2.5 or 3 layer rain jackets?

[onward]

Hi
I am currently trying to reduce my pack weight (for hopefully the AAWT in 2016) and one of several areas I am targeting is my wet weather gear, and after visiting few few stores and lots of Internet research I am confused! Currently for multi day hikes I use a MD Stratus jacket (3L Gore-Tex) and trust it, but it weighs 800grams.
- I am looking for a replacement and the big question is do I go for a lighter weight 2.5L jacketl or stick with the 3-layer?
- Is it better to use a lighter 2.5L jacket and replace more often or is it just a waste of time to use a 2.5L jacket on multi day walks?
- Does a pack harness wear through the light shells more soon than the 3l variants?
- Equally the Status is knee length and most of the newer/lighter jackets are shorter, how much of a real issue is that, I am guessing wearing waterproof pants more often!

Thanks

[weeds]

I'm still trying to work out this whole 2 or 2.5 or 3 layer jackets.......waiting on replies to this thread

[Maelgwn]

I have not been shopping for jackets recently but certainly 5 years ago to common wisdom was that 2.5L jackets are not suited for pack carrying.

Hi
I am currently trying to reduce my pack weight (for hopefully the AAWT in 2016) and one of several areas I am targeting is my wet weather gear, and after visiting few few stores and lots of Internet research I am confused! Currently for multi day hikes I use a MD Stratus jacket (3L Gore-Tex) and trust it, but it weighs 800grams.
- I am looking for a replacement and the big question is do I go for a lighter weight 2.5L jacketl or stick with the 3-layer?

I would stick with 3 layer and don't know anyone who would recommend otherwise.

- Is it better to use a lighter 2.5L jacket and replace more often or is it just a waste of time to use a 2.5L jacket on multi day walks?

3layer jackets can be quite light as well, obviously still with a compromise in durability. Essentially the weight of the jacket is in the outer fabric and the number of pockets gadgets etc.

- Does a pack harness wear through the light shells more soon than the 3l variants?

yes - they wear through on the back wear the packs lumber support is and quite quickly too.

- Equally the Status is knee length and most of the newer/lighter jackets are shorter, how much of a real issue is that, I am guessing wearing waterproof pants more often!

Yep - knee length jacket with shorts are out of favour now. There are longer jackets still available (e.g. macpac). To me it depends on what the conditions are like. For alpine conditions - jacket and overpants are my choice for extra protection. If I was walking more in warmer but drizzly conditions, long jacket would be a better choice (e.g. most mainland winter use).

[wayno]

some jackets vary, you can get ones that mix 3 layer heavier fabric on the shoulders sometimes the hips to and the rest lighter face fabric and 2.5 layer in lower wear areas, can be around 400 grams, or all three layer around the same weight even lighter, but light face fabric all round.. Outdoor research is one brand that mixes up the fabric types a bit. there are others as well. i dot know whats in aus shops that much, i'm in NZ. i bought most of my stuff overseas some brands not available down under that widely or at all so what i use isnt that relevant. read the specifications or have a thorough look at the jacket when you're in the shop to spot the hybrid designs. ask the staff but be aware not all staff know their stuff, unless you're in a known reputable shop.

[RonK]

I ditched my heavy Macpac for a Marmot Precip years ago.
The Precip is not particularly breathable, but it's only half the weight of the Macpac.
Considering that over the years my shell has always been carried but seldom worn, it was a rational choice.

[wayno]

I ditched my heavy Macpac for a Marmot Precip years ago.
The Precip is not particularly breathable, but it's only half the weight of the Macpac.
Considering that over the years my shell has always been carried but seldom worn, it was a rational choice.

marmot have improved their membrane and laminate breathability a lot recently, replaced all the old ones..

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

I have a Northface Hyvent 2.5L.

Have never had any problems carrying my pack with it.

The pack has not damaged the fabric or water protection abilities of the jacket.

I don't understand why you'd have to have a 3L jacket to carry a pack.

I also agree with previous comments about weight. The weight penalty of carrying a heavy, 3L goretex is not worth it, given it spends the majority of its life in your pack.

[wayno]

if you bush wack some places, you'll think anything short of a suit of armour is too lightweight. depends on your pack weight and how often you're using the garment as well and depends whawt the mmebrane or laminate is made from

[north-north-west]

The weight penalty of carrying a heavy, 3L goretex is not worth it, given it spends the majority of its life in your pack.

Not in Tasmania, it doesn't!

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

Maybe in winter, fair enough.

[wayno]

no i think the scrub is just as big a prick twelve months of the year...

[north-north-west]

no i think the scrub is just as big a prick twelve months of the year...

