Fire Bombing

[Tortoise]

Ahhhh, it's gone to air has it. Please tell me I don't look too indescribably old and ugly on screen.

I forgot to respond to this bit. Nope, you don't look too indescribably old and ugly on screen! You're wearing an expression that suggests that you've been through a harrowing experience - entirely appropriate, IMO.

[corvus]

G'day Lee,
Glad you had a safe outcome and hope that a positive will eventuate from your experience.
corvus

[GPSGuided]

Glad to note that NNW's hair didn't get singed. May need some conditioning from the heat but nothing more.

[stepbystep]

There are a number of issues at play here.

Firstly, protocols.
Mt Edith is the only regularly walked route in the Norfolk Range(other than perhaps Mt Hazleton) there were no signs on the road, the planned burns said nothing about Mt Edith. If PWS had changed their plans surely protocol would dictate a check of the access routes to the area. A car parked on the Western Explorer at the logical start of the walk should be a red flag to any operation. Is there a spotter in the chopper or just a pilot?

Secondly, burning method.
I walked this area extensively just one month ago. I agree fire needs to be used to control the re-wilding of the plains(Melaleuca and tea tree scrub are invading) using helicopters is both poor land management and lazy land management. I've now viewed the after photos. Entire creek systems firebombed, the headwaters of the Toner River torched. No thought for fauna(including humans) or ecosystem health. This country requires cold fire burning, done by firestick to control what is burned and to allow fauna to relocate ahead of the fire.

These two issues are the tip of the iceberg. PWS should use this incident to lobby for funding and education to do the burning of country correctly. It was done in a very particular way for thousands of years, you can't just change it up and not expect ramifications.

[Lophophaps]

There are a number of issues at play here.

+1000

[Zone-5]

Whoa! With images of Turia Pitt still fresh in everyones minds I feel so much for your fright to be caught in such a harrowing situation!

Great to hear you are safe and well.

best wishes... Roby

[north-north-west]

PWS should use this incident to lobby for funding and education to do the burning of country correctly. It was done in a very particular way for thousands of years, you can't just change it up and not expect ramifications.

Yes. Makes me wonder if I should have contacted the relevant Minister and even the Premier.
As expensive as a chopper flight is, it's still cheaper and logistically easier than the sort of ground crew necessary to do this the proper way.

[DarrenM]

Glad you made it home safe NNW. Not the sort of thing I've ever thought about when heading off, so thumbs up for cool thinking. Pretty sure Parks will be doing all they can to prevent similar events in future thanks to your experience.

[earthgrace]

Sorry to hear of the incident, and glad to hear you are safe! Sounds very scary. Good one keeping your cool and being heard afterwards.

[Tortoise]

PWS should use this incident to lobby for funding and education to do the burning of country correctly. It was done in a very particular way for thousands of years, you can't just change it up and not expect ramifications.

Yes. Makes me wonder if I should have contacted the relevant Minister and even the Premier.
As expensive as a chopper flight is, it's still cheaper and logistically easier than the sort of ground crew necessary to do this the proper way.

I reckon contacting them both would still be a good move. It's nice to think it could increase the chances of something actually being done to bring urgent change/accountability.

[north-north-west]

Firstly, protocols.
Mt Edith is the only regularly walked route in the Norfolk Range(other than perhaps Mt Hazleton) there were no signs on the road, the planned burns said nothing about Mt Edith. If PWS had changed their plans surely protocol would dictate a check of the access routes to the area. A car parked on the Western Explorer at the logical start of the walk should be a red flag to any operation.

Bloke I'm talking to at TasPAWS said they weren't aware of a known walking route in the area. Even asked how I'd heard about the walk. They don't seem to have grasped the concept of off-track exploration.

Which isn't a surprise. The conversation when I tried phoning them (through the Relay Service) was . . . well, let's say informative. The lass who answered the phone wasn't sure how to answer my request to speak to someone senior about the burnoffs. Started into a spiel about how they are doing this special program of burning all around the state. I said I was well aware of that because I'd been caught in the middle of one of them . . . from there it was a frantic attempt to find me someone to talk to, but everyone was busy, so I ended up with an email address. But when she's trying to narrow down who would be the best person for me, she asked where it was. "Norfolk Range". "Ahhh, that's near New Norfolk, is it?" I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Bureaucracy. In my day even the office lizards had a basic understanding of what the Service was about. And, mostly, sympathy with its aims and for the field staff's difficulties.

[Lophophaps]

I said I was well aware of that because I'd been caught in the middle of one of them . . . from there it was a frantic attempt to find me someone to talk to, but everyone was busy, so I ended up with an email address. But when she's trying to narrow down who would be the best person for me, she asked where it was. "Norfolk Range". "Ahhh, that's near New Norfolk, is it?" I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

Bureaucracy. In my day even the office lizards had a basic understanding of what the Service was about. And, mostly, sympathy with its aims and for the field staff's difficulties.

Off-track walking should be well understood by PWS, although perhaps less so by those who always work at a desk, and some of those who work outdoors. It's nearly always the case that entities take no action until there is a disaster. For nine months I complained about a dangerous road surface, no action. Then when a friend had a collision (not an accident) due to the road surface and sustained injuries the council fixed the problem in two days. Advice that I was going to commence legal proceedings if they did not fix the problem probably motivated them a little.

Norfolk Range, is that not on Norfolk Island? What are PWS doing there?

I would hope that all clients would be treated with courtesy and respect. That it is not so for many entities saddens me.

[icefest]

Isn't Norfolk a county in the UK, what were pws burning there?

(Just Joking)

Thanks for keeping us updated nnw.

[geoskid]

Hey NNW, (I want to tell this story whether anyone wants to hear it or not)
When this first came on the news on TV, I was talking to someone else (in my house) and caught the gist of what was being said. I moved towards the TV and told people to shoosh, I'm listening. I had an Inkling then that it was you (without ever having seen you before) I was listening to but wasn't sure.
Then a few days later came on here and saw Striders post - and your lovely face.

I want to echo everyone else's thoughts, of course, but want make a point of mentioning PTSD.
Don't shoot me straight away - I've been there without knowing, just want to bring it up.
I read your story, and you mention being the most scared you have ever been. You're a tough ol' bird (and a legend in my eyes), but please share if you need to.

Take Care.

[north-north-west]

Gee, I'm famous. And who else would be dumb enough to get caught in something like that?
Thanks for the concern. I already have PTSD. Already had it, I mean. Made a point of having a walk the next day just to relax myself, although I did make sure I was down off that ridgeline and back at the car before 1pm just in case they decided to have another go at exterminating me. Not that I'm taking it personally, oh golly gosh, no . . .

[walkon]

Glad that your safe and well NNW, I would have missed your pearls of wisdom!

The trouble is that these sort of things aren't just limited to Tasi. Second day into the AAWT from Tharwa, despite being told that no burns weren't being conducted in the area until after Easter, the conditions were too favourable not to burn off apparently (weeks early). Certainly nothing to the degree of NNW's but it gets you wondering. School groups that I met the next 2 days were very concerned as they knew nothing about them. Luckily I had spoken to the blokes so knew what was happening though that was after it had started and by happenstance. Parks Vic cover their bums by putting notices with like a 5 month window warning you, by the time they do the burns the signs are illegible. Though at times you can walk through kilometres of burnt area before you get to a sign telling you that the walking track is closed due to burnoffs

Ps NNW maybe next time you should put a bullseye target on the back of that aarn pack of yours. Make it into a Mario Brothers type of game for the fly boys.

[Lophophaps]

Parks Vic cover their bums by putting notices with like a 5 month window warning you, by the time they do the burns the signs are illegible. Though at times you can walk through kilometres of burnt area before you get to a sign telling you that the walking track is closed due to burnoffs

The PV actions do not meet the "reasonable person" test. A sign that is general in nature, cannot be easily or at all read, and is too far away is ill-advised and wrong at law. Remedies exist. Burns are planned, and hence should be listed on the PV or agency website. The key point that I can see is that the agency should state that all burns will be listed on the website N days ahead. so that you can look at the website on N-1 days and know for sure that a burn will not proceed.

For example, suppose PV says that there will be ten day's notice of burns. You look at the PV website on the Monday and nothing is listed for your area for the next weekend, so the trip can proceed without fear of being bombed or crisped.

[weighty walker]

So glad you are ok. Even though you were scared (and who wouldn't be) you stayed calm and focused and got yourself out safe. You're a *&%$#! hero. Well done NNW

[Suz]

The conversation when I tried phoning them (through the Relay Service)

Are you deaf NNW?

[north-north-west]

Are you deaf NNW?

Yep. Does make life interesting sometimes. And also a lot quieter . . .

[Suz]

ha ha - i bet it does for both. *&%$#! isolating i should imagine.

i myself am half deaf, which presents its own mild variety of annoyances, but all very minor in comparison.

[north-north-west]

*&%$#! isolating i should imagine.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Suz]

HA HA! Ah well I love my alone time too but I like being to communicate easily with people when I need to.

[Moondog55]

Not to make light of the situation NNW but some girls have all the fun.

[Overlandman]

From ABC

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-10/p ... rn/6533250

The Parks and Wildlife Service (PWS) has admitted staff were unaware of a walker or walking tracks when they lit fuel reduction fires in the state's north-west in May.

PWS is considering recommendations for future burns procedures after a terrified bushwalker was caught within metres of smoke and flames.

Lee Evans, an experienced bushwalker, was caught in fuel reduction burns at Mount Edith in early May this year, when a helicopter began firebombing the area.

Her car was parked at the beginning of the walk.

PWS operations director Mark Bryce said in this case parks staff were not aware of any routes or tracks in the area, and that was why no signage was erected.

PWS has now investigated the incident and reviewed its fuel reduction burn procedures.

Service recommendations to minimise the risk of bushwalkers being caught near a planned burn include helicopter checking of nearby roads for parked cars.

Fuel reduction burns would then be postponed if there was a reasonable chance people may be in the burn area.
Fire safeguards under consideration

Helicopter surveillance procedure requiring the checking of nearby roads for parked cars
Police check for personal location beacons operating in the area
Text messages to residents in the area
Fire information to media and stakeholders 24 hours before ignition
Updating bushwalker safety publications
Track postings up to two weeks before a burn

Ms Evans said it appeared some good would come out of her frightening experience.

"I was unlucky to get caught like that, but the only major blunders Parks made were ignoring the car and not doing a proper aerial survey ... both of which are issues they've addressed," she said.

"And they're doing the right thing trying to educate the public about the burn-offs and how to behave around fires."

Mr Bryce said there had always been a risk of this type of incident, and with the planned increase in the number of burns this risk would have increased.

But he said he was hopeful improvements to PWS procedures would significantly reduce the risk.

Mr Bryce said the incident was a serious and regrettable one, but the first of its kind in more than 20 years of low-intensity burns.

PWS general manager Peter Mooney said the investigation found that standard procedures were followed, but that other procedures could be implemented in the future to maximise visitor safety, particularly for burns in remote areas.

[Strider]

Good outcome. But worrying that PWS seem to think PLBs are traceable when in an unactivated state.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[tastrax]

Good outcome. But worrying that PWS seem to think PLBs are traceable when in an unactivated state.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I reckon this is simply a details check of the hire beacons that Service Tasmania has available. Folks are asked the general vicinity in which the beacon will be used. Often the details are not very specific (depending on the client)

[DanShell]

Good outcome. But worrying that PWS seem to think PLBs are traceable when in an unactivated state.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Perhaps its a check to make sure there are no rescues about to commence in the area? It is an odd one.

PLB's are totally inactive when not in use surely?

[whynotwalk]

Good outcome. But worrying that PWS seem to think PLBs are traceable when in an unactivated state.

It looks to me like they're talking about any activated PLBs.

Police check for personal location beacons operating in the area

By that I understand them to mean Police will be able to get direct indication of someone who has activated a PLB in such an emergency. Of course that wouldn't have helped Lee in her particular situation. But it is one of a number of safety checks which, if taken together, will minimise risk of this happening again,

cheers

Peter

[icefest]

Do the helicopters always monitor the 121mhz distress frequency?

Then one could just set it off if they start burning near you.