8 Mile flat to Upper howqua,Mt Howitt & Mac Springs in Snow

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Hi
I was wondering if anyone has hiked from 8 mile flat to the Upper Howqua campsite during the snow season and then the next day hiked up the western ridge of Mt. Howitt and spent the night at the Gantner hut at Macalister springs? .
One would of course carry snow shoes and poles for an ascent of Mt Howitt in late August/ Early September, and plan for the worst and hope for the best as they say.
This is one trek that would be wild and adventurous in snow season but a lot could also go wrong too.

[Lophophaps]

The walk up the Howqua would be like summer, just wetter. I've been up and down the West Ridge in winter. It's a bit of a slog, with the potential for deep snow. On one trip over Howitt we were lucky to have a very brief break in the weather so that we could see the way. Major plunges on several sides. In limited visibility finding the top of the West Ridge or the link to Mac Springs may be tricky. Unles you are very confident avoid the Cross Cut in snow - it's quite hard. I've done it twice and have no wish to repeat the experiment. Gantner is a horrible hut, dreadful design, very cold.

[walkon]

quote="Lophophaps"]The walk up the Howqua would be like summer, just wetter. I've been up and down the West Ridge in winter. It's a bit of a slog, with the potential for deep snow. On one trip over Howitt we were lucky to have a very brief break in the weather so that we could see the way. Major plunges on several sides. In limited visibility finding the top of the West Ridge or the link to Mac Springs may be tricky. Unles you are very confident avoid the Cross Cut in snow - it's quite hard. I've done it twice and have no wish to repeat the experiment. Gantner is a horrible hut, dreadful design, very cold.[/quote]

Doing the crosscut under snow this year, what are the pitfalls to worry about or is it just tough going. The spec scramble up has been described as ok in the snow, what's your opinion of the crosscut to spec section and what type of snow conditions were you experiencing at the time

[Lophophaps]

Doing the crosscut under snow this year, what are the pitfalls to worry about or is it just tough going. The spec scramble up has been described as ok in the snow, what's your opinion of the crosscut to spec section and what type of snow conditions were you experiencing at the time

Even with a GPS I reckon that in bad weather finding the start of the Cross Cut from Howitt may be tricky. Drifting snow may make it slow going on snow shoes. For skiers, steep slopes with significant plunge factors could be daunting unless you have XCD skis or heavier XC skis with good side cut. Descending slopes that have scrub will be interesting. If the Spec section becomes icey it could be hairy. There are certainly flat places to camp, and a bench can be made anywhere, but essentially it's an exposed traverse that should not be considered lightly.

It could be quite easy for winter, or yuo may be plouging through deep snow. One year we went from the Bungalow Hut site on Bungalow spur to Federation Hut in a personal best - three hours. Even with skis we were sinking to our knees. Without skis it was waist deep and horribly tiring. Catch that on the Cross Cut and you will be in a place of interest. (We were the only lunatics to reach Fed Hut that weekend. Sanity prevailed for most.)

In fine conditions it can be spectacular. I've been on Howitt in winter a number of times and have not had very good weather.

Spec from Mac Springs

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Cross Cut from Mac Springs

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Cross Cut tele

[walkon]

Lophophaps, I'm drooling at those pics they are soo pretty equipment failure stopped me last year but I have a lot more time available this year to make it happen.

[north-north-west]

One of those things that never got ticked off the bucket list prior to moving back down here - Howitt in winter.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Dude, the pic.s of the cross cut saw under a full cover of snow are fabulous. I walked the upper Howqua and the western Howitt ridge in full summer heat in early Jan. 2015 . It was really steep ! It was a real slog :-0

I know the area well and even in poor visibility one would be heading east across the top of Mt Howitt from the Howitt west summit where the "staircase" trail from the upper Howqua finally hits the treeless summit area .Looking for the trail to Mac. Springs once over the summit of Mt Howitt could be interesting in a full white out .
The idea of going across the Cross cut saw in snow shoes appeals but in reality it is potentially highly hazardous . If it is icy then it could be diabolically dangerous . Being able to automatically self belay or self arrest with an ice axe up there would be an mandatory skill which could save your life. I would even take some ropes and a helmet !
I mean Jesus wept! , look at how steep the slopes are on Mt Howitt and the Cross cut saw in summer , in snow and ice in zero visibility with a strong wind blowing you'd be wise to watch your step. Still I am interested in doing this upper Howqua to Mac Springs hike ( but not the Cross cut saw ) either this snow season or next. I am going up Mt Feathertop and possibly Mt Bogong in snow shoes this July /August. Wish me luck !

[andrewa]

Re Bogong and snow shoes. Snow shoes are useful on the spurs in heavier snow, but be aware that the tops of the Staircase and Eskdale can be very hard and icy, as snow often gets blown off. Snowshoes designs vary in their ability to edge on hard pack.

We normally take crampons when skiing in winter, and use them surprisingly often on the climbs out. We also take snowshoes for climbing out in deep soft snow in mid Winter ( don't bother in spring). So the winter rucksack gets heavy with skis, snowshoes, crampons, ice axe and shovel!

I'd treat the Crosscut much the same, although you would be doing a lot more traversing and edging than on Bogong.