Oh yes! And when the stuff is wet nothing keeps you really dry.
Wrecks the jacket, but a thicker, heavier jacket lasts longer. Worth the extra weight.

[roysta]

[quote=when the stuff is wet nothing keeps you really dry.
Wrecks the jacket, but a thicker, heavier jacket lasts longer. Worth the extra weight.[/quote]

Absolutely correct

[walkon]

It's notable that a Queenslander and a South Aust bloke are saying go light whereas a kiwi and taswegian are saying go stronger. On the aawt you walk on a lot of high exposed country and if you are going it alone whats a few grams especially for safety.

Ron I know you've been in big country

[RonK]

Ron I know you've been in big country

Big country delivers harsh lessons.

[andrewa]

weight is more important to me than durability, so I've had goretex packlite stuff for the last 6-7 yrs, with no problems. A jacket weighs about 300g. Last year I bought a breathable cuben fibre jkt, which is about 170g. It has been great for my bushwalking/flyfishing/skiing, and I have had no issues with rucksack wear on the shoulders.

HOWEVER, I do NOT go scrub bashing in Tassie.

A

[walkon]

Ron I know you've been in big country

Big country delivers harsh lessons.

It does, I've had a shell wrecked by wind so I don't mind the extra weight with a stronger jacket.

I like the longer shell as I don't wear my overpants till I have to and they are warmer by covering your hips/bum. In the early days a longer jacket was to keep your jocks dry so you didn't have wet ones all day. Now with the quick drying ones that thought process is obsolete. Though I do wonder how protected some people are when you see them in a short shell top and low hip overpants.

Onward what is your pack weight at the moment roughly

[RonK]

Ron I know you've been in big country

Big country delivers harsh lessons.

It does, I've had a shell wrecked by wind so I don't mind the extra weight with a stronger jacket.

I like the longer shell as I don't wear my overpants till I have to and they are warmer by covering your hips/bum. In the early days a longer jacket was to keep your jocks dry so you didn't have wet ones all day. Now with the quick drying ones that thought process is obsolete. Though I do wonder how protected some people are when you see them in a short shell top and low hip overpants.

Onward what is your pack weight at the moment roughly

I haven't done a full weigh up in ages. It's not really necessary since I no longer allow idea "what's a few extra grams" to enter my thinking. It's this sloppy kind of approach that leads to threads wondering why pack weights are so high.

There is an old adage - "Mind your pennies and your pounds will mind themselves." This I find applies equally well to the weight of my gear. It doesn't mean going to ridiculous extremes, it simply means taking a disciplined approach. At over 3000 metres on the Dhaulagiri Circuit, with more than 20kgs in my pack, I had a very bad day and realised how foolish it was to be carrying excess weight, to the point where I was about to start jettisoning some of it. After that I put light weight before durability for all my gear starting with boots, pack, sleeping bag and shell. Shell because, as I've previously posted, is always carried but rarely used.

Alas, the realisation came too late to save my knees.

Oh, and I think my pack weight is now about 15kgs for a through walk.

[wayno]

you need to look at where and how its going to be used.
my comments were specific, I said if you're bushbashing anything short of a suit of armour will seem to light... because one person claimed going light was the best way to go,
there is no one rule for what you should get. you get what you're comfortable with given the conditions you will face,
if you're high above the bushline in severe storms very much you are more likely to want heavy weight fabric at least in the hood that has a stiff brim that isnt easily deformed by high wind, i've seen light jackets in those conditions, my mates one was making a hell of a racket flapping in the wind, woudnt have surprised me if it was going to shred.
if you're scraping against rocks a lot you'll want something heavier or at least reinforced in the high wear areas.
if you're going long miles day after day then light weight will become a bigger factor in your decision , especially if you're not wearing the jacket that much, some places you put your jacket on at the start of the trip and it only comes off when you enter your shelter and the elements will hammer it and you might feel better in something more substantal and with extra features like etter hood, more and bigger pockets, vents.. heavier zip. other trips it might seldom leave your pack for the odd shower, so having a light jacket can be a better option..
rainshells now vary from 100gm in weight up to around 800gm, they can be completley different beasts that have their advantages and disadvantages. i've got shells that range from 180gm to 700gm and they all get used, but each one will only be used in certain trips within a specific range of conditions
i dont hace much time these days to expand tht much on my comment and always explain everything,
but what works perfectly for you, could be someoe elses nightmate in different conditions
in NZ we see foreigners all the time with gear that doesnt stand up to the elements. tent poles and material that breaks and shreds in the wind , people too cold when they get wet, shells that do a poor job of keeping people from becoming drowned rats...