Safe/Unsafe Drinking Water

[BigBenny]

Hello,

I am new to bush walking and hiking and want to get into thru-hiking, camping, and outdoors stuff in general.

As I want to get it to camping I've been wanting to get a water filter (ideally a purifier, such as the Sawyer gravity fed water purifier[1], MSR Guardian [2], or Grayl[3]). From what I've researched, in general, most filters/purifiers are only effective against protozoa, bacteria, and viruses and not really against heavy metals, pesticides, and other chemicals. Most filters/purifiers that claim to work against such use Activated Carbon, but I've read criticisms saying that the process is too short/quick and therefore they are ineffective. Also I have read that Granulated Activated Carbon does not work for a lot of things like arsenic. I was thinking that using a filter/purifier should hopefully be enough.

I have gone on small bush walks, such as parts of the Great Northern Walk. I noticed that there was an are signs warning that the water is not suitable for swimming or drinking and that doing so has resulted in deaths. I also noted there is an area where the government has built ponds to treat the water and it states there's petrochemicals in it and it's not safe for drinking. Walking around there it looks like they set it up so storm water from pipes flows into some ponds, and they let nature clean it up. This got me reevaluating my earlier thoughts about streams being relatively clean.

I've also read of various areas being contaminated from old mines, so that they contain high levels of arsenic or similar.

Without careful research of the areas you'll go camping in, it seems (IMO) possible that the water sources (little streams etc) could be polluted from the government doing things like above, or from factories, farms (pesticides), or (old) mines, etc., which may be out of site and out of mind from the hiker/camper. It seems boiling or even distilling won't help if the contaminants can remain in the water.

Is there a map that shows known polluted/unsafe water sources, such as where there is farm/industrial run-off, or old mines etc.?

How do I find out if the streams in an area will be free of chemical pollutants?

Is the only choice to carry in all the water you will need for drinking and forget about trying to collect it on the trek?

Am I being overly paranoid?

[1] https://sawyer.com/products/sawyer-comp ... er-system/
[2] http://guardianpurifier.com/
[3] https://www.thegrayl.com

[ribuck]

A good strategy is to collect water from small side-streams that have a bush catchment.

[Xplora]

You can buy a Total Dissolved Solids meter which is pretty small and that will tell you the level of contamination for most things other than virus, bacteria and protozoa. MSR filters will take care of those things. Treat all water you drink in the bush as contaminated and you will never have a problem if you treat the water. If TDS is above 500 then it is not considered safe in the USA but I think it is 1000ppm in Australia. We must have a better standard of pollution. Drinking from a side stream with a dead pig upstream of your source is likely to give you the runs. People can do what they want with their own bodies but you have to decide what is best for your own. I think your question is very valid. Research your walk and ask questions if you need.

[wildwanderer]

If its for Australia then a filter at 0.1 micron is all you really need. That will filter out all protozoa like giardia and cryptosporidium. (comes from animal/human waste and is the most common issue) and all bacteria like ecoli etc. So a filter like Sawyer squeeze at a absolute 0.1 micron works well.

Personally I dont use purification tabs as they dont work very effectively against cryptosporidium.

If your traveling overseas to a less developed country then their is potential for viruses to be in the supply. In which case you need a filter of 0.02 micron like the MSR guardian. Or a 0.1 filter and purification tabs. In Australia virus's are not a concern. Purification tabs work well against viruses.

There is also the ultraviolet light water disinfection devices like the steripen. However in practice these dont work effectively unless you have clear water. and they rely on batteries etc.

No filter/purifier will effectively remove dissolved metal pollution / chemicals from the water. Though those with a active carbon element (like the MSR guardian) may stop a minimal amount of those containments. If your worried about metal / chemicals contamination in a area you want to walk just ask on the forum. Generally someone will know. In practice its not a big deal/easily avoided.

As ribuck said, small side streams that dont have a catchment that features towns or campsites are a good choice to get water from. I'l always filter regardless but many people are quite happy to drink unfiltered if they are confident the catchment is uncontaminated.

You can also boil, which will kill all virus, bacteria and protozoa. But wont remove metal/chemical contamination.

Another good tip - wash your hands ! cause its a easy vector for nastys to reach your mouth/nose. Carry anti bacterial gel and use after filtering, before meals and after using the toilet.

[BigBenny]

Thanks for all the replies, info, and tips.

I will be sure to clean my hands and utensils etc. and to also not get soap into the water ways.

I guess my main concern is chemicals and metals, that even if I used a really good filter that can filter viruses and/or boiled it, the water could still be unsafe.

If TDS is above 500 then it is not considered safe in the USA but I think it is 1000ppm in Australia. We must have a better standard of pollution.

"Better standard of pollution" <-- haha, good one, I like your humour.
That's interested regardding the TDS, however IIUC the TDS meter won't tell me if there's chemicals in the water, just how clear/murky it is. Actually re-reading your comment, will the TDS show if there's metals and other chemicals in the water? If the TDS came back < 1000 or < 500 would that mean there's very little metals/chemicals in it, or is it still unknown as it depends on what they are?

A good strategy is to collect water from small side-streams that have a bush catchment.

As I'm new I'm not sure I 100% understand what you mean by this. Is a side-stream a stream that forks off a bigger stream? If the bigger stream was contaminated, wouldn't the smaller one also be contaminated... I'm not sure I understand the terminology.

If your worried about metal / chemicals contamination in a area you want to walk just ask on the forum. Generally someone will know. In practice its not a big deal/easily avoided.

