Training for high altitude trekking

[heracles26]

Hi all,

I will be visiting Nepal for the first time in October.

I am planning on doing the 3 high passes trek, first trekking from jiri to Lukla.

I have read that the trek is quite difficult and so am a bit concerned regarding fitness levels.

I am 26 years old, go to the gym 3x a week and run 6km 3x a week as well as hiking for 2-3 hours once a week.

Please share your views regarding training

Cheers

[weetbix456]

Nothing beats plenty of walking with a heavy pack, and lot's of time acclimatizing once you arrive. Hang out in a high elevation city and do some shorter day walks/easier longer trips to adjust and see how the body goes. Unfortunately there is no easy way to tell pre-experience how you'll hold up in the heavy heights.

[Moondog55]

Might be an idea to spend some time at one or other of the ski resorts too, it's only 1500 meters but it helps

[hobbitle]

That is a huge trek, will you be hiring a porter? Guide?
If not then you do need to train with a pack but if you are staying in tea houses you should not need to carry more than about 10kg.
When I did Base Camp I only had very mild altitude sickness compared to most people but even then I was too tired to carry a day pack above 5000m (you will be getting to about 5500m). I was flat out putting one foot in front of the other!
Abiding by the rules of acclimatisation are very important, don't ascend more than 300-400m (net) in a single day, and have an allicmatization day every 1000m of elevation gain. On your acclimatisation days, walk to the highest elevation possible then back down to sleep (climb high, sleep low is the phrase).
There is no physical training you can do to reduce your chances of altitude sickness, you won't know how it affects you until you are there. You can try taking Diamox which helps some people in terms of Altitude Sickness, and has no affect on others, but you need to be prepared to drink 5L water per day at least and pee a lot haha.


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[heracles26]

Yes I'll be hiring a guide and a porter and doing a combination of tea houses and camping.

Thanks for all the replies so far!!

[horsecat]

I think you'll be just fine. The High Passes trek isn't difficult and by starting at Jiri you are actually helping the acclimatisation process rather than beginning at Luka. This trip is also good for acclimatisation as it goes high, then low, then high, etc. The elevation gain towards the first high pass, the Kongma La, is gradual and you will spend at least two nights at Namche to get used to the 3,000m+ atmosphere. Drink heaps (water and tea), and then more (until your pee is gin clear). If you don't remain hydrated you will get an oedema. But if you remain hydrated, nourished and healthy you should be fine. After you have completed the first high pass you'll have loads more red blood cells to carry the oxygen through the system and you should find that the trek to EBC (if you are popping in for a look), the Cho La and the Renjo La are easy and enjoyable. Once your body is used to the height things get much easier (I once ran from near Island Peak Base Camp down to Namche in seven hours which normally takes four or five days on the way up). But this high altitude thing can bring people unstuck who want to show off and try to be the quickest etc - it is better to be the last into camp each day (within reason), for instance marathon runners tend to pop at altitude and can suffer from potential life threatening issues. So if you try to stroll along on the way up, have lots of stops to take photos and drink you'll be fine plus you've probably seen that the days aren't very long on this trek so there is no need to rush anyway. Normally you'll get into the village in the early arvo, have some lunch, then do a slow acclimatising walk up a nearby hill. It's all very relaxing really. Also don't train too hard in the weeks leading up to the trip, and make sure you have a bit of fat on you before you go to altitude (I've lost up to 20kg on some of these trips). Hill walking is probably the best training. If you need any further info PM me. Good luck and enjoy.

Might be an idea to spend some time at one or other of the ski resorts too, it's only 1500 meters but it helps

No need. It won't assist in any way. Plus Kathmandu is about that height anyway.

[beean]

The best thing for improving your chances altitude is having good cardio.

I would suggest changing your 6km runs to an 1-1.5hrs an easy pace, with your heart rate just above resting. It's more about duration than distance. Same with your weekend hike, if you could stretch that out to longer and hopefully include weight and elevation that would be beneficial.

Hobbitle has some very good advice there.

[GPSGuided]

If you don't remain hydrated you will get an oedema. But if you remain hydrated, nourished and healthy you should be fine.

This seemed to be contrary to normal clinical scenario. Are you saying that the risk of pulmonary oedema is increased if one is under-hydrated? I am sure there are many factors involved but just to clarify.

[heracles26]

Thanks again everyone.

