Macpac Epic Sleeping Bags

[Oldmate]

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone has tried the new line of Epic (bright orange) sleeping bags. The specs look ok, lots of high quality down and lighter fabrics than previous models. I believe this line will replace both the Sanctuary and Express ranges. Saw the epic 1000 in store the other day - too much bag for my needs, but looks like it would work in Antarctica.

Interested in any experiences or opinions. Love my EE quilt for three seasons, but looking for a winter bag for NZ, think the 600 or 800 might work.

Cheers

[Oldmate]

Looks like I'll be the guinea pig and try it out, picked up the 800 standard size today.

1.4kg, so won't be carrying it anywhere the quilt will do., but I have a few things planned where this will come in handy. I was very tempted on WM bags too, but will see how we go.

I'm 6' exactly and the std size is a perfect comfortable fit. I like the idea of treated down for some moisture resistance. Shell is pertex quantum, and is quite thin, you can actually see the down through it a little bit. Sale price seemed ok, wouldn't want to pay full retail though.

Anyway, here is the link http://www.macpac.com.au/epic-800-sleeping-bag.html

Will post a quick review and some photos when I get a chance to test it.

[wayno]

macpac are just one of a no of chain stores who's RRP's are over inflated to make their sale prices look more appealing, the sale price is the only price worth paying.
should be an OK bag. macpac have done a good job with sleeping bags in the past.. pertex make top quality fabrics. I've never heard of hyperdry down treatment, cant be a bad thing to have some sort of water resistant treatment of the down.\will certainly be a warm bag with that much down and mummy design, only thing is if you try and use it much above the designed temps, you're feet and legs will cook if you can't open the sleeping bag out at the lower end.. it's essentially a niche bag for cold conditions only, I've got a similar bag and its pretty much a winter bag only...

[Moondog55]

I looked at the link and saw the Primaloft bag I note they are promoting its use as an overbag but do not show the dimensions.
But being a fan of double bags I'm interested as an intellectual exercise
If the pictures are a good size representation it looks to small for an overbag
@ Oldmate How big is the footbox on the new bag? The small size of the footbox [ I have size 13 feet] was my big complaint on the only Macpac bag I've ever owned

[wayno]

the epic 400 looks like it might be a slightly different shape the toe box looks wider at least ..

[Moondog55]

Or perhaps the other bags are wider cut in the chest and shoulder area?

[wayno]

possibly, or a bit of both

[Oldmate]

Thanks for the replies guys. Totally agree Wayno, cold weather only, the 800 wouldn't be a good choice as an all-rounder. Apparently the new line up will be the epic, latitude and roam series.
Moondog, the foot box is not huge on this, comfortable for my size 8 feet, but you may find the same issues with big feet. The shoulder area is quite roomy, think I could wear a down jacket inside, but probably not a hugely thick on. I did notice the lighter bags looked to be a different shape as Wayno says. You've got me interested in the over bag idea now, and might think about that if I come up with any adventure plans that might need it.

Here in NZ the sale ends Sunday, but the next one is sure to be just around the corner.

[Moondog55]

I just got an email from Macpac telling me that there is an XL in the synthetic bag [ that isn't on the website] but that it would be a tight fit over an XL 1000 and my bag is probably bigger than that

[north-north-west]

What is the temperature rating on that bag? I've been trying to find it on their site but not getting anywhere. Obviously missing the obvious . . .

[wayno]

on the product specs tab at the bottom of the table in iddy biddy widdle text.

Temperature Rating
Comfort -7°C / Limit -14°C / Extreme -35°C

[GPSGuided]

"Extreme -35°C"? Wow! Is it even relevant for this bag?

[Moondog55]

"Extreme -35°C"? Wow! Is it even relevant for this bag?

I admit it's a long shot for Australia but given the comments on the synthetic bag as an overbag they may be seeing how far they can push the advertising envelope; I would have said the Extreme limit was more like -25C which is relevant occasionally but even -14C as a comfort rating is pushing 800 grams of 800 loft power down.
Remembering that " Extreme / Survival" limit comes with warnings about frostbite and hypothermia

[GPSGuided]

That's right. Not as if anyone will be buying it for the 'extreme' end of its performance.

[wayno]

my old fairydown everest bag has 900gm of down, no idea what the loft power is but it's pretty good. and its rating was minus 25

[Joomy]

"Extreme -35°C"? Wow! Is it even relevant for this bag?

I admit it's a long shot for Australia but given the comments on the synthetic bag as an overbag they may be seeing how far they can push the advertising envelope; I would have said the Extreme limit was more like -25C which is relevant occasionally but even -14C as a comfort rating is pushing 800 grams of 800 loft power down.
Remembering that " Extreme / Survival" limit comes with warnings about frostbite and hypothermia

Not 100% sure what you mean here Moondog, but ~800 grams of down is typical of bags in the -15 to -20 category. The Rab Andes 800 has 800g of 800 is rated to -22 (might be optimistic). The Western Mountaineering Antelope has 735g of 850 and is rated to -15 (WM are generally more conservative than the EN rating system). Possibly you are used wider/roomier bags in which 800g of down doesn't go as far as in narrower bags.

