Knees

[Davo1]

Lol, just read all the comments about walking poles and benefits and not so benefits, can relate to all of it as I have been using poles, 1 or 2 for quite a while to alleviate pressure on knees which brings me to my question.

Recently got laid up for about 6 or 7 weeks with a really dicky knee, couldn't put any weight on it for a while.
You can imagine how I started to feel towards the end of this period......

What do others do for knee pain? Stretching exercises, strengthening exercises, any you beaut rubs that work miracles, I've heard certain Turmeric capsules help with inflammation.
I'd really be interested to hear what helps your knee issues without resorting to replacement.

Cheers
Davo1

[Moondog55]

Lol, just read all the comments about walking poles and benefits and not so benefits, can relate to all of it as I have been using poles, 1 or 2 for quite a while to alleviate pressure on knees which brings me to my question.

Recently got laid up for about 6 or 7 weeks with a really dicky knee, couldn't put any weight on it for a while.
You can imagine how I started to feel towards the end of this period......

What do others do for knee pain? Stretching exercises, strengthening exercises, any you beaut rubs that work miracles, I've heard certain Turmeric capsules help with inflammation.
I'd really be interested to hear what helps your knee issues without resorting to replacement.

Cheers
Davo1

Hmmmm?
Nothing is working for me at all which is why I have major surgery in my future [ hips and knees] and why I'm not walking or skiing for a while.
Non loadbearing exercise and weight training hasn't helped me at all, but most people find it does

[Davo1]

Cheers Moondog55.......bugger, hope all is better after ops.

[MickyB]

Great question Davo. I will be following this thread with interest.
My knees struggle in the colder months, especially at the start of a walk. I've found knee braces keep the knee warm and that certainly helps. I occasionally use walking poles in steep areas to alleviate pressure on knees but in some places it's easier not to use them.

[Davo1]

Cheers Micky

[wayno]

for cartilage:

collagen hydrolysate,
fish oil or krill oil is better,
glucosamine and chondroitin,
vitamin c (calcium ascorbate), with bioflavonoids
zinc.

i could barely walk at the end of last year after a three day tramp, a month later i was going up and down mountains with no problems...

[Suz]

Yeah I get major knee pain sometimes.

When I was a teenager I had severe chronic pain and it turned out I had worn the cartilage away in my knees and it was bone on bone grinding. Solution: podiatrist > orthotics to change gait and stop bones rubbing together.

Then when I was older I was bike riding a bit and got pain again. A different pain. Turned out I had grown my outer quads too large without concomitant growth of inner quads...which in turn pulled my patellae out of position. Solutions: physio > destroyed some outer quad muscle which didn't actually fix it, but podiatrist helped out again and suggested hamstring stretches. Stretches fixed it.

In the past 5 years or so, the only pain I was getting was on long descents while hiking...the European style hiking...only carrying a day pack, but 1000mtr descents every day really really hurt. Solutions: poles (like you're already using) and going really really slowly downhill. Still got some pain but less. Knee guru physio thought it might have been my ITB (being too tight) but we didn't have time for her to show me exercises to fix it and then she disappeared of the face of the earth, so I don't know if that would've helped!

A few years back I tore 3 ligaments in my knee and blew out my joint capsule. Solutions: surgery to 1 ligament - which got loose again later cos I hiked too soon post op probably!! Other bits of knee were left to heal by themselves. And physio post op was had too. Anyhow, knee is certainly not like it was pre-injury and now never will be.

As far as supplements - I've been taking magnesium for a few months on advice from the parent, who tells me it's all the rage down the bridge club. Parent also is a big fan of that turmeric you mentioned, but I haven't got into it yet. I haven't really had much knee pain since being on the magnesium, but I also haven't had any massive, arduous descents to test it on. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesnt.

Anyhow, I guess apart from the supplements which might help universally, IME, the knee can have lots of diff probs and therefore diff solutions for each issue. I should imagine the right stretches and strengthening would help too tho.

My guess is that considering you seem to have injured it quite badly, rather than have chronic degeneration, it'd be worth seeing your GP for a diagnosis (if you have not already done so) and get a plan for a road to recovery. And/or seeing a physio (and I stress this last bit) who is GOOD WITH KNEES. At the very least, paying a pro to show you the best way to stretch and strengthen for your particular issue is worth it IMO.

Anyhow, that was my tediously long knee post!

[Quarksta]

I'm probably not as old as some of you guys, however, I had knee trouble since I was in my early 20s. The solution for me was to start running to build up the strength of all the connective tissue around my knees combined with regular stretching. When I first started, I couldn't even go a kilometre without my knees hurting so much that I had to stop. Last year I ran a marathon with no knee pain, and I no longer have any knee issues at all.

I can't say this will work for everyone, as there are a multitude of underlying causes for knee pain, but this worked for me.

[wayno]

yeah, be reasonably consistant with exercise year round, avoid taking long breaks for months without much weight bearing exercise

[GPSGuided]

Sorry to hear of the 'dicky' knee. But to know what may or may not help, one really need to know what are the issues with your 'dicky' knees? As Wayno suggests, there are supplements that may offer benefits to specific aspects of the knee, there's just no magic bullet to any knee. So tell more. In the meantime, apart from some supplements/analgesics/anti-inflammatories, an external compression bandage/straps or brace may offer physical assistance. Can only try and see what helps. Too much variability.

[Davo1]

Wayno, Quarksta and Suz, thanks for the input.
It is interesting to see what others have to say and yes the poor old knees are subject to a lot.
Of course as mentioned the pain for different people can be be from many possible causes but the thing that got me was not being able to get on the road to recovery.....off to the quack.
I am possibly blessed at this stage and hopefully can recover fully before the inevitable one day. So between the quack (pills to get me mobile, escaped mri by a day), a physio (stretching, exercises etc and a massage), a chiropractor (getting things aligned again) and a deflated hip pocket all's looking ok.
What surprised me was the mention of anti inflammatory tablets from the different professions, something I have always been against, they had the attitude using them temporarily to get some movement was better than no movement at all and it turned out they were right. Thankfully it wasn't for long.
Still not climbing mountainsides but managed a 12km flat walk last week and a few bush wanders over the past few days so on the mend.........
Thanks again for the input everyone and I for one am looking forward to getting out and about on a regular basis again.

[Davo1]

yeah, be reasonably consistant with exercise year round, avoid taking long breaks for months without much weight bearing exercise

Wayno I really think that was my undoing......

[Davo1]

Sorry to hear of the 'dicky' knee. But to know what may or may not help, one really need to know what are the issues with your 'dicky' knees? As Wayno suggests, there are supplements that may offer benefits to specific aspects of the knee, there's just no magic bullet to any knee. So tell more. In the meantime, apart from some supplements/analgesics/anti-inflammatories, an external compression bandage/straps or brace may offer physical assistance. Can only try and see what helps. Too much variability.

Yes a complex subject GPSGuided.
My episode was a culmination of many things over a period where one thing led to another etc.
Biggest mistake was as Wayno mentioned ....had a break and thought I could step right back in without consequence.....dumb move Joyce!
As you say, generally too much variability, it was more an interest in what others had to say and whether any general maintenance programmes are utilised.
I believe I have done pretty well so far as my knees have given me trouble since early youth and as I'm out of warranty I'm not really complaining, another 15years or so would be nice though and anything over that I'll claim as a bonus
Thanks GPSGuide, cheers.

[Nuts]

Have you seen a specialist, had an xray, an mri Davo? It's not really clear.

There's some recent questioning even of the surgical intervention/ cleanup by Arthroscope but I can only think it's relative to the particular issue. Helped me a lot.

I doubt alternative therapy will help much if you have loose bodies floating around in your knee.

So I had the last of my cartilage removed from Knee2 a couple of weeks back and replacement is very likely next. The advice was to try to avoid this until at least approaching 60's.. though I was a bit amused by how long the surgeon thought i'd be around, apparently they can usually replace twice and last abt 15yrs each (with luck).
I have and am trying some of these supplements, have done for several years, but they seemed to do almost nothing to alleviate the pain and loss of motion caused structural damage. Whether they have helped in any way, given the random nature of the pain, is uncertain (for me).

My surgeon was concerned, given the associated tendon and muscle changes, one knee would dislocate and my leg collapse

Meniscal tears and degenerative cartilage loss and I have never been down and out, unable to walk for more than a few days (though carrying more than a day pack has been out for some time). If you have, then I suspect there's more going on than grannies-own oil will fix?

(This situation was predicted by a medico member of the forum 5/6 yrs ago, and has played out as predicted).

[taipan821]

Currently patiently waiting for bone fragments to dissolve in my knee, fell on it quite hard.

1. consult a specialist: Most of my knee discomfort is sporting injury, so strapping the knee works a treat
2. trekking poles...helps a bunch
3. lose weight, both from pack and person

[GPSGuided]

What surprised me was the mention of anti inflammatory tablets from the different professions, something I have always been against, they had the attitude using them temporarily to get some movement was better than no movement at all and it turned out they were right. Thankfully it wasn't for long.

There's no reason to be against any legitimate treatments but to know when they are indicated and duration of use. Unless going into terminal stages where continuous use may be required, they are most useful as short courses to get oneself some mobility back, but obviously with great restraints until the joint is fully healed. Yes, some mobility is always better than immobility except at the very acute stage. Immobility allows the muscles and ligaments to atrophy, leading to an irrecoverable downward path. Don't let that happen!

As for supplements, there's few hard scientific evidence to support their use. They may offer some benefits to some (placebo or not), but the key is to do no harm (both health and the wallet) and be cognizant of the limits.

[Davo1]

Hey thanks everyone for the advice

Although the question was "what helps YOUR knees" not what I should do for mine, although everything is taken on board believe me and it's appreciated.

Maybe I phrased the question wrong...common for me.
It may have been better to put "what does everyone do for knee maintenance?" as in a preventative sense rather than a cure.

Nuts , yes I did seek out medical attention as I mentioned

GPSGuided, it all makes sense, thank you and I have no intention of allowing things to get to the stage of leading to an irrecoverable downward path....couldn't think of anything worse. If I can't get out in the bush you may as well put me in a box.

taipan821....lose weight, that's what brought this on, trying to get rid of what I gained over summer, or is that the past couple of summers without joking though, yes it's a very valid point in my case.

Once again , thanks to all.

Davo1

[GPSGuided]

What helps my knee is all of the above issues raised and the knowledge and applied sensibly at various times. By middle age, there's nothing that can reverse those irreversible wear and tears we made on ourselves. We can only protect and try to slow the progression.

[Davo1]

Thanks GPS.
Latter life is something that when I was young I never really gave much thought to even though I never had good knees way back then.
Well my attitude has changed of late brought about possibly by sheer neglect.
Now that I'm mobile again i'd like to keep it that way as much as humanly possible.

[Moondog55]

I'm going to quote my father.
" If I'd known I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself when I was younger"

[Davo1]

I'm going to quote my father.
" If I'd known I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself when I was younger"

Lol, yep

[Nuts]

I've heard certain Turmeric capsules help with inflammation. Cheers Davo1

Golden Paste- Tumeric/Olive Oil/ Pepper. Being the only two immediate family with dicky knees, I make these into ice cubes and share 75-25 with the dog..
(see above for the results to date)

[GPSGuided]

Termeric has also been claimed to resist the onset of dementia...

Apart from dementia, mechanical damages has already been done through multi-decades. There's not likely to be magic bullets but to use them sensibly. Use but don't over use. The rest are largely placebo or symptomatic relief.

[findbuddha]

Get your quads and crucially glutes/hips as strong as you can. Strength and control at the glutes/hips has a huge effect on the alignment of the knee and can make a big difference to knee pain. Keep mobile at the ankle and flexible hamstrings. A quick generic home program (without knowing an individual's specific problem):
- Stretch calves (knee straight and bent)
- Stretch hamstrings
- Foam roller or your elbow to massage quads and ITB
- Squats, deadlifts and/or lunges, with perfect hip/knee/ankle alignment and spine/pelvis posture. Build resistance up gradually! Bare minimum long term goal should be 20kg, but depending on your pack weight or other activities you do you may benefit from more resistance than this. Be consistent.

[puredingo]

I've had bad knees most of my life largely stemming from podiatry problems which coupled with hard sports and medieval training practices have left me not being able to remember what's it actually like to walk without some degree of pain.

The last couple of years I got heavily into bushwalking and was getting out a LOT...most weekends were multi's or over nighters and most arvos bashing around the scrub at home. The knees and hips were screaming out for a spell.

So for the last 8-10 months I've had off apart from surfing and I've noticed a massive difference, most of the hobbling around I was known for is gone. But alas the weathers getting cooler and I'm gazing over maps again so it looks like I'll just walk myself into submission and that'll be my lot.

So maybe the answer is do your planned walk and allow sufficient recovery time with no extra add-on walks in between and by your next mission you'll be raring to go!!

[MickyB]

I'm going to quote my father.
" If I'd known I was going to live this long I'd have taken better care of myself when I was younger"

Interesting quote Moondog. When I was younger I was always encouraged to stay healthy by keeping fit and active. I had a lot of friends who prefered to sit in front of the TV for the day or spend their weekends playing computer games. I played a lot of sport BUT sport is the reason I have knee issues. Perhaps if I wan't so active when I was younger my knees would be in better condition now.

[GPSGuided]

When I was younger I was always encouraged to stay healthy by keeping fit and active... I played a lot of sport BUT sport is the reason I have knee issues. Perhaps if I wan't so active when I was younger my knees would be in better condition now.

What they didn't tell was to be selective of the sport and be aware and avoid potential injuries. And in moderation.

[digbyg]

I am now walking much more strongly after a knee replacement, than the hobbling on a stick i had been doing for the 20 years before that. After having to walk with a stick for so long, it is a joy to be stick free and reliant on the upper leg muscles to do their job.
Knee maintenance: Build your upper leg muscles and avoid impact shock by keeping the leg bent when going down hill. ie Bounce on the thigh muscle.

[GPSGuided]

But do take care of your artificial knee. They don't regenerate and will wear with a finite life. So don't abuse it for longevity. Continued use of pole can reduce the stresses and is worth considering.

[Neo]

Something that I've learnt from doing Pilates is that most people have a bias, either left or right side. I'm left which is my 'lazy' side so I train that a bit more, is less flexible.
Also most bodies are better suited to either flexion or extension movements, I'm extension which means bending isn't good.
If I'd known that at the end of highschool it would have been good for choosing a career direction! ie not a trade and labour type that involves bending over, hence my main physical problems all the way.
(think I explained that right, is there a Physio in the house?)