Crossing Doubtful Creek: Jagungal Area

[TerryMcC]

Hi...I'm planning a trip into the Mount Jagungal area and wish to approach the mountain from Cesjacks Hut. I've had to wade across Doubtful Creek in previous years, which is pretty cold in winter. There is often a snow bridge not far from Cesjacks Hut, but I'm not too sure where it is. Would anyone be able to recommend a suitable crossing point?

kind regards

Terry

[Lophophaps]

Terry, I have not been there in winter for ages, but I have been there in summer a few times recently. First, where not to go. NW of Cesjacks is a hill on the left bank, 298994. I got across here in summer with dry boots but in winter I'd avoid this. There's trees below Cesjacks and the hill is rather steep. The west of this hill has brilliant open country all the way to the Grey Mare FT. Stay well above the creek.

Upstream of here is generally more open. There's a wide flat crossing just upstream of the creek junction at 298985, with light scrub on the Cesjacks side and none on the far side. The far side has scrub a bit later, may have to cast around for the best way.

If skiing from Cesjacks to Jagungal I'd go SW to Macalister Saddle, and then up the Toolong Range. This avoids the Doubtful crossing and the tangle of sometimes steep scrubby slopes east of Jagungal Saddle. Going via Toolong also spreads the climbing out over a slightly longer distance, and avoids the steepish slopes west of Jagungal Saddle.

[TerryMcC]

Thank you...that is very useful information. We are on snowshoes rather than skis (too hard on the knees). I think that the best bet is to head upstream until we find a suitable place to cross. Not too worried about a river crossing, if needed. Again, thanks for the great advice.

[Lophophaps]

Snow shoes and me do not agree. I need skis for my famous turn, the Telemark cartwheel. Apparantly it's quite pretty to watch, but often hurts. I don't plan TCs, they just happen.

I'd still follow the way I suggest, as it avoids steep, scrub and creek crossing. The Doubtful is a long frost hollow, so the trees and scrub are above it. Hence, if you go from the hut SW contouring, the creek will rise to meet you. Then keeping above the creek there should be clear ground all the way. Then NW up Toolong, also open, I think. Most of the ridges and slopes on the south and SE sides of Jagungal are open.

Be very careful coming down the slope above 244977. It's quite steep, has small rock bluffs, and a boulder field at the bottom, about 1845 metres. I would not like to descend that slope in a whiteout. Being steep grass there's a risk of slab avalanche. If there's deep snow the rock field is fine, but otherwise it would be very easy to break through the snow and bust a leg or ankle. Not good.

Finally, be very careful with gear on the ridges. I read about a bloke near the summit that had a map case on the ground picked up by the wind and had to chase it a fair way down from the ridge. Then up again. Oops.

[TerryMcC]

Thank you - great advice. Yes, I gave up skiing due to too many tumbles and out of control descents with packs. Snowshoeing gives me the chance to still get into the back country albeit a little slower. Yes, we will be careful on the higher ridges of Jagungal and unlikely to attempt it in poor visibility - been in these sorts of conditions on the Main Range too many times. I think that we will head to McAlister Saddle and push up towards Jagungal Saddle and camp the night, with an early morning ascent. Should be great! Thank you.

[rcaffin]

Hi...I'm planning a trip into the Mount Jagungal area and wish to approach the mountain from Cesjacks Hut. I've had to wade across Doubtful Creek in previous years, which is pretty cold in winter. There is often a snow bridge not far from Cesjacks Hut, but I'm not too sure where it is. Would anyone be able to recommend a suitable crossing point?

There are two crossing places in winter.

The first crossing is below the Monolith, which is at the foot of the little Cesjacks valley. Just head down the valley from the Hut and you will soon see this tall 'Monolith' rock on the far bank. You usually rock-hop across on boulders below this Monolith. Sometimes there are snow bridges part of the way, but they are not always solid. While this is a preferred and easty crossing place in summer, in winter with snow it can be a bit tricky. But it goes fine if you make sure you are standing squarely on the rocks and not on the unsupported snow.

The second is not always there. Head down the Cesjacks valley to the Doubtful and turn left. Follow the bank of the Doubtful going upstream until you are opposite the valley coming from the direction of Jagungal. Sometimes there is a snow bridge here which can be skied. However, with the poorer snow these years, I would have some reservations about doing it on snowshoes.

If you then head up this side valley you can reach Jagungal Saddle fairly quickly, by gullies or ridges. Going via McAlister is a long way around.

I would supply photos of both if this Forum SW could upload them.

Cheers
Roger

[Lophophaps]

Certainly if there are bridges cross at the creek at the creek junction at 298985, which is about 5.5 kilometres Cesjacks-Jagungal. If you go SW from Cesjacks the creek junction and valley to the west will be seen in 10 minutes. My directions above were based on poor snow and to avoid wading. Staying on the true right (Cesjacks) side to perhaps 276966 - near McAlister Saddle - is about 7 kilometres Cesjacks-Jagungal and has gentler slopes. Knowing about both options means that a decision can be made on the day.

[TerryMcC]

Thanks guys - that is good advice. I've been also looking at an alternative route as another option, which is walking in via Flanagan's Hut along the road which generally follows the Bulls Peak Creek, and then push up onto the ridgeline which runs N-S from Cesjacks. Thereafter, I thought that I could drop down to the Doubtful Creek area and head into Jagungal Saddle. It is a total of about 10.5 kms. There are a couple of things I don't know: 1) how far could I drive along the track which heads off to the NW at GR 374 333? 2) What the vegetation like from Flanagan's Hut to the top of the ridgeline which comes out near the cairn?

[rcaffin]

walking in via Flanagan's Hut along the road which generally follows the Bulls Peak Creek, and then push up onto the ridgeline which runs N-S from Cesjacks.

Hum - that scrub is on the shadow side, so it may be a little heavy. In winter, that could be unwise.
The normal access is up the 4WD track from the Gungarlin plains to the Parks gate near Cesjacks. It may not be drivable in the snow, but it WILL be fine on skis or snowshoes.

how far could I drive along the track which heads off to the NW at GR 374 333?

Off the top of my head, that is about 35 km away from Flanagans. Are you sure about that GR?

Cheers
Roger

[TerryMcC]

Hi Roger...working off two maps... it is GR 374 963. I'm well aware of the 4WD track up to the park gate...in recent times you can't get past a locked gate 2-3 kms short of the park boundary...and several winters ago we could not drive over the Bulls Peak Creek as it was too high, hence my thoughts were turning a Plan B.

[rcaffin]

it is GR 374 963.

That heads towards Flanagans. But there may be one or more locked gates along the way as you are driving through several different private properties. I haven't been that way for a while.

I'm well aware of the 4WD track up to the park gate...in recent times you can't get past a locked gate 2-3 kms short of the park boundary.

Really? That is definitely new in that case. I drive up and down there quite often. You might like to check with the NPWS at Jindi about that. There have been some problems in that area over the last few years, with some one (or many) taking bolt cutters to the whole NPWS fence and a winch to the Park gate. Mind you, I imagine that will still get you up onto the ridge.

several winters ago we could not drive over the Bulls Peak Creek as it was too high

Yeah, happens, during the thaw. Then we walk in. Sure, it adds a few km.

Cheers
Roger

[TerryMcC]

Thanks Roger...welcomed advice. Kind regards, Terry

[TerryMcC]

Well we are back from a successful snowshoeing adventure in the Mount Jagaungal area. Drove all the way through Bulls Peak Creek and managed to park on the open ground below the locked gate. About a 3-4 kms walk to Cesjacks hut. Crossed Doubtful Creek as suggested by Roger at the rocks near the Monolith. No snow bridges and it was an easy crossing hopping across the rocks. Pushed onto Jagungal Saddle and thereafter climbed Mt J that afternoon. Great trip. Thanks for all the advice for this trip. Kind regards, Terry

[rcaffin]

OY!! You don't get away that easily!!!
How much snow was there? Depth that is. Grass showing through?
Overnight temps?
Photos?

Cheers
Roger

[TerryMcC]

Hi Roger and fella adventurers. Attached is a pic of crossing Doubtful Creek at the end of Aug 16 near the Monolith, just to the NW of Cesjacks Hut. As you can see the crossing was pretty easy - no wet feet. Good snow cover to Jagungal Saddle and then onto Mt J. Snowshoed the entire way. Overnight temps were cold - got down to minus 5. I decided not to erect my tent and found a nice place to bivy in a well sheltered place between two rocks. Nice weather overnight with good star cover, under the clouds came in just before midnight. Weather on the Sunday morning was poor with Mt J covered in cloud. Glad we cracked it on the Saturday afternoon. Great trip.

[rcaffin]

Thanks.
NOT a lot of snow there. I suspect it can only get worse.

Cheers
Roger

[Lophophaps]

Glad you had a good trip. Patchy snow cover for August. That is light years away from a trip when we had a massive snowfall at Cesjacks, weather socked in for three days, could not move. We came in the long way, via Bradneys Gap.

From Cesjacks Hut

[rcaffin]

Crossing Doubtful Creek on the snow bridge - when it is there.

Doubtful Creek snow bridge

0775.jpg (114.33 KiB) Viewed 21853 times

OK on long XC skis. Snowshoes????

Cheers
Roger

[Lophophaps]

Roger, I would not want to be too far left or right from the crossing point, especially towards the camera. Thin cover. Snowshoes may not have enough length to bridge the creek.

[rcaffin]

Snow shoes would definitely NOT bridge the creek there. (I know how wide it is in summer time.) Sue let me go first on skis ...
Cheers
Roger

[TerryMcC]

Looks upstream from the Monolith crossing point. Good snow cover on the western side of Doubtful creek.

[rcaffin]

Yes. Straight down the creek from Cesjacks and upstream for about 400 m. Right at the LH edge of the pic you can see the end of the Cesjacks valley. This is right in the middle of the valley pointing at Jag.
Cheers
Roger

[TerryMcC]

Yes, we saw this crossing point - a bit too much water over the rocks, but certainly a possibility in better weather.

[johnrs]

Roger
The last property owner has put a locked barrier 50m up the hill beyond the last plain.
??Spring Hill.
He has built quite a pleasant lodge on private land up the hill off to the north which I understand has no council approvals.
His justifications for blocking access are that
1/ the road has deviated from the gazetted right of way
2/ track damage, which he personally has repaired with loads of gravel.
The individual likes his privacy.
He is an ex park ranger.

In any case it makes no difference in winter
and in summer the walking is pleasant and the barrier probably reduces day trippers numbers at Cesjacks.
There is quite a huts and park history of difficulty in this area
There is terrible pig damage around Cesjacks through to the Upper Geehi plains.
John

[rcaffin]

Hi John

I did write:
That gate could get him into some strife with NPWS, as they react poorly to attempts to block access to their boundary gates. And KHA will also object as they maintain Cesjacks. And RFS will also object. As will one or two other property owners. Could be interesting.
However:
My wife has reminded me that I did ask the Jindy NPWS about this, and was told that the gate is only closed during the snow season, to stop the road from being trashed. It should have been opened on 1-Oct. So I now doubt that the NPWS (or the others) will object at all.

On other matters:
My understanding from a Council Engineer is that it does not matter if the road itself deviates a bit from the gazetted right of way: the road surface counts as the right of way despite the deviation. Common sense rules. That was to an explicit Q re another location.
Track damage - yeah, it's an ongoing problem up there, especially when the surface is very wet (like under snow).

There is quite a huts and park history of difficulty in this area
Trust me, I KNOW. If not all of it, then most of it, going back to the old ski lodges up top.

Pig damage - sigh. About time the traps were reactivated. it's been a while.

Cheers
Roger

[johnrs]

Thanks Roger
Lovely area to walk or ski in
John

[kjbeath]

My understanding from a Council Engineer is that it does not matter if the road itself deviates a bit from the gazetted right of way: the road surface counts as the right of way despite the deviation. Common sense rules. That was to an explicit Q re another location.

I'd always wondered about this and did some digging. The Inclosed Lands act Section 4 http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/ ... 64/s4.html allows for the road not to be where it is supposed to be, and the definitions exclude the actual road from the inclosed land so it is OK. Interesting that there is no requirement for there to be an actual road, provided there is one on the map and it is done reasonably directly it is OK to pass through.