Carlon's Farm for sale

[davidmorr]

Carlon's Farm in the Blue Mountains is apparently for sale. This has been a significant location for bushwalkers for probably 100 years. It would be a shame to see it changed and access possibly restricted.

First question: Does anyone have $800,000 spare that could be used to buy it? hahahahaha

Second question: Would you perhaps have $1000 spare to help buy it? It would only need 800 people to each put in $1000 - some might even put in more.

Ok, there are a lot of issues in this, such as what would happen to it after it was bought? There would be ongoing costs for rates, road maintenance, etc. There may even be costs for restoring and maintaining the buildings if it was to be made into a heritage site.

But it could also be bought with the intention of donating it to NPWS to become a part of the national park, and NPWS would deal with the ongoing costs. There is a precedent for this - think of the Blue Gum Forest in the Grose Valley saved by bushwalkers in the 1930s.

The $1000 would effectively be a donation - it may even be tax deductible.

https://www.facebook.com/caro.ryan/post ... 5861113145

[GPSGuided]

$800k? What's the size? I wonder who would be interested in buying it?

[wildwanderer]

120 acres apparently. Maybe Im just acclimatised to Sydney prices.. but that seems like a good price considering the size and location. Though I don't know what restrictions are on that land or what the upkeep is.

That said.. I'l keep it mind if I win Oz lotto.

[davidmorr]

The $1000 would effectively be a donation - it may even be tax deductible.

According to this document, land donated through the Foundation for National Parks and Wildlife can qualify for a tax deduction.
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/acquiringland/

[ribuck]

... I don't know what restrictions are on that land or what the upkeep is.

Aye, there's the rub. But wow, I'm seriously interested in this. I don't have any experience with rural land though, and need to find out a lot more.

If permission was likely to be granted to put a small eco lodge on this property, I expect it could be made viable.

[rcaffin]

Carlon's Farm in the Blue Mountains is apparently for sale. This has been a significant location for bushwalkers for probably 100 years. It would be a shame to see it changed and access possibly restricted.

Access to the Dunphy Car Park above Breakfast Ck can NOT be restricted. The Service bought the Dunphy Car park area many years ago after lowering the boom on the horse-trekking business there - they were carving out tracks through the Park and rather trashing the place. Part of the conditions of sale was that the road through Carlons to the Car Park became a public right of way.

Dunphy Car park was bought using money from the Dunphy Fund - that did cause some mumbling at the time, but it was worth it.

The origin of the name 'Dunphy Car Park' may be a conversation I had with the NPWS area manager at Blackheath at the time. I suggested it. He liked the idea. I dare say that bit was forgotten.

But it could also be bought with the intention of donating it to NPWS to become a part of the national park,

Ah, just persuade the Service to buy it. It is no longer a viable farm.

Cheers
Roger

[GPSGuided]

Where's the ad for this sale? It's not in the Domain...

[wildwanderer]

Where's the ad for this sale? It's not in the Domain...

Its on the wooden post at the front gate.... https://scontent.fmel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20369188_10155275854858145_4888275440544637818_o.jpg?oh=b694480549323773d7a26cdef3882a7e&oe=59FBA285

where would you expect it to be ?

[puredingo]

I was thinking we could do the same for the Wattyle Ridge property, now that would be a handy bit of realestate for The Nattai fraternity to get hold of. Apparently Lachlan Murdoch owns it? He's pretty flush so he might let it go for a song for song....ha, yeah right!

[ribuck]

Access to the Dunphy Car Park above Breakfast Ck can NOT be restricted.

What about the road to Galong Gate which branches off to the right after one passes through Carlons - is that also a right of way that cannot be restricted?

[rcaffin]

I think that is still PP.
Cheers
Roger

[Grabeach]

I was thinking we could do the same for the Wattyle Ridge property, now that would be a handy bit of realestate for The Nattai fraternity to get hold of. Apparently Lachlan Murdoch owns it? He's pretty flush so he might let it go for a song for song....ha, yeah right!

I'd be worried if this property came up for sale. A new owner could decide to fence all their currently unfenced land to the south.

[puredingo]

According to people on this site it is up for sale.bits a nuisance walking around the property as it is, let's hope the new owners don't make it worse.

[davidmorr]

let's hope the new owners don't make it worse.

You could be one of the new owners if there is a crowdfunding plan developed.

[tom_brennan]

The origin of the name 'Dunphy Car Park' may be a conversation I had with the NPWS area manager at Blackheath at the time.

Thankfully it's called the Dunphy Camping Area (not the Dunphy Car Park)!

[GPSGuided]

So which Lot is Carlon's Farm?

[rcaffin]

I think that map is obsolete.
DP821310 block 188 and DP 876267 block 4 are both national park.

I think Green Gully DP751657 (blocks 45 & 46) was subdivided by a line running (very) roughly horizontal through the middle of it, or something like that. In addition, maintanance of the road from the gate up top down to the camping area was taken over by the Service with a public right of way through the DP established.
For more accurate details you would need to contact Blackheath. Me, I forget.

EDIT
I may be wrong here. It looks as though ALL the green area is Park now - everything after the bridge. Could be.