I think this is one thing I'll have to do, in addition to trying my best to research the area, or playing it safe and carrying enough fresh water in that I don't need to depend on finding water and attempting to make it safe. For big trips like through hiking though this may not be possible, or would require logistics like re-supplies or seeding the route with stashes of clean water.

I think it would be beneficial to all if the community could maintain a map, like a Google Maps Overlay, that shows the water ways that are known to be contaminated with metals and/or chemicals, and optionally those known to have biological hazards like Liver Fluke and the like. Does such a thing exist already?

[wildwanderer]

Is a side-stream a stream that forks off a bigger stream? If the bigger stream was contaminated, wouldn't the smaller one also be contaminated... I'm not sure I understand the terminology.

When we say side stream we mean a stream that flows into the larger stream. The side streams water is running downhill and will not be contaminated by the larger stream.

In the below picture by reading the contours it shows the side stream is uphill of and flowing into the main stream. The little arrows show the direction of the water flow.

Ive also shown the general catchment area of the side stream (water trickles down through the soil of the catchment and into the side stream). This may may not be that precise and the catchment is probably a bit larger but you get the general idea. Catchments can extend quite far above the creek.

[Xplora]

will the TDS show if there's metals and other chemicals in the water? If the TDS came back < 1000 or < 500 would that mean there's very little metals/chemicals in it, or is it still unknown as it depends on what they are?

You can google TDS and find out everything pretty easy, much easier than me writing it here but short answer is yes. It is not just about how murky the water is with dirt. De-mineralised water you buy at Bunnings (used for wet batteries) has a TDS of 7. A TDS meter will not tell you what is in the water. It simply measures the electrical conductivity of the water which relates to the number of cations and anions suspended. Every chemical molecule has both and every element has one or the other. Have a read of this for starters
http://www.toxicwatersolution.com/Water ... olids-TDS/

[Mark F]

I have always followed the system of treating (Steripen) drinking water that flows from farmland, near/past campsites or has a track/road crossing above the extraction point. If there are a couple of options such as at a creek junction choosing the source with the smaller catchment. Cooking water doesn't get treated as it will be boiled. You have to be a bit careful here as if you use water to rehydrate powdered milk it needs to come from your drinking water supply unless you plan to boil it.

This means that you need separate containers to keep your cooking and drinking water separate.

[BigBenny]

You can google TDS and find out everything pretty easy, much easier than me writing it here but short answer is yes. It is not just about how murky the water is with dirt. De-mineralised water you buy at Bunnings (used for wet batteries) has a TDS of 7. A TDS meter will not tell you what is in the water. It simply measures the electrical conductivity of the water which relates to the number of cations and anions suspended. Every chemical molecule has both and every element has one or the other. Have a read of this for starters
http://www.toxicwatersolution.com/Water ... olids-TDS/

Thanks, you're right I should have googled more and done my own research. This seems very useful gadget to get an indicator of how safe a water source is and measure the the quality of the treated water.

[BigBenny]

Thanks all for the info.

When we say side stream we mean a stream that flows into the larger stream. The side streams water is running downhill and will not be contaminated by the larger stream.

In the below picture by reading the contours it shows the side stream is uphill of and flowing into the main stream. The little arrows show the direction of the water flow.

Ive also shown the general catchment area of the side stream (water trickles down through the soil of the catchment and into the side stream). This may may not be that precise and the catchment is probably a bit larger but you get the general idea. Catchments can extend quite far above the creek.

example1.JPG

Thanks this makes sense now.

From the information in this thread I feel my questions are answered. To summarise: -

* Collect water from side-streams and the like
* The water can be measured with a TDS meter which will indicate if metals and salts etc. are in it.
* Research the area
* Ask on the forum about the area
* No collaborative map documenting contaminated sources seems to exist

There are other tips such as washing hands and utensils, and if not treating cooking water because it will be boiled you'll need separate containers.

Thanks all for the help.

[Neo]

I have a Camelbak UV bottle. Finally used it recently on river water. Was great:

UV pros (mine & Steripen):
Takes about 60 seconds, not up to 2hrs
Also kills viruses*
Quick and easy
Camelbak comes with a 750ml bottle & spare plain cap
Use as drink bottle & hot water bottle
Is rechargeable
60 cycles of 750ml
Does not upset natural gut flora!

Cons:
Can get broken
Does not treat bottle threads
Not as light as chemicals

(always carry a secondary purification method in your First Aid kit)

Compare the weight and treatment features with pump filter and drip systems. Glad I kept this one now. Only paid $125, think it was forgotten on the shelf
I also have their additional pre-filter cap, unused to date.

* UV light disrupts the DNA of the bugs so they can't multiply in your stomach, they may however reconfigure if left in the light for a few days.

[Hughmac]

My rule of thumb is if the water drains from an area of human habitation it probably isn't safe, anything else is fine. Has served me well for thirty years.

[kjbeath]

My rule of thumb is if the water drains from an area of human habitation it probably isn't safe, anything else is fine. Has served me well for thirty years.

That is very much my attitude. I'm careful around campsites and huts because people do do the wrong thing, but once there is only scrub upstream it should be safe.

One guy in America checked a lot of their wilderness areas and found that the water was better than the drinking water. His opinion is that gastro while bushwalking results from toilets through lack of proper hygiene and transference through flies.

[Gadgetgeek]

I've walked in parts of the rocky mountains where there are unpredictable, