PLB/GPS

[Deano501]

Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to buy a combined PLB and GPS unit? I can't seem to find anything, maybe I'll have to buy both separately.
Cheers in advance.

[Lophophaps]

Deano, welcome to the forum. As far as I'm aware they are separate units, quite different technology. There's a recent thread on GPSs
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23646

[bernieq]

A PLB is a single function device that must have, at all times, a minimum battery life. That's why they have an expiry date.

Combining another function would compromise the reliability of the PLB.

[GPSGuided]

Some models of InReach can certainly do most of the two but it's not a dedicated PLB which has certain design criteria that are specific to emergency use. This question has been asked many times but the general consensus is to keep the two separate if you take emergency bail-out solutions seriously.

[MrWalker]

Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to buy a combined PLB and GPS unit? I can't seem to find anything, maybe I'll have to buy both separately.
Cheers in advance.

An attempt at a combination is the Delorme InReach, which has SOS capability, but is not a true PLB, because the signal is more likely to be blocked by trees and cliffs than with a dedicated PLB.
It has GPS capability and you can enter waypoints, display your track (not necessarily with a map) and it can show your current location and lead you back to where you started. It is not as good as a dedicated GPS.

I normally carry a real PLB, a good mapping GPS and an InReach, which shows that I don't consider the combination in the InReach to be adequate.

[bernieq]

Actually, point of clarification : PLBs (these days) do have a built-in GPS used to attach position co-ordinates to the signal when activated.

However, you cannot extract position info from it.

IMO, PLB is a requirement, GPS is useful - get both.

[keithy]

bernieq makes an important distinction.

Most current PLBs have GPS receiving/broadcasting capabilities. This means that when activated, the PLB uses the built-in GPS chip to determine the PLB's location using the GPS satellites. Then it sends the rescue beacon signal and it's position to the GPS satellites. The satellites in turn sends the information to the receiving ground stations.

Without the GPS chip in the PLB, the PLB would still send the rescue beacon pulse and the PLB's location would be calculated by the ground stations using the signals received from the various satellites. A PLB with built in GPS is useful to SAR being able to locate your position faster.

However, the GPS built-in to these PLBs do not report the position to the PLB user, and the PLB is not suited for navigation purposes.

The Delorme InReach is an interesting hybrid. To me it is like a satellite texting phone/GPS combo. You can use the GPS to navigate, as well as send text messages or your route to others. As with the Spot tracker, it uses the GEOS subscription based monitoring service and in emergencies, pressing the SOS you can send and receive texts between the monitoring service.

Depending on what you intend to use it for, this might suit your needs, especially if you prioritise satellite messaging and remote tracking over simply "rescue me".

To me the downsides of the InReach are the small screen size and the on-going subscription costs. I'd still consider it if I was after a satellite communicator though.

[johnk1]

Gday Deano,

Depending on what you are doing and where you are, a plb is something you need / should have.

A GPS is something nice to have, but ensure you understand how and are able to navigate without one with a map and compass.

I personally have never had one and don't intend to get one.

I would by a plb and if you want a GPS, I would ask for one at Christmas or birthday time.

Cheers

John

[ribuck]

Wow, the Delorme InReach devices are impressive. It could be very useful to be able to send a text message to anyone from anywhere in the world. It uses the Iridium satellite network. These are low-orbit satellites with excellent coverage even when you are under tree canopy (not in deep canyons though).

In an emergency situation I think it would be very useful to be able to text "The river is up and we'll be a day or two late, but we're OK so don't send out the rescue teams", or "I've been bitten by a tiger snake", or "Six of us were burned by the bushfire so please send multiple helicopters".

The downside is that there's a monthly fee, unlike with a PLB.

I would not use it for routine GPS.

[GPSGuided]

And the monthly fee adds up pretty significantly...

[ribuck]

And the monthly fee adds up pretty significantly...

There's a one-off $30 activation fee, then it's $20 per month for unlimited emergency communication plus up to ten text messages (or weather forecasts) per month. You can suspend service if you will not be using the device for a month, in which case the fee is $6 for that month.

It's not cheap, but I visit a lot of remote places and I'm tempted to get one.

Source: http://www.alwaysinreach.com.au/product ... e/15-rates

[GPSGuided]

Yes, the pricing needs justification.

[photohiker]

The pricing is what it is. We do realise that communication networks have a cost to install and run? There is no real 'free' communication system other than talking face to face

The cost of the InReach subscription is of course more than the free user cost of the PLB communication. Who pays for the PLB communication system and maintenance? Our governments of course.

The difference is that the InReach is a two way communication device that also has emergency communication capability.
It is an active two way device, not a passive one way device like a PLB. The alternative two way device would be a satellite phone which is more bulky and costly to buy and run.

I have used my InReach all over Tasmania, the Australian outback, NZ, the UK, Sweden, Norway, France, Hong Kong and Singapore. Sure, I have spent a couple of hundred dollars for subscription over the time, but for me the value is worthwhile. I can keep in touch with family and friends when required in areas of zero phone capability, and they can see where I am by viewing the tracking online.

[GPSGuided]

To clarify, what I meant by 'pricing needs justification' was in reference to one's needs, not the provider's cost base and pricing. I was pointing out that the subscription price point is one that has to be justifiable for one's needs, one that's much more justifiable for the professionals and serious outdoors people. Harder to justify for a casual recreational outdoors user.

[photohiker]

Sure. Depends on your needs.

If you do a bit of remote walking they are worth it. As ribuck mentioned, you can suspend the monthly cost for times you are not using it. So if you only do one serious walk per year then $20 for that trip.

$20 isn't a difficult price for most that gives you amazing satellite communication, but of course we all have choices.

[RonK]

To clarify, what I meant by 'pricing needs justification' was in reference to one's needs, not the provider's cost base and pricing. I was pointing out that the subscription price point is one that has to be justifiable for one's needs, one that's much more justifiable for the professionals and serious outdoors people. Harder to justify for a casual recreational outdoors user.

I have used my InReach once per year for a month at a time since I bought it for remote solo bike tours. I had no problem justifying the purchase price and the cost of a 30 day premium subscription, and if I used it regularly I would be happy to pay the full annual sub.

Whilst I don't consider my travels particularly risky I'm often out of phone range, and as a solo traveller the InReach gives folks at home great peace of mind to be able to track my progress/precise location at any time and exchange messages if need be, and in the knowledge that I can generate an emergency alert and even back it up with a condition/urgency message.

In fact, even if an incident rendered me incapable of activating an alert, my folks would soon notice my lack of movement and could raise an alert for me.

My wife has used it to message me from EBC.

What price do you put on all that capability?

[GPSGuided]

Good to see existing users have fair justification for the subscription. But going back to Rob's cost calculation, for the one trip per year, the cost would be $20 (for the month of use) + $6 x 11 = $86/yr to keep the unit alive. Not an inconsequential amount adding in the upfront cost. These incidental costs add up but of course it also depends on one's disposable income and discretion.

[photohiker]

Cheer up GPS!

If $86 is too much, then you aren't going to be doing any remote walking. It will cost you more than $86 to get there and back, buy food to take with you, etc, etc.

Not everyone wants this capability, some want to be totally disconnected when they are in remote areas walking and good for them.

I'm sure most could save $86 per year to have this capability if they actually wanted it. We're talking $7.17 per month. lol.

[GPSGuided]

You know the fallacy of breaking it down to $/d or $/mth right? It's in a full list of other $/d items, all adding up to a sum that matters. And exactly because you said that there are many other costs to pursue our leisure, we all need to prioritise and maximise our available funds. As said, it comes down to a personal decision on how the fund is distributed and justified.


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[photohiker]

It's not a fallacy, it is a method of working out what other non fixed costs you are willing to forgo to be able to do or use something that is a small cost on your available disposable income. It's called running a personal budget. I'm sure you have heard of it?

In a personal budget, you put in your fixed costs and your variable costs. Fixed costs like rent or mortgage are not variable, you have to pay them so they get cordoned off. Then you prioritise the variable costs based on your preferences and you draw the line below those that fit your budget and income.

Yep. I'd forgo 2 beers a month to be able to use such an amazing device.

Some people might not forgo a couple of beers, or a counter meal every couple of months, or etc. I would and I do.

[GPSGuided]

The fallacy is not in the division but making the number look small and inconsequential, playing on one's psychology. Better still, $/h, the number is even smaller. To me and for the recreational players, it's a case of knowing one's annual disposable budget and then divide into that of all the priorities. $86/yr is $86/yr, for a few messages. Is that worth it, a very personal call based on personal circumstances.

There's also another way to express the expense ie $/message. If it's 20 messages in a year, then that's $4/message - Another way to budget.

[photohiker]

Most people recieve an income weekly, fortnightly or monthly. It's a reasonable division to do your budget on a monthly basis.

This is a realistic income and expense basis. It is certainly not a fallacy!

[GPSGuided]

Then please add in the upfront cost of this service, or a depreciation plan to be realistic across its years of service. So that's A$500-700 on top of its annual service plan in the first year, for 20 'priceless' feel good messages?


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[photohiker]

If your budget is as tight as you claim, you would have to save up for the device. Maybe a year or so putting away some money each month to save up for the device.

Depreciation? lol. Only if you are in business. I have had mine since release and it works as well now as it arrived. No depreciation to realise and no better device on the market yet IMHO. Cost was ~$300 in 2012, current ebay price is around $250. The loss of value for a wage earner is only realised when the device is sold or lost or stolen. Different for a business and they get a tax benefit for the depreciation. The book value for a business owned InReach over 4 years would be around $60 by now.

I don't think we are talking 'feel good' messages. We are talking about keeping friends and family in good spirits knowing that the user is safe and moving through remote areas as planned. We also have the emergency SOS system if required.

[Mark F]

By the same logic what is the cost of a plb that never gets activated?

Personally the cost of running my SPOT is part of maintaining my relationship with my so.

[north-north-west]

By the same logic what is the cost of a plb that never gets activated?

To quote the Mastercard ad: Peace of mind . . . priceless.

[GPSGuided]

The difference with a PLB is fixed upfront cost for 7 years of use and will be there when one truly needs it. A two way communicator is a nice to have and it better still have enough battery power left in an absolute emergency, along with the acceptance of an ongoing subscription and usage cost on top of a hefty upfront.

PH, there's no claim on my budget. The discussion has been in 3rd person.

[photohiker]

PH, there's no claim on my budget. The discussion has been in 3rd person.

I see. So you actually could afford one, you just don't want to have one or spend a few dollars a year to pay subs on it. That's fine.

Re battery, the v1.5 I have has replaceable batteries and they last well (~125hrs). Easy to carry extra AA's. The newer model has a built in lithium battery (~100hrs) so a user would need to carry a recharge battery on a longer trip.

[roysta]

The pricing is what it is. We do realise that communication networks have a cost to install and run? There is no real 'free' communication system other than talking face to face

The cost of the InReach subscription is of course more than the free user cost of the PLB communication. Who pays for the PLB communication system and maintenance? Our governments of course.

The difference is that the InReach is a two way communication device that also has emergency communication capability.
It is an active two way device, not a passive one way device like a PLB. The alternative two way device would be a satellite phone which is more bulky and costly to buy and run.

I have used my InReach all over Tasmania, the Australian outback, NZ, the UK, Sweden, Norway, France, Hong Kong and Singapore. Sure, I have spent a couple of hundred dollars for subscription over the time, but for me the value is worthwhile. I can keep in touch with family and friends when required in areas of zero phone capability, and they can see where I am by viewing the tracking online.

g


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[roysta]

I've used the InReach widely also and find it to be a very worthwhile piece of kit.
The fact you can pair your smartphone with it means you can text from anywhere, so long as you have access to the satellites.
Should you activate the PLB button you have the advantage of texting the emergency services.


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