Cheers
Roger

[wildwanderer]

Some people on that facebook page are advocating it should be given to the traditional owners (Gundungurra). Admirable sentiments I suppose however I was very unimpressed with what they did to Chinamans gully on Mount Solitary. (putting up no camping signs and placing barriers on the camp caves bushwalkers have been using for generations). The traditional owners are obviously not very pro bushwalking. http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=25436.

I would be concerned of the fate of the entire area (for bushwalking) if they were given control over the carlons farm land and surrounding lots. According the facebook page there is 3 lots for sale. 2 x 300 acres and 1 x 120 acres(carlons).

Note. I have nothing against the principle of land being given to traditional owners. just concerned about what they would do with this piece of land given recent history.

[rcaffin]

They are not 'admirable sentiments', they are just politically correct maunderings by the unintelligencia.

Cheers
Roger

[johnrs]

Folks
This is a very historical piece of land.
Really the official owners are the very many generations of the Carlon family.
Long predates the park, the family hosted Myles Dunphy in the 1930s.
In terms of riding, the access was down the Cox to Bimlow and other drowned villages in the Cox and Wollondily valleys.
There were thriving ecotourism businesses there by the standards of the day, and the mud house , now ruined,
was occupied and in good order until the park takeover.
The family was bitter.
Kind regards
John Smart

[GPSGuided]

So why is the Carlon family wanting out now?

[rcaffin]

The farm is no longer profitable - especially since they can no longer run their horse trekking rides through the National Park and they have been blocked from cutting yet more horse tracks through the National Park.

Cheers
Roger

[ribuck]

So which Lot is Carlon's Farm?

On the map that you posted, the 120 acres is blocks 160 and 161. It's just north of Galong Creek, and includes the 3-bedroom house. I don't know which are the additional blocks that are supposedly also for sale.

For more up-to-date property maps you can browse the Blue Mountains City Council website:
http://www.bmcc.nsw.gov.au/sustainablel ... ivemapping

[ribuck]

... the traditional owners (Gundungurra) ... I was very unimpressed with what they did to Chinamans gully on Mount Solitary. (putting up no camping signs and placing barriers on the camp caves bushwalkers have been using for generations)

Technically, it was the National Park that imposed the ban on sleeping in Chinamans Cave, not the Gundungurra people.

Similarly, it was the National Park that banned camping at Blue Gum Forest. I'm sure the donors would not have relinquished ownership of Blue Gum Forest if they had known that this would happen.

For this reason, I would prefer that Carlon's farm remain privately held, owned by a bushwalking-friendly person or organization. The difficulty is how to cover the cost of managing the property. The National Park takes taxpayer money for this purpose; a private owner must generate their own funds.

[GPSGuided]

At that location, seemed to be destined to be a hobby farm.

[johnrs]

Actually RC the horse trails precede the national park by about a hundred years,
part of the European history of the area,
see some history here
http://www.megalongcc.com.au/Heritage/Megalong1.htm
And Green Gully was built by the Carlons in 1908.
Its a heritage structure
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/herit ... ID=1170776
Quite a significant structure, now decaying in the care of the parks service
Myles Dunphy, a family friend of the Carlons ,
lobbied for Blue Mountains National which was established in 1932
The final demise of the riding business was due to a combination of factors, the alliance between the waterboard and the park service along with the wilderness declaration and the collapse of the insurance industry (HIH) in the early 2000s.
The huts up the hill were part of the original ecotourism business which also dates back to the 1930s.

Now the family is just sick of the traffic past their remaining dwellings.
Its a sad end to 150 years in the valley.
John

[rcaffin]

The final demise of the riding business was due to a combination of factors,
You missed out the fact that Carlons were cutting NEW tracks through the Park, and that other tracks they were using were being trashed.
I was there at the time, and I was discussing this with the Parks people at the time. The improvement in many tracks when the horses were stopped was swift and remarkable.

Yes, things were different 100 years ago - but so what? Things change.
Friends of mine used to come down Carlons Head on a Friday evening (train from Sydney) and spend the night on the Carlons verandah - in the 50s. Can't do that today.
Sydney Water built the Warrangamba dam and displaced all those farmers in the lower Coxs R valley too. They don't 'own' the valley anymore either. Now the pollies want to raise the dam wall so they can sell off the flood plains to developers and make lots of money.

Cheers
Roger

[kjbeath]

The final demise of the riding business was due to a combination of factors,
You missed out the fact that Carlons were cutting NEW tracks through the Park, and that other tracks they were using were being trashed.
I was there at the time, and I was discussing this with the Parks people at the time. The improvement in many tracks when the horses were stopped was swift and remarkable.

Sandstone and horses, especially shod ones, just doesn't mix.

[GPSGuided]

Yes, things were different 100 years ago - but so what? Things change.
Friends of mine used to come down Carlons Head on a Friday evening (train from Sydney) and spend the night on the Carlons verandah - in the 50s. Can't do that today.

Why? Track loss?

[rcaffin]

Ha! No friendly verandahs! The old house is enclosed in steel mesh.
Carlons Head still goes, although the descent from the rock face is kinda steep and slippery. The approach at the top ... yeah, SCRUB.

Cheers
Roger