Here is the itinerary I have been given if anyone is interested:

Everest three passes trekking program.
Day 01: Kathmandu to Jiri (1995m) by Bus.
Day 02: Jiri to Deurali (2705m) 6 – 6 hrs.
Day 03: Deurali to Kenja (1570m) 3 – 4 hrs.
Day 04: Kenja to Junbesi (2680m) via Lamjura La Pass (3530m) 7 – 8 hrs.
Day 05: Junbesi to Nhuntala ( 2250m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 06: Nhuntala to Kharekhola (2070m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 07: Kharekhola to Puiyan (2800m) 5 - 6 hrs.
Day 08: Puiyan to Phakding (2610m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 09: Phakding to Namche Bazaar (3440m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 10: Namche Bazaar rest day (Acclimatization).
Day 11: Namche Bazaar to Tengbuche (3860m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 12: Tengbuche to Dingbuche (4410m) 5 – 6 hrs.
Day 13: Dingbuche acclimatization day
Day 14: Chhukhung (4730m) 3 – 4 hrs. hike to Chhukhung Ri (5559m).
Day 15: Chhukhung to Lobuche (4910m) via Kongma La Pass (5535m) 6 – 8 hrs.
Day 16: Lobuche to Gorakshep (5160m) and Everest Base Camp (5364m) 7 – 9 hrs.
Day 17: Gorakshep to Dzonglha (4830m) via Kala Patthar (5540m) 6 – 8 hrs.
Day 18: Dzonglha to Thangnak (4700m) via Cho La Pass (5330m) 6 – 8 hrs.
Day 19: Thangnak to Gokyo (4790m) 4 – 6 hrs.
Day 20: Gokyo rest day. Optional climb to Gokyo Ri (5350m).
Day 21: Gokyo to Langden (4360m) via Renjo La Pass (5360m) 6 – 8 hrs.
Day 22: Langden to Thame (3820m) 4 – 5 hrs.
Day 23: Thame to Namche Bazaar 4 – 5 hrs.
Day 24: Namche Bazaar to Lukla (2900m) 6 – 7 hrs.
Day 25: Lukla to Kathmandu by airplane.

[horsecat]

If you don't remain hydrated you will get an oedema. But if you remain hydrated, nourished and healthy you should be fine.

This seemed to be contrary to normal clinical scenario. Are you saying that the risk of pulmonary oedema is increased if one is under-hydrated? I am sure there are many factors involved but just to clarify.

Yes

[GPSGuided]

Yes

Thanks!

Ok, on further reading, the understanding here is that the stresses of dehydration/altitude would induce local pulmonary vascular changes which leads to pulmonary oedema, not the same scenario as sea level medicine where one would restrict fluid to avoid overloading the heart which causes 'back pressure' oedema. I note that this does not mean over-hydration is beneficial at altitude. Just aiming for normal hydration.

[hobbitle]

If it were me I would do the circuit in the reverse direction even though getting good stops for acclimatisation is a little harder for the first few days after Namche Bazaar.

I was originally going to do it in the same direction as you but once I got to base camp it all felt a bit too much (base camp felt kind of "final") and I decided I just wanted to get back. I wished I had gone to Gokyo first and made my way to EBC slower, then taken the faster route down. But hey that's just me. I had underestimated a bit how kind of... epic... it all was, dealing with the altitude, and even 14 days was a long time for me then when you can't really shower (I took one shower and it wasn't fun - cold!).


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[horsecat]

Yes

Thanks!

Ok, on further reading, the understanding here is that the stresses of dehydration/altitude would induce local pulmonary vascular changes which leads to pulmonary oedema, not the same scenario as sea level medicine where one would restrict fluid to avoid overloading the heart which causes 'back pressure' oedema. I note that this does not mean over-hydration is beneficial at altitude. Just aiming for normal hydration.

Yep, sounds about right. I know it sounds kind of odd that a lack of fluid can cause a build up fluid in the brain and / or in the lungs, but that's altitude. Hydration is probably one of the most important things to be aware of at height and is easily managed (the other beng not to ascend too fast, climb high sleep low etc). I always have a cup of tea on the go when at base camps (not unusual to down over twenty cups a day) as one of the things that causes dehydration at altitude is the extremely dry air; it just sucks the moisture out (I recently tried a warm-air breather type of face mask which helped with this though). So all this fluid intake counters the dry air etc so I am probably normally hydrated as you say GPS. Climbers who have been stuck at extreme altitude due to storms etc have lost their lives as a result of the above when they have run out of gas to melt snow with (see the K2 disaster in the 80s). It's not pretty.

With the shower thing, don't bother; you'll only smell everyone elses stench who haven't showered. My record is six weeks... Go the baby wipes instead

[GPSGuided]

Do you have a formula/guideline for your fluid intake at altitude? Or do you just go by the colour of the urine?

