Walks near Sydney sought

[puredingo]

I guess old Ivan put pay to hitchhiking?....shame, was once a cheap means of transportation.

[LachlanB]

The NSW government maps are equally bad.

Just to check, are you using the topographic layer of SIX Maps, or the Road Map? The Road Map is indeed very dodgy, but the topgraphic layer certainly has a grid. But it's not the default base layer that SIX Maps displays. From memory (I still can't get onto SIX Maps), the way to switch between the layers is: Click on Basemaps in the top right corner, then (right?) click on the imagery button and then select the topographic option from the list that appears. It if that doesn't work, try the spanner icon- it might be that that changes the layers.

[wildwanderer]

The NSW government maps are equally bad.

Just to check, are you using the topographic layer of SIX Maps, or the Road Map? The Road Map is indeed very dodgy, but the topgraphic layer certainly has a grid. But it's not the default base layer that SIX Maps displays. From memory (I still can't get onto SIX Maps), the way to switch between the layers is: Click on Basemaps in the top right corner, then (right?) click on the imagery button and then select the topographic option from the list that appears. It if that doesn't work, try the spanner icon- it might be that that changes the layers.

To elaborate a bit here, as navigation to the correct maps on SIX maps can be confusing if you haven't done it before.

- Click on basemaps (top right corner as Lachlan indicated)
- Click on "looking for 1943 imagery" (no idea why they put it in here)
- click on topo maps current.
- You need to zoom quite close to get the sharpest detail.

Also you can obtain a free high resolution downloadable geo pdf of the topographic map. (warning you need a fast computer to render at a reasonable speed as its a very sharp map)
http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/etopo.html. They are divided into regions the same as the printed map you can purchase in stores.

As Ribuck mentioned, openstreet maps is very good when you focus on its strengths. I suspect you may have been looking at the ordinary open street map (which as has no contours and limited detail) and not the topographic version. Easiest way to get(and use) the topo version is use a android app like orux maps as detailed earlier in the thread. Alternatively you can use a web based service. There are numerous, one such is http://www.caltopo.com/. Guide on how to use - https://douchepacker.com/2016/04/28/quick-and-dirty-guide-to-making-a-map-in-caltopo/ (thanks to off-track for this info)

Mt Solitary
Also, I just noticed a small error in the track printed on the NSW offical topos. At Ruined Castle If heading south east from katoomba or golden stairs, the official map indicates the trail takes a high route to the top of the ruined castle and then descends continuing on to Cedar Gap. The map shows a secondary track leading to the campsite that goes low but stops. In reality that lower track doesn't stop but is the main trail that connects to Cedar Gap.

You can still do the high route but the decent towards Cedar is quite rough. Most people use the high track to go to Ruined Castle and then reverse and come back down the same way. (so the trail off the castle decending towards cedar gap gets little use)

Ive marked the missing lower trail in red so you can see main route as it is on the ground.

Capture1.JPG (108.39 KiB) Viewed 28599 times

[DaveNoble]

And also - if walking out to Victoria Falls LO from Mt Victoria station - the first part of the walk is the worst bit by far - between the Station and the turn off. You need to walk to the Great Western Highway (taking the shortcut at the Victoria and Albert Guesthouse, then past the picture theatre - to the highway). Once on the highway, roadwork has stuffed things up a bit. Walk east for a bit then cross over (care needed) when you can, walk on the other side - continuing east till you get to the bridge over the railway. Don't cross that bridge - - too dangerous. Walk another 20 m and use a footbridge, then follow a footpath that leads back to the highway a little past the fire road turnoff. Cross the highway again - again with care, then walk back (west) to the turn off (signposted Victoria Falls) and then its all easy pleasant going.

[Lophophaps]

I'll have to check the maps and apply the above tweaks. I cannot recall which version of the online maps I was using. I'm not at all interested in maps on phones. The main features such as cliffs, lookouts, tracks and roads do not change much over time, and I can live with dated maps. In any case, Grose and Solitary have tracks, should not be too hard to follow with the very detailed track notes. The start from Mt Victoria sounds quite interesting.

Good, now I know how to pronounce Grose. Lophophaps is pronounced the way it looks. The full version is Lophophaps Leucogaster, a bird. I have recipes.

[ribuck]

Lophophaps is pronounced the way it looks.

Lop-hop-haps, then.

[crollsurf]

Or is it Lofo-faps

[johnw]

In any case, Grose and Solitary have tracks, should not be too hard to follow with the very detailed track notes.