That said, I don't know how Macpac constantly manage to get such relatively poor performance out of their sleeping bags. This Epic 800 is 1440g and rated at -14. Rab's Neutrino Endurance 800 is 1220g and rated to roughly -15 on the EN test. WM's Antelope is 1105g and is rated at -15 by WM (again, conservatively, it's probably -18 on the EN scale).

[simonm]

I've never heard of hyperdry down treatment, cant be a bad thing to have some sort of water resistant treatment of the down.

Wayno - HyperDry is the hydrophobic down produced by Allied Feather.

[Moondog55]

Joomy you may be right; I am used to wider cut bags as I hate the constrictive claustrophobic effect of tight cut bags. Making a very tight bag is the cheapest & lightest way to get down to a particular rating, not necessarily the best one sometimes

[Aidan]

Always been very happy and warm in my Macpac sleeping bags in a range of conditions.

I've heard it said that Macpac are more honest with their ratings than many.

I've an XP800 which I'd expect to handle most NZ conditions that I'd consider being outdoors in.
Alternatively I've an Express 400 xl which is way more than enough for WA winters and gets most of its usage unzipped for my cycle touring.

Never any problems with zips (fingers crossed) and I've always received good service including non warranty repairs which were timely and well done.
They are my go to brand for much of my gear, especially tents and sleeping bags which I've never been disappointed with.

Call me optimistic but I suspect you'll be very happy with your new acquisition Oldmate.

[Oldmate]

Hey all,

Some interesting (and valid) points you raise Joomy, so will go into a little bit of my thinking behind trying this sleeping bag. Firstly, I am not what you would describe as a Macpac brand loyalist, although I have a few pieces of their gear that I do quite like.

You mention some nice sleeping bags in you post, specifically the WM Antelope I like the look of a lot. At first I was keen on the sea to summit sleeping bags, traverse and talus series, but when I tested them I found the regular size too short (i'm exactly 6'), and the long too long - my feet weren't in the footbox, so i decided to leave them out. I am not sure with the western mountaineering bags which size would be best for me, and we don't have a supplier in NZ where I can try them. They sure look nicely built though, and from all accounts their ratings are an accurate reflection of the capability of the bag. I suspect these ratings are based more on real world performance than the EN method of sticking a heated dummy into the bag. `I do think one of the ways they achieve such low weight and high warmth is by cutting the bags quite small, which would probably actually help if they ever did do EN13537 testing as there would be less air inside to be heated.

I am a little bit wary of the EN tests, and although I do get carried away comparing specs they don't always tell the full story. The Rab bags you mention (apart from costing around $1000 NZ) are from what I can tell not EN tested either.

"2012 saw the introduction of a revised version of EN13537 for sleeping bags. Rab have decided not to EN test their bags with fill weights of 800g and upwards. They feel that the revised EN test does not provide accurate results for bags operating at these lower temperatures. Instead Rab have provided a rating for these bags based on the EN 13537: 2002, the BS TOG results and real-life experience by their athletes and users - the value is know as the Rab Sleep Limit and this is the only value given for these bags." [from http://www.downsleepingbag.co.uk/sleeping-bags/CHOOSING-A-BAG.html]

There is some interesting discussion of EN testing for cold weather bags on many forums such as: http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-selection/topics/91375.html

I kind of figure (hope) that most well made mummy bags with 800gm of 800loft down will probably have similar real world performance.

Another factor in this choice is that for the few specific trips I have in mind, I will not have to carry this on my back very far, so weight was not the first consideration (think basecamps, sleds, helicopters and porters in some locations).

Aidan, its great to hear from someone who has used these sleeping bags, thanks for the input!

[wayno]

everyones different, you have to understand how your body relates individually to those ratings. people vary a lot in the amount of heat they put out in their sleep, the same bag can have a different effect on two people... women generally generate less heat than men on average... even ignoring the fact that the tests are done in labs under specific conditions that relate to the real world in a limited waay, your own metabolism throws a curve ball at how you will relate to those results and which bag you will need.. its good if you can borrow someone elses bag, know what the rating is and find out for yourself how warm or cold you really find it in relation to the bags temp ratings. the owner of the bag may say its a cold or hot bag and you find out that its completely the opposite when you try it... theres other issues to like how damp the air is, damp air cools you down far faster than dry air and the moisture build up faster in a bag if the outside air is damp because the moisture cant move out of the inside of the bag and builds up...
its no good getting a bag thats a snug fit mummy design if you're going to feel claustrophobic and trapped in it and uncomfortable because you can't spread out inside the bag.

[Oldmate]

Fully agree Wayno. I'm normally a warm sleeper, but even warm sleepers get cold at times.

As well as this sleeping bag I also picked up the new synmat winterlite. R-value is 4.9. Do you think this is high enough for winter camping below the snow line in a tent, South Island NZ? The tapered shape feels very comfortable. http://www.bivouac.co.nz/products/exped ... homestatic

[wayno]

says rated to minus seventeen

he likes an R value of 5 in the american winters http://sectionhiker.com/sleeping-pad-r-values/

[Oldmate]

Thanks Wayno, interesting link.

[wayno]

Thanks Wayno, interesting link.

Phils extremely experienced and knows what he's talking about...

these guys tested the standard synmat

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping- ... ws/Ratings