Sleep Apnea and CPAP machine

[v17l]

hi Darren,
just a quick update. Whilst not bushwalking, I had the occasion last week to drive from Townsville to the Alice with my daughter and her friend from overseas, whom I don't know. We were travelling cheap, bringing my daughter's gear back from uni, so we were sharing the same accommodation, ie triple room. My use of the transend at night was not even commented on. Mind you, I was tired from the driving, put my mask on and crashed. Function overcame any worries of using the cpap in public.
I am trying to get a leave pass for a trip in Thailand, in the new year and will be staying in some hostels in a dorm. Will report back on how this goes in terms of using in a more public sleeping arrangement.
cheers
stevet

[darrenb]

Thanks for the update Steve. So far I've not acted on it, but haven't really had the chance to go walking either. I'm hoping to change that in the new year. Your info is encouraging.

[Moondog55]

Well it seems as if I am going to need one of these damned things myself soon so how much are they?
2 days is pretty lousy battery life for a battery pack weighing a kilo+ but a power source is only a power source so there must be alternatives out there

[darrenb]

Gidday Moondog. Don't quote me, but I think I was looking at around $1200 - $1300 for a 2-night battery and fixed pressure Trancend CPAP. They are available from CPAP Victoria, MCS, UFS Dispensaries and probably others. I agree that two nights is restrictive, though they do have a folding portable solar panel for a bit more dosh. So far I haven't found a viable alternative power source that is compatible and Trancend won't back it anyway. I've been on CPAP therapy for a year and a half and take my machine on hols (my Resmed unit can run on 12v with an appropriate adapter). So far I have just gone without when hiking but haven't gone for more than a few nights without CPAP. I am planning to do 10 day walk in Tassie in March, so that will be a test. I know that I'll get a crappy sleep each night, but hope that the exertion when walking will make up for the depleted oxygen levels. (You probably should seek medical advice, but I'm just taking the risk). Carrying even a portable CPAP just wouldn't be viable for me on this type of trip. I'll pitch my tent away from others if possible, or they'll think there has been a devil invasion.

[darrenb]

battery pack weighing a kilo+

Pretty sure the P8 battery is around half a kilo.

[Moondog55]

Interesting as I've just come back from the doctor who has referred me to a different specialist
The new young doctor has made a different diagnosis and reckons I do not have asthma but COPD [ Bugger but 30+ years in smokey kitchens surrounded by chain smokers will do that] and a CPAP may not make any difference in the long term. Maybe the Boss and I should sleep in separate rooms

[Moondog55]

Back again
A year later and several sleeps wearing all the wires and a definite diagnosis of obstructive sleep apnea that is not connected to the COPD but both conditions are making each other worse it seems
both doctors want me to start a trial immediately
This is going to take a lot of fun out of my ski trips unless I can find a reasonable power supply
So how big a battery and solar panel am I going to need for this?
We do happen to have an older model travel CPAP machine here but no matter what it is a heavy bulky power sink that runs on 12V alternating
For those of you who have been using these machines for while how long can you be away from them before bad effects start to show?
Interesting side effect of the study was also that apparently I am not getting anywhere near enough REM sleep time, does using a machine help that?

[darrenb]

Interesting side effect of the study was also that apparently I am not getting anywhere near enough REM sleep time, does using a machine help that?