True, for an experienced walker they're not but keep your eye on the ball as they do have the occasional vague bits.

[Lophophaps]

In an unknown place, even with a track I take great care. I've seen false elads where tracks change direction and punters keep going straight ahead. Vague is fine. being from Victoria I'm unfamiliar with the best way to treat what passes for BM water. is there on treatment fits ll, or does it depend on the location?

Try Lop-hop-haps. The spelling is easy if you remember Lead on, please hasten, our party has another pleasant site.

[ribuck]

The spelling is easy if you remember Lead on, please hasten, our party has another pleasant site.

I'll stick with "Let our pathetic heavy old pack harbour a pretty sheila".

[johnw]

...being from Victoria I'm unfamiliar with the best way to treat what passes for BM water. is there on treatment fits ll, or does it depend on the location?

You will get a variety of answers. Although I've been to both proposed locations many times I have only camped in the Grose. So restricting my opinion to there, there is known heavy metal contamination in the Grose River itself, from previous mining near the headwaters. Many have said that consumption over a brief visit would not be a concern. Hat Hill Creek is one of the main side creeks coming in from the south side and was previously contaminated by effluent from a sewerage treatment plant. This ceased around 2008 and opinion seems to be that water in the Grose is unlikely now affected. I'm not especially comfortable with either of those issues and prefer to seek out cleaner side creeks where possible. Those I've used in the general area without ill effect, untreated, are Pierces Creek, the convergence of Orunga Gully and Banks Gully creeks near Little Blue Gum, and Orangutan Creek a few hundred metres from Acacia Flat (Blue Gum Forest) campground. If I need to treat I currently use either Aquatabs or boiling. Or have occasionally borrowed a companion's Steripen.

[Lophophaps]

Ribuck, are you making fun of me? John, thanks, helpful. I'm aware that there is leaching from long-closed mines, and that this is better than attempting to stop the leaching. Side-creeks with no towns above appeal. Once I have a map I'll attempt to find creeks that look good on paper. I've decided on the Grose Valley, wilder, less tourists. It will be mid-week, so maybe not many people at all.

[wildwanderer]

being from Victoria I'm unfamiliar with the best way to treat what passes for BM water. is there on treatment fits ll, or does it depend on the location?

I use a water filter (Sawyer Squeeze) as its effective against giardia and cryptosporidium which are the main ones I believe are the worry in the BM due to animal and human waste. (town runoff and campers). Most streams (apart from Grose R due to the metal contam.) I'l generally filter from as long as its flowing, relatively clear and not near toiletry misadventures or flowing directly from a nearby town). Any water im using to cook or make tea with i wont bother to filter as its gets to boiling temp.

Personally I dont like using chlorine based tablet treatments like aquatabs as they dont treat crypto very well. Never heard that pesticides etc have been an issue in the Grose valley (despite some amazing gardens in blackheath ) Megalong Valley eg Cox River is where there are multiple farms etc upstream.

[tom_brennan]

You can also see the NSW topo maps at http://maps.ozultimate.com/

As far as drinking water goes, as others have said, best to avoid the Grose River. The track crosses a number of creeks that should be fine.
- Crayfish Creek
- tiny creek about 500m SE of Little Blue Gum
- Hordern Gully
- Orang Utan Gully
- the major gully opposite Fortress Creek
I drank from Crayfish Creek (though mainly for boiling), and the one past Little Blue Gum on the weekend. Will report back if I start to suffer ...

[Lophophaps]

I bought the SV BM North 1:50, and a lot is much clearer. Depending on how early I start - an unknown at this stage - it should be possible to camp at Acacia Flat. The track near Govetts Leap Brook appeals, and ends up 2-3 kilometres from Blackheath railway station. The above water notes are most helpful. I'll still treat the water but knowing that the water is of a better quality to start with assists.

[Chunder fuzz]

Depending on how early I start - an unknown at this stage - it should be possible to camp at Acacia Flat.

Not sure if they're as bad now (end of winter etc) but last time I was at Acacia Flat I could have used the mosquitoes to carry me up Govett's Leap. Nice camp spot though and the walk up to Blackheath is nice. From memory it's about 780m elevation gain from Acacia Flat campground.

[wildwanderer]

Not sure if they're as bad now (end of winter etc) but last time I was at Acacia Flat I could have used the mosquitoes to carry me up Govett's Leap.