[RonK]

Do you have a formula/guideline for your fluid intake at altitude? Or do you just go by the colour of the urine?

Nope, you go by the need to pee regularly.

[horsecat]

Do you have a formula/guideline for your fluid intake at altitude? Or do you just go by the colour of the urine?

Yep, gin clear pee is the aim. Easy to identify if you are / aren't adequately hydrated. Any excuse for a drink should always be taken (rest stops, when you wake in the night and as many cups of tea as possible when sitting about camp etc. If my pee is yellow (or even orange) I won't ascend any further until I'm hydrated properly

[Hallu]

So you've never been to these altitudes ? Personally I feel the altitude at 2600 + m. Below that it's fine. But some people can already feel sick at 2000 m so you never know... And the way you handle altitude has nothing to do with fitness. You can be an iron man champion and yet have huge headaches, vertigo, and pain in your teeth at 4000 m.

[heracles26]

I have no experience in high altitude

[Hallu]

Well technically you do as the pressure in an airplane is set to be the equivalent air pressure at 2000 m high =)

[GPSGuided]

6000'. Only if that's in meters, then everyone will get a good workout.

[wayno]

mix up your training., on the days you have the most free time, put in longer steady days than your current two to three hous on your feet at least once a fortnight.. dont over do it if you're not feeling up to it. and go for it when you are.... high volume training of two hours and over generates the greatest increase in blood vessels and that is crucial to coping with heavy exercise, also increases your overall ability to generate energy in a sustained way.

throw in some short intense workouts even down to ten minutes duration, that maximises you O2 uptake. and build on top of the long slow endurance, but don't over do it.

walking steep hills at a decent pace, can build a similar fitness to running,
dont run fast downhill, its the fastest way to damage your legs..

[Hallu]

+1 on the running downhill. It's like begging for your knees to be shattered before you're 50.

[Lizzy]

When I did some trekking I would order a large thermos of hot lemon as soon as I arrived at a tea house & drink, drink, drink!! I also did as advised to climb high, sleep low (as possible). Walking from Jiri should help enormously. I did Annapurna Circuit before Everest region which was a longer, slower gain in elevation which I think helped with acclimatisation and definitely fitness.
Have a wonderful trip

[Ellobuddha]

Lots of great advice


For me personally, I found that lots of longer (25km plus) walks with plenty of big slow Hills was the best training. The long grind and focus of just keeping moving one foot forward uphill was the best mental training.

[Drew]

I have read that the trek is quite difficult and so am a bit concerned regarding fitness levels.

I am 26 years old, go to the gym 3x a week and run 6km 3x a week as well as hiking for 2-3 hours once a week.

You're young and it sounds like you're pretty active so you'll be fine I'm sure. I had glandular fever before doing 3 Passes last year so the planned training went out the window. I lost a couple of kilos and was feeling pretty crap until arriving in Kathmandu (spent a week in Kathmandu Valley before the trek). Yet apart from one tough day (the second day up to Namche when I was affected by either altitude or my illness or both) I found the walk pretty easy. My girlfriend found it pretty easy too and she's not super fit and didn't really do any training either.

Walking in from Jiri will help a lot with acclimatisation.

There are a couple of 3 Passes trip reports on the forum that you might find helpful.

Enjoy! It's amazing!

[RonK]

The walk from Jiri crosses three passes including Lamjura La which is around 3500m, so your acclimatisation will be well underway by the time you reach the NP.
However you need to do your research carefully since many of the village en route were damaged by the recent earthquake. No doubt the villagers will be appreciative of trekkers but there may be shortages and detours.
I would be taking a few more rest days. It would worthwhile spending a day at Junbesi to visit the Thuben Choling monastery. At Namche plan your acclimatisation walk to take in the Everest View Hotel, and the villages of Khumjung and Khunde. A rest day at Tengboche or Deboche to visit the monastery is a good idea.
And a visit to EBC would not be complete without ascending Kala Pattar. Same at Gokyo - the view from the summit of Gokyo Ri is stupendous.
I've also heard some reports that there may significant earthquake damage on the way down from Renjo La

[heracles26]

Thanks for all the tips everyone, much appreciated! !

[wayno]

Thanks for all the tips everyone, much appreciated! !

remember, photographs, or it never happened

[Moondog55]

Don't forget to donate as much as you can while there; even if it means paying 2 porters or something

[heracles26]

Definitely Wayno!! that reminds me I need to read up on the effects of high altitude on electronics and battery times etc!