A

[Lophophaps]

I agree with paidal_c and Andrewa. Instep crampons are advised, as it is possible that there will be extensive areas of sheet ice. There's a spelling variation of the second-last word in the last sentence. On steep lopes snow shoes, skis or both may be non-viable. I've found some more pics of one trip from Bluff Saddle, The Bluff, and Howitt to Tamboitha Saddle for the Magdala-Howitt leg. We had nine days of mainly poor snow and mostly cloudy
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Approaching Hells Window from the south.

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Hells Window. We decided against a descent of it.

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Nasty snow below Hells Window.

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Howitt, near the summit. You can just make out the party.

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Better visibility for the run to Mac Springs.

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Closer to the narrow link to Mac Springs. Note the snow ploughs - all we could manage in the crud.

[walkon]

Lophophaps you've been living the dream by the looks of it, the Bluff is the other on my wish list this year. Did you go up that as well? I was thinking that would be better after it has iced up a bit.
My crampons are great and come with me heaps. Ice axe always does, its a bit like a swiss army knife in the amount of ways you can use it.
I spoke with a guy who skated off an icy crosscut on skis, got knocked around a fair bit from the sounds of it. First thing he advised was for crampons. Whilst another bloke hasn't been able to cross due to too much powder snow, waist/chest deep both times. I guess like anything luck does play a big part in conditions on the ground at the time you are able to go.

[Lophophaps]

The Bluff to Tamboritha Saddle trip started at Bluff Saddle or Refrigerator Gap, whatever it is called these days. We drove to near this place, then went south and straight up, sort of. The snow was rubbish and even with skis across the slope we slipped down ten metres or more many times. The north face of The Bluff has a lovely track in summer that is too steep to hold snow and people satisfactorily, and this is partially the problem with the Cross Cut.

Ice is another problem. On a trip many years ago we had a pleasant night at Albina Lodge (yes, that long ago) and headed towards Twynum. From the hut we should have back-tracked to the saddle south of the hut, east of Muellers Peak, but we very foolishly went NE to Northcote Pass. Even with metal edges it was an exceptionally terrifying and slow journey, probably the scariest thing I have done on skis except intentionally skiing through a cornice. The latter led to what I was advised is called a major splat. It took an hour to reach Northcote Pass, and 20 minutes to change the underwear. We made Tin Hut late in the day, about 7 pm I recall, sunset on Gungartan. A patchy snow cover did not assist.

In some places instep crampons are essential, an ice axe is good, and maybe 20 metres of 9 mm rope. Skiing into Blue Lake for ice climbing at Watsons we had huge loads - winter and climbing gear - maybe 30 kilograms. At least it was not far, and downhill coming back. Been there, done that, tick.

A few posts up I advised about three hours in winter from the Bungalow Hut site to Federation Hut. For those that do not know the area it's about two kilometres and 200 metres of ascent. My map is too folded here to be more specific. In summer it might take about 40 minutes going up.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Yes, in heavy snow, ice and poor visibility it is V E R Y slow going all round and you need to plan to triple the time for the ETA for any stage on an overnight/multi night snow season trek. I am buying in step crampons and an ice axe for this winter. Has anyone looked at the black diamond Whippet self arrest ski pole ? I think it could be useful but not as handy or useful as an ice axe.

[andrewa]

Yes, I use whippets for XCD. I reckon that if you're walking an ice axe would be more useful - you an at least stick the point of the shaft in the snow, which youcantdo witha whippet on aski stock. Also, re self arresting - I think that if you haven't stopped yourself before you pick up any speed, you are probably unlikely to, so it's probs best to avoid the need.

There are some extremely good aluminium 10/12 point crampons around for these sorts of trips. Very light, reasonably flexible, and whilst they'd wear out pretty quickly on mixed ground, that's not what they'd be used for.

A

[Lophophaps]

Yes, I use whippets for XCD. I reckon that if you're walking an ice axe would be more useful - you an at least stick the point of the shaft in the snow, which youcantdo witha whippet on aski stock. Also, re self arresting - I think that if you haven't stopped yourself before you pick up any speed, you are probably unlikely to, so it's probs best to avoid the need.

There are some extremely good aluminium 10/12 point crampons around for these sorts of trips. Very light, reasonably flexible, and whilst they'd wear out pretty quickly on mixed ground, that's not what they'd be used for.

Agree. If the ice is that bad you should be using an ice axe for security. Also, I don't like the idea of a sharp blade potentially cutting holes in me, my clothing or my pack. An ice axe is stronger and is less likely to break. If an ice axe was available for my Albina experiment I would have been using this above me as with the shaft firmly planted in the ice. I may even have cut steps. In many years of skiing Albina was one of only a handful of times that I was on scary steep ice.

See a Whippet at http://eu.blackdiamondequipment.com/en/ ... 0ALL1.html

[Mark_O]

In regards to traversing the Crosscut Saw in a decent winter I would say that it is significantly more serious than accessing either Feathertop or Bogong. Certainly crampons and an ice axe would be my recommendation. As AndrewA mentioned there is a lot more traversing than on either Feathertop or Bogong and the ridges are narrower in spots. Snow conditions are also often less consistent and there are a considerable number of rocks making the skiing and snowshoeing that little bit (& in some conditions, much) trickier. For additional info see: https://vimeo.com/72133923