think the NSW trap and remove mechanism (which is basically a monumental fail as a means of population control) involves volunteer labour to a large extent.

[wander]

The horses (and all the other feral animals and plants) have to go.

It is very simple. They have to go.

But very hard to do on the ground.

There is absolutely no reason what so ever for horses or any other feral animal or plant to not be pursued out of Parks.

I do not buy any of the heritage arguments, the are elitist at best and nonsensical when placed in the context of the broader longer range reasons for Parks to exist. It is purely an emotional argument for political purposes to achieve an end that is not in the best interest of any Park.

[sambar358]

Icefest....I would think that any culling of horses in the Kosi Park would be done by trained professional shooters and most likely using a low-flying helicopter as has been done in the past. Horses are fairly vulnerable to aerial culling being a herd animal that prefers open country, they mob-up and tend to run along established trails/tracks making them relatively easy for a competent pilot and shooter to take their toll on. Aerial shooting using a helicopter is widely used for culling feral horses, donkeys,camels and wild pigs in WA the NT and it was certainly highly effective in NZ when their deer numbers exploded in the 60's & 70's. I think that any ground shooting would be limited to areas that are too heavily forested for effective aerial shooting and again it will be done by professional shooters and not recreational hunters. Recreational hunters are highly unlikely to be involved in any feral horse management programs run by Parks.....and in reality I doubt that many hunters would be interested really.

On a cull.....the purpose is to shoot every one of your target animals ( be they deer, pigs, goats, rabits, foxes, cats etc) encountered regardless of age, sex or situation.....that is just the way it is and how it needs to be done. And there-in lies the difference between culling feral animals and recreational hunting. When I hunt sambar deer in the ANP I am there as a Parks Vic approved (albeit it reluctantly approved) recreationalist and my conditions of entry to the Park are not dependant upon me shooting every sambar deer that I encounter. Like the fishermen, family campers, mountain bike riders, horse riders, 4Wd'ers and walkers....I am in the Park legally persuing my outdoor interests and passion which for me happen also to encompass hunting. So I don't have a confict of interest here as the purpose of me being in the ANP is not to shoot every sambar deer that I encounter...instead the essence of my being there is much the same as everyone elses : to walk, explore wild places and enjoy the whole natural experience.....I just happen to carry a rifle and occasionally kill a sambar deer while doing this.

Now if I (or other hunters) were granted access to otherwise closed-to-hunting areas of the ANP for the sole purpose of acting as an agent of Parks Vic to reduce the numbers of sambar deer in that area then that would be another thing entirely and you would revert to the culling philosophy.....any sambar that gives a chance at a shot is taken without hesitation. Because obviously you are there with a single purpose in mind and that is taking any deer encountered and this is quite different to recreational deer hunting which by-and-large is "hunters choice". This basically means that the hunter decides if he/she takes the animal for whatever reason may be relevant to them....eg : if they are after an animal for venison then they may pass on a big old chewy stag, or if they are looking for a trophy set of antlers then other animals encountered are usually left for another time or hunter, if they are too far from their camp or vehicle to recover enough of the animal to justify the kill then the shot will be passed-up by most hunters. So for me and other Victorian deer hunters there is no "conflict of interest" as our access conditions to Vic public land including a fair bit of the ANP is not as deer cullers....we are there as recreationalist like everybody else.....and that distinction needs to be made and understood.

Ellobuddha.....unfortunately aerial culling in forest country does not allow for carcass recovery or removal as the main aim of these programs is to get the most animals for the lowest cost while flying a machine that may be costing the govt $2000 - $3000 per hour to keep in the air. The dangers of low level flying and landing in steep bushed terrain also make it impractical to land nearby to culled animals and lift them out to be disposed of so unless a ground support crew with suitable machinery was able to get to these shot animals the unfortunate facts are that they would be left to the wild dogs and other scavergers that may come across them as a short-term feed bonus. And this is what those opposed to the culling of feral horses have seized-upon.....like your photo above....the grizzly remains of a dead horse or other large animal is not an attractive sight.....and that in the past has been used to good effect to prevent feral horse culling in various Vic and NSW Parks.....and I suspect will continue to do so in the future because it is such a powerful and emotive type of image. Cheers

s358

[Travis22]

Perhaps when the let the cows back everywhere the cattlemen will sort out the horses, after all they will be competing for the same feed

Travis.

[Ellobuddha]

Im for the cull. Just wanted to make the point about the decomposing carcasses laying around. That would get a little "funky" over summer.

[RFG]

Interesting thoughts, views and opinions raised thus far. I would really encourage and appreciate if you could express and share those same thoughts, views and opinions on the https://engage.environment.nsw.gov.au/protectsnowies website not just here. Your privacy is absolutely protected on the NSW Government consultation website. No need to register if your not comfortable with that and you can still contribute and make comment without registering, however registration will give you feedback and notification of updates to the consultation and engagement process . The online engagement will run through until end of November and will have new material lodged regularly to stimulate discussion and input, so check back regularly.
Regards
RFG

[Travis22]

I think the reality is that the majority of the culled feral animals would be away from the average bush users eyes. Natural causes etc must result in ??? Thousands of dead animals every year in the bush and I cannot say I've ever been out there tripping over them left right and centre.

Certainly won't stop the anti's staging their own photos to suit their agenda.

Travis.

[stry]

Good point RFG.

That's something that I did some time ago - as best I could within the restrictions of the questionnaire.

[icefest]

Thanks for the answer s358. I think I'm starting to be more appreciative of what you do.

Sorry about my preconceived ideas.

[Hallu]

Regarding the media release :

"“Brumbies are a part of Australian settler heritage; however we also need to carefully manage introduced species that threaten our unique high country environment."

Correction : TAMED brumbies are part of Aussie settler heritage. The settlers didn't find wild brumbies in the bush, unlike the American settlers who found the ones introduced by the Spanish. Wild brumbies aren't part at all of Aussie heritage, they're just a nuisance. If they double their population every 3 or 4 years as the numbers suggest, they could help exterminate small mammals from the region, which would be particularly sensitive to any change in the vegetation.