There were a few flying insects but no mosquitoes at Acacia Flat two weeks ago. Whatever ecosystem imbalance that caused the plague that troubled the campsite previously seems to have been dealt with.

[A Jay]

Just returned from a solo trip to the Grose Valley in the Blue Mtns. From Mt Victoria station to Blackheath station. 2 days if your quick or 3 if you want to enjoy the scenery/take lots of photos.

Recommended ! Its a absolutely stunning area, big walls, blue gums and great walking along the river. Even the climb out is highly enjoyable thanks to the views, waterfalls and rain forest like canopy. Slightly overgrown track in some places but easy enough to follow. Just keep your wits about you around burra korain flat.. http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25548&start=30#p332472

Wildwanderer, you said you did the gross valley from Mt Victoria to Blackheath. I'm scoping it out myself.

It says on the WildWalks site that some sections are off-track and have no tracks, and that someone in the group needs to be an experienced nagivator. However you said that it's easy enough to follow.

Did you have a map and GPS with you? I'm looking for a short multi-day walk to go on, that I can do without navigation equipment. Is this walk suitable in that regard? This will be my first trip.

[johnw]

Slightly overgrown track in some places but easy enough to follow

Wildwanderer, you said you did the gross valley from Mt Victoria to Blackheath. I'm scoping it out myself.

It says on the WildWalks site that some sections are off-track and have no tracks, and that someone in the group needs to be an experienced nagivator. However you said that it's easy enough to follow.

A Jay, you should be fine without a GPS. I agree with wildwanderer's comment about the state of the Grose Valley track and I made similar observations earlier in this thread. I just had a look at the "off track" comment etc on WildWalks and it has left me scratching my head. Matt's track notes on that site are usually pretty accurate so I'm not sure what it's referring to in this instance. Based on my own experience I can't agree. Yes, it is narrow and slightly overgrown at times, with some risk of following a false lead e.g. on a bend. But unlikely you would get very far before realising the error. It's a regularly walked track and not hard to follow. I was there a couple of weeks ago downstream of Pierces Pass and nothing had changed navigation-wise since my previous visit in April. Probably 12-18 months since I've been anywhere upstream of Pierces but I can't imagine much has changed. Maybe the odd recent tree fall to negotiate. All that said I always take a topo map on every trip so I know where I am, plus a compass; and it makes it more enjoyable if you can identify the features encountered using the map. If you have the opportunity maybe take a short day trip into the valley to get an idea of the track. Then you can be more confident of what to expect before your multi-day trip.

[A Jay]

Slightly overgrown track in some places but easy enough to follow

Wildwanderer, you said you did the gross valley from Mt Victoria to Blackheath. I'm scoping it out myself.

It says on the WildWalks site that some sections are off-track and have no tracks, and that someone in the group needs to be an experienced nagivator. However you said that it's easy enough to follow.

A Jay, you should be fine without a GPS. I agree with wildwanderer's comment about the state of the Grose Valley track and I made similar observations earlier in this thread. I just had a look at the "off track" comment etc on WildWalks and it has left me scratching my head. Matt's track notes on that site are usually pretty accurate so I'm not sure what it's referring to in this instance. Based on my own experience I can't agree. Yes, it is narrow and slightly overgrown at times, with some risk of following a false lead e.g. on a bend. But unlikely you would get very far before realising the error. It's a regularly walked track and not hard to follow. I was there a couple of weeks ago downstream of Pierces Pass and nothing had changed navigation-wise since my previous visit in April. Probably 12-18 months since I've been anywhere upstream of Pierces but I can't imagine much has changed. Maybe the odd recent tree fall to negotiate. All that said I always take a topo map on every trip so I know where I am, plus a compass; and it makes it more enjoyable if you can identify the features encountered using the map. If you have the opportunity maybe take a short day trip into the valley to get an idea of the track. Then you can be more confident of what to expect before your multi-day trip.

Thank you very much! I'm not very fit, I can cover about 20 km in a day on moderate terrain, about 10 km on hard terrain. The grose valley is grade 5.

I do live in Newcastle, and would be travelling there by train, a big round trip. So I'd be looking at committing to at least one overnighter.

One thing I've been wondering about multi-day hiking around Australia, is about spending the night in our bush, location-wise. For a long trail like this, I guess there are designated camping spots at long intervals. I see that in National Parks and things there are these regulations about not being allowed to camp in them. If you're trekking in the Blue Mountains and you're not making it to a designated camping spot, do people set up somewhere along the trail? I'm also using a hammock, got a lightweight hammock and a tarp.

[A Jay]

One more question. How much water should I be carrying in the Grose Valley? I have a lifestraw filter so I can use basically any creek. And are the camping spots near water source?

EDIT: I looked up the maps of Grosse Valley and see that from Mt Victoria Station, the first camp is 9km, then the second is another 8km. Then to Blackheath Station is another 10km. So all those distances are manageable for me.

I also see there lots of rivers and creeks to filter water along the trail, so I doubt I'd have to carry more than half a litre of water at a time.

While I can't afford a map and compass right now, I did write down four pages of notes with directions, based off the WildWalks maps and google maps. I think I'd go tomorrow.

[davidf]

Another easier walk is Blackheath-Perrys Lookdown-Blue Gum-track to evans look out-Grand Canyon-Blackheath. All sign posted. Take a map so you can figure where you are and the time you are making. If you are going from Newy, and I used to from the gong, go up in the evening, walk the road to the trail head at night. Road bashing on a hot day sucks and it also means you get on to the good stuff first thing with a head start.

[puredingo]

Either try and get away with not buying a train ticket or forgo a couple of coffees but whatever you do get yourself a map and compass before heading out. This is essential kit and should not be overlooked.

[davidf]

Totally agree with dingo and take the time on the easy tracked walking to use it then when *&%$#! hits the fan you can use it. Getting back on track down there is not that hard, and a few hours of practise will put you ion good sted

[johnw]

Yes 100% agree with puredingo and davidf. Well maybe not the bit about not buying a train ticket, but definitely skip the coffee if it helps you buy a map. I was trying to allude to the importance of map and compass above but should have been more blunt - they are mandatory. I actually saw a serviceable looking compass in K Mart yesterday for $4.

A lot of the side creeks you see on the map are dry/ephemeral streams. Don't expect all of them to have water and the valley is as dry as I have ever seen it due to lack of rain. Re-read this thread for a few better/more reliable options - you will get wet feet accessing some of them. You will often be walking next the Grose River so it's no great effort to get water from there, but my advice is to treat it. On my recent trip I drank untreated water from the Banks/Oronga Gully side creek plus we boiled water from the Grose for dinner etc.

[Lophophaps]

Drought? Good grief, winter is not so long ago and the ski resorts are still operating. I'm attempting to plan my days and have the following. Water from Mt Vic, and maybe from Victoria Falls lookout. I have been unable to determine if there's water at the latter. Can be drunk untreated but will treat Pierces Creek, Oronga Gully, Orun Utan Gully. Fallback on the Grose but treat. Water at the top at the BM Heritage Centre. The first day to Acacia Flat is downhill and not too far, and the second day is shorter with upness, 640 metres from Junction Rock, steeper at the end.

[davidf]

There is very much a drought. In the 6 months I have been in Lithgow 1 day of rain and 2 sleet/snow storms. Farmers are hand feeding. But there is water in the Grose, just put some iodine in it. The mine leeching stuff is true but you wont grow an extra head or arm from a couple of litres. Also a tip would be to carry more water than you think walking out. Going you head to water out it can be the Great Western Highway. From now on it can get hot. BTW the snakes are out and cranky.

[Lophophaps]

David, wow, winter is missing! I always carry more water than I think will be needed, and on an overnight walk this is not too hard. Snakes may make a hammock more appealing. Unless snakes climb trees.

[johnw]

...will treat...Oronga Gully...

I got my drinking water from there the other weekend. The flow has dramatically reduced since April but was still viable. You have to cross the Grose to access it (near Little Blue Gum on the map). I walked maybe 30 metres upstream to where the water was flowing fast over some rocks. Filled my 6 litre STS bladder and 2 x 1 litre Source flexible/flat bottles. Another creek I noticed flowing, although I have never used it, is Hordern Gully. Unsure of quality; it originates near the road to Perrys Lookdown and crosses that track at one point.

Day 1 we did have an encounter with a black snake along the river, but he was happy to leave us alone and calmly slither into the bush as we watched. My mental snake alarm went on for the rest of the trip.

[Lophophaps]

I finally found Little Blue Gum in a book; the SV 1:50 BM Noth does not have Little Blue Gum marked. Is the Grose crossing at Oronga wet? Oronga is a possible top-up, as I intend to get most water on the afternoon of day one at Orang Tung Gully.