Yep. I'm no expert, but I think that is normal for OSA sufferers. Once you get used to sleeping with the mask you'll wake feeling like you've had a decent night's sleep. I use a little Resmed P10 nasal mask, which suits me well (now). I hated it the first time I used it during the trial and tried various other types before going back to the P10. (Some were intolerable - persevere and try different types). I am much more comfortable with it now and dislike sleeping without because when I do I have a disrupted sleep and wake up feeling like I have a hangover. I don't think that this was made any worse by using CPAP for the past 2.5 years, but has just developed as I have aged. I simply feel better when I use it. Back in March I walked the South Coast track in Tassie, which including a few nights in a Backpacker's hotel resulted in about 10 days without CPAP. I felt tired during the trip, but not terribly. When I got home I slept almost 24 hours straight, which is very unusual for me and I was relieved to get back on my machine. My OSA is considered to be "mild" and experiences would vary depending on an individual's condition. Take your doctor's advice. I've since shelled out for a Transcend portable CPAP but am yet to take it on a trip. I'm doing a couple of hut-based walks in NZ in May and I'm intending to take it. When I add the mask, hose, bag, battery, etc it weighs about as much as my tent, so its a compromise, but one I consider to be worthwhile. I've arranged my trip so that I have a night in town between walks to re-charge. I can get 3 nights out of the P8 battery (6 hours/night on a low pressure). I don't consider the solar panel to be viable when conditions are likely to be overcast. Good luck!
Info on Transcend and solar here: http://mytranscend.com/products/power-a ... evice=2084

[Moondog55]

Mine is severe I am told.
I guess one of the worst side effects of not getting proper sleep is that I am healing more slowly than usual and my arthritis is getting worse it seems because of it.
I am looking at a car battery and small solar panels for my winter trip

[darrenb]

I hope you aren't lugging that car battery too far Moondog! I bought a 12v adapter for my other machine so that I could use it for car-based camps. I also bought a 12v extension lead from Anaconda, which means I can leave the auxiliary battery in the car and set up a tent on the ground. I can see myself doing more vehicle-based trips in future too. I'd be interested to hear how you go.

[Moondog55]

From Windy Corner car-park to my camp at Pretty Valley
Looking at small deep-cycle batteries I am in shock at how expensive they have become, both small amorphous panels in parallel only give 1.25Amp charging current. I may have to look at larger motorcycle batteries to get cost and mass down

[drakkar]

I get about 3 nights away before I start to notice a decline.

If I'm not working and have ample time to relax during the day, recovery times don't change.

My recovery times are VERY dependant on my testosterone levels, which can drop from sleep/breathing disorders. (There is some frightening statistics about test levels in men in general these days, and no where near enough GP's checking for this before giving out anti depressants ETC)

[darrenb]

Information on CPAP batteries:
Before I decided to purchase the Transcend I found this mob in Dandenong. They supply batteries for standard cpap machines (much lighter than car batteries).
http://www.cpapbatteries.com.au/index.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1_bXj8PMl8

[Moondog55]

Way more dollars than I can afford but I can see the sense in it for long travels away from power.
MC batteries are about $55-even if not deep cycle they should do for a fixed camp

[Moondog55]

To those of you who have been using these machines for a while how long did it take for them to make a difference?
I've been trialling one now for 3 nites and I can't feel any difference at all. I must admit tho that it isn't as uncomfortble as I was fearing

[darrenb]

It took a while to feel any real benefit and I sometimes still wonder how much. It may have been weeks or months. Apparently my health is better for it - certainly less bruising on my right side (the side my wife sleeps on). I'm glad to hear that you are coping with your mask OK. You can usually rent different types to try before you buy.

[Moondog55]

certainly less bruising on my right side (the side my wife sleeps on). .

Well this may turn out to be the major benefit then, apparently my snoring and twitching was keeping The Boss awake and a well rested Boss is not a Le-Grumpy Boss

[Moondog55]

Well my doctor is happy enough
Day 5 of the trial, no problem using the machine or sleeping with a mask, BA training helps with that I think
My blood pressure is down a bit, from 166 over 88 to 133 over 77, as another benefit my craving for sugar is dissipating
Never had high BP before, I'm a tad overweight but only by a couple of kilos; so I guess it is related to the poor sleep

[shehaal]

Well my doctor is happy enough
Day 5 of the trial, no problem using the machine or sleeping with a mask, BA training helps with that I think
My blood pressure is down a bit, from 166 over 88 to 133 over 77, as another benefit my craving for sugar is dissipating
Never had high BP before, I'm a tad overweight but only by a couple of kilos; so I guess it is related to the poor sleep

Hey Moondog, how have you found the CPAP machine? I recently found out I have sleep apnea and have just finished up a month-long trial with a Resmed 10. I wouldn't say I'm overweight - annual checkups show I'm within normal range of everything, vegan diet, but probably a little unfit these days as my job has become less active (and, through poor sleep, less energy to do much about it). I noticed a big difference after a couple of weeks (more rested, dreaming during the night, less prone to migraines), but my concern is how this will impact hiking. I got a Resmed 9 from a relative, but it's built like a tank and weighs as much! The centre I did the trial through said the batteries only last one night! I will either need a smaller/lighter unit, or a donkey for hiking.

[Moondog55]

I am using a cheaper S/H machine and it too is built like a tank
I am saving for a travel machine. This winter people will just have to put up with me snoring, no power at the Pretty Valley tent site.
Mind you the last 13 weeks I have been full of pain killers, Pre and Post-op and only just now getting off the opioids.

[Moondog55]

Long term update.
I have just purchased from the USA a LW S/H travel machine.
Only just arrived so I am going to trial it tonite. It is a BEAS Z1 Auto.
Tiny when compared to my bedside machine and doesn't weigh all that much.
But at the moment I can't afford the shell and battery pack so I am going to need a small stable battery pack power supply to go wit it if i am going to go walking overnite when the lockdown ends.
https://www.z1cpap.com.au/shop/z2/z2-auto/
https://www.z1cpap.com.au/shop/accessor ... -capacity/
My disastrous walk in the Brisbane Ranges last month showed me I have a more serious problem than I thought
More than 2 nites and I really will need to travel with a pack animal

[jane]

Have you checked out the Lithium - ion battery pack used for the phillips dream station, its small and has a run time of 14 hours before needing to be recharged .
There is also another similar battery a different brand though , and it can be paired with a few different types of machines.
I have found CPAP direct at Maroochydore to be very helpful, talk to Greg, who goes camping and understands.

[Moondog55]

Thanx jane but really I'm not prepared or financially able to pay the exorbitant and overpriced rates for so called medical grade power supplies.
12V DC is 12V DC

[Moondog55]

Long overdue update and a retraction.
It seems that I really do not have a choice with batteries and I am going to have to shell out for a "Medical Grade" battery if I am going to have any chance of continuing to bush walk and ski tour, the little lead acid batteries are simply too heavy, car camping is no problem with a LA deep cycle battery in the short term tho.
There have been some advances in Lithium batteries and LiPO seems to be a better option now rather than Li-ion and now the problem seems to be an efficient portable solar charging panel.
The seller has recommended this product added to my existing rucksack but it is an additional weight
https://www.remsleep.com.au/product/rem ... -backpack/

[Son of a Beach]

He simply lost the weight through exercise and eating well, went from about 120kg to 75kg (he is 6'3") and then he no longer needed the machine...

That's impressive! Another of the lifestyle diseases.

Yes, and no. It is a lifestyle issue for some (probably most?) sleep apnea patients.

A close family member of mine is otherwise very healthy, quite slim and not old. Her doctor refused to accept that she had sleep apnea simply because she didn't fit the usual profile (simply refused to even order a sleep study!).

She had to fight hard and go through multiple doctors before somebody took it seriously. When she finally found a doctor who was able to think for himself, and then got tested, the doctor told her that she was a fairly extreme case, and needed not only a CPAP machine immediately, but actually recommended surgery in order to sort it out. Apparently she was in grave danger of actually dying from the condition, despite being skinny and fit and living a very healthy lifestyle.

[Moondog55]

Well apparently I snored very badly even back when I was running marathons and was 15 kilos lighter and 50 years fitter, I just always thought I wasn't getting enough sleep.