Early May Bogong Hike advice

[redisthefastest]

Hi guys,

I plan on trekking up Mount Bogong via the Staircase in early May and was hoping you can validate some of my gear choices and point me in the right direction if necessary.

I'm mainly concerned with not being warm enough during the night. I plan on pitching in the Bivouac Hut clearing.

In your experiences, what would be the worst case scenario weather-wise that I may encounter? i.e. what temperature. I'd like to pack with this in mind and overburden myself rather than freeze.
Can you please let me know if the below gear and clothing is appropriate?

Gear:
Tent: Mountain Laurel Designs DuoMid. I've got a Tyvek sheet I plan on using for the base.
Sleeping Quilt: Hammock Gear Burrow 20F. I've overstuffed this with extra down, which apparently gets me to 15F (-9C).
Reactor Extreme Liner.
Pad - Therm-a-rest Neoair XLite. This has an R rating of 3.2.Will this be suitable on top of the Tyvek or should I opt for something warmer? I'm a side sleeper, so not sure what percentage of heat loss I'll sustain, or whether that is even relevant.
I plan on buying the Osprey EXOS 65 pack.

Clothing:
I have Mountain Designs synthetic bottoms for the ascent (used them last year in April for same trip and was okay), and merino wool 260 bottoms for camp.
Light merino wool long sleeve top for ascent, both mid and heavy zip for camp.
Mountain Designs hooded fleece.
Mountain Designs water resistant inner fleece pants. Should I invest in some down pants for camp in case the fleece lined ones get soaked?
Mountain Designs gortex neo light rain jacket. I also have a heavier Mountain Hardwear gortex softshell. Definitely better quality, but maybe overkill.

I plan on purchasing the following, and any gear recommendations are appreciated!
Hooded down jacket - Looking at Montbell currently.
Gloves. A liner and heavier pair.
Merino balaclava.
I would really love to ditch the boots for trail runners... as mine are are very heavy and don't fit spectacularly, and I probably don't have enough time to break in another pair.
If I were to use La Sportiva Wildcat trail runners with an Injinji toe liner, plus a mid cushion wool do you think this would be okay for the ascent? My ankles are pretty strong and I've been running in Inov8's for awhile now. I am also thinking of purchasing some lightweight gaiters with some ankle support just in case.
For camp I would bring a thick pair of wool mountaineering socks.

Is all of the above appropriate, not enough or overkill?? Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks!
Rohan

[wildlight]

Hi redisthefastest,

Welcome to the forum. An accurate answer to your post depends a lot on whether or not you feel the cold more, or less- than "average"- if "average" even exists in the real world!

However- the one thing which caught my eye immediately, was your choice of mat. If you were to get cold conditions, you might run into problems. The Therm-a-rest Neoair XLite with its rating of R3.2 was the mat of choice of a mate of mine on a walk in Tassie in Autumn, with minimums hovering a few degrees above zero. He absolutely froze- although he had a wonderfully thick, fluffy down bag- he lost oodles of heat to the ground beneath him.

In the obligatory analysis of the walk, which took on a dream-like status (fuelled by fish and chips and Coke) at the Lake St Clair cafe, he mentioned that the cold was felt about an hour into the "lie down" in his tent. Luckily, we were only out for two nights, and it wasn't a week of suffering.

I use one of the lightweight thermarest mats- mine's one which has a higher "R" rating. Without all of the info in front of me I'm only guessing- but it's a NeoAir X-Therm, and the "R" is up around 5.5 or 5.7 somewhere. I have used this mat directly on snow, and been fine. I once tried a Thermarest Z-Rest, and in about 45 minutes had lost so much heat it was ugly. (camping near the car especially to test the mat).

If lashing out for a new mat is not high up on your list- maybe get yourself a piece of closed-cell foam and use it under your tent. It will provide a far more durable layer of protection than your piece of tyvek, and nudge your R rating up a bit too. My standard kit now, is the X-therm with a Z-rest under it for protection. The Z-Rest is on the ground, then the tent, then the X-Therm, then the sleeping bag.

Hopefully this helps.

Another couple of quick points- the sleeping bag liner is a great idea. You may well get snow at Bivouac Hut- from memory it is in the snow line, up around 1400 meters possibly? And May is a funny month for weather. My Mrs uses a sleeping bag liner- and reckons it makes a noticeable, positive difference to her sleeping warmth.

Just my last quick observation- your footwear… I use Merrels some sort of "runner / hiking " product- even in snow- just make sure if you go down this path- that you have warm socks. Snow can really suck your warmth out throughout these types of shoes, way more than through leather boots. To quote from your post:

I would really love to ditch the boots for trail runners... as mine are are very heavy and don't fit spectacularly, and I probably don't have enough time to break in another pair.

…there is nothing worse than a sustained ascent, followed by a sustained descent- in uncomfortable footwear! Been there- done that.

Other people will likely offer their perspective- ultimately you make your own decision. It's important not only that you come out alive… but that you enjoy and hopefully look forward to more winter activities, because this one worked out well.

Cheers
WildLight

[redisthefastest]

Thank you for the detailed response WildLight!
You touched on my major concern, which is the mat. My friend who I'll be trekking with has a prolite which I believe has an R value in the 2's, so we'll both have to review our sleeping system somewhat. I've been looking at the Exped mats so will probably pull the trigger on one of those.
Thanks again for the solid advice, much apprreciated!

[andrewa]

Late April/May is one of those lovely times of year on Bogong where the days are often clear and sunny, and the nights cold. It is likely to get down towards freezing at night. All your gear looks fine. You'll appreciate a down jacket in the evening. Make sure your footware uncomfortable. There's a lot of up and a lot of down using the Staircase Spur!

Whilst it can obviously snow at that time of year, it hasn't on the ~10 occasions I've been there early than the end of May.

Enjoy it. It's a lovely mountain.

Andrew A

[stry]

wildlight's comments on mats reminded me of a similar experience with a similarly rated T'rest inflatable. Going on Memory, the R rating was over 3, but I could feel the cold below, evn with my hip a little above the ground. I had nothing under the mat except the tent floor

Have not had the same problems with a UL Downmat, although because of the reports about Exped fragility, I have always used the Exped with the thinnest available Gossamer Gear closed cell pad. I have also used the GG under a Prolite. The GG gives me at least something if I have a mat failure. Also provides a little extra protection for the mat.

If you use runners, I would definitely use some sort of light weight gaiter. Sticks and dirt in your shoes are an inconvenience, but snow in your shoe, which then melts and partially refreezes, can be dangerous.

[Moondog55]

As the above comments
A really good time of the year on Bogong
The bulky but cost effective option is to use a CCF mat in conjunction with the inflatable, a cheapie from K-Mart may be just enough but a RidgeRest would be my choice. add some extra bread bags if you take the LW runners, it can make a huge difference if you feet start to get wet and cold

[wildlight]

The GG gives me at least something if I have a mat failure.

The above- is an important point- and if push really came to shove, you could fold one of those full length cheapie CF mats to half length, slip it under your torso, and use your pack for the other half (say- thighs down). Every bit helps when it's cold and the main mat has expired. Let's hope it never comes to that!

Cheers

WildLight

[David M]

As the above comments
A really good time of the year on Bogong
The bulky but cost effective option is to use a CCF mat in conjunction with the inflatable, a cheapie from K-Mart may be just enough but a RidgeRest would be my choice. add some extra bread bags if you take the LW runners, it can make a huge difference if you feet start to get wet and cold

Pardon my ignorance but by "bread bags" do you mean the plastic bags bread comes in?

[Lophophaps]

My Theremarest is too cold for snow, so I have a thin closed full length cell foam mat underneath, quite good. This mat is light but bulky and is often the only thing lashed on the outside of the pack, in a nylon bag. Boots are best as if the weather turns nasty you will find that water flows through runners, making the feet cold. With boots you will get wet but the moisture is static. At worst the weather may be such that you cannot walk on the exposed ridges, which will be interesting at Cleve Cole at noon on the Sunday.

[Moondog55]

Pardon my ignorance but by "bread bags" do you mean the plastic bags bread comes in?

Yes the LDPE bags factory plastic bread is packed in are great liners for emergency use, I've even used them as emergency mittens on one occasion [ for some-one else] they don't last all that long but you simply recycle them when the trip ends

[redisthefastest]

Thank you for all the great advice everybody!

I think I'll buy a some GG pads instead of upgrading the therm-a-rest. Hopefully they'll arrive in time for the trip. If it becomes unbearable I can always wuss out and walk down to the car

The bread bags sound like a good idea, never heard of that before!

I was thinking of buying a pair of seal skins to go over my liner sock... but not too sure whether I'll just be replacing getting wet from rain with sweat not escaping from my feet, particularly on the ascent. I may have to revisit the boot idea after all.

On another note, does anybody know whether Bivouac Hut has any water at the moment? I'll be bringing ample regardless, but just thought I'd ask if anybody has been up the Staircase recently?

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate all the input.
I plan on taking my camera and tripod along so I'll be sure to post some pics.

[andrewa]

In winter there's a nice tent site between Castor and Pollux near the top of the Staircase - not sure what it's like without snow, but, if the weather is fine, that would be a nice place to plonk a tent.

Seal skins - I wouldn't bother with them for your trip. I'm also planning a trip up there sometime early May, and will just be walking in low cut walking boots/shoes. I'd probably also be quite happy with a thermarest, or a thermarest plus some 2mm CC foam if worried.

Andrew A

[raider]

Thank you for all the great advice everybody!

I think I'll buy a some GG pads instead of upgrading the therm-a-rest. Hopefully they'll arrive in time for the trip. If it becomes unbearable I can always wuss out and walk down to the car

The bread bags sound like a good idea, never heard of that before!

I was thinking of buying a pair of seal skins to go over my liner sock... but not too sure whether I'll just be replacing getting wet from rain with sweat not escaping from my feet, particularly on the ascent. I may have to revisit the boot idea after all.

On another note, does anybody know whether Bivouac Hut has any water at the moment? I'll be bringing ample regardless, but just thought I'd ask if anybody has been up the Staircase recently?

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate all the input.
I plan on taking my camera and tripod along so I'll be sure to post some pics.

I did my first trip to Bogong via the Staircase on Friday and returned via Eskdale spur. Spoke to a local bloke who said they got 14mm two weeks ago( or may be over Easter ? ) and walking down Eskdale spur I could see that a lot of water had rushed down the track recently. Although I didn't check the tank at Bivouac Hut I would say yes.

[Lophophaps]

I think I'll buy a some GG pads instead of upgrading the therm-a-rest. Hopefully they'll arrive in time for the trip. If it becomes unbearable I can always wuss out and walk down to the car.

I had not heard of Gossamer Gear. At about 80 grams their thin pads sound good. I saw a review that said not to expose them to direct sunlight for too long. If it gets cold just shiver faster. The Pollux-Castor saddle campsite is good in fine weather, but it's exposed if the weather bombs out. A short distance above the saddle is the Summit Hut site, and about 10 metres above the track here is a small soak.

[JamesMc]

I'd assume you won't be camping on snow at Bivouac Hut. If there's snow on the ground, it won't be deep so you could just scrape it away.

Personally, I'd just sleep in the hut which if I recall right is well insulated. It won't be full in May.

James Mc

[redisthefastest]

I'd assume you won't be camping on snow at Bivouac Hut. If there's snow on the ground, it won't be deep so you could just scrape it away.

Personally, I'd just sleep in the hut which if I recall right is well insulated. It won't be full in May.

James Mc

Yeah, the hut will definitely be my backup option, and served as my overnight refuge in April 2013 after all my gear was soaked. I didn't even make it to the summit that trip as I couldn't see a meter in front of myself due to fog.
Hopefully be able to avoid it this time around!

[andrewa]

Yes, sometimes on Boges you just have to bail out, bummer as it is given the amount of effort getting there. There's little percentage in trotting around in the cloud with nothing to see!

A

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi, Yes my first attempt on Mt Bogong in Dec. 2012 was a bail out after getting soaked in heavy rain and deliberating whether to go on past Bivouac hut in a thunder storm. The decision was wisely NO, no way. It is a L O N G way from Melb. for such an aborted trip . I did make it up there to CC hut in good weather via the Staircase spur and back the next day via the Eskdale spur in Jan. 2014.I am looking at going up there in snow in August 2015.

[andrewa]

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Bogong from the first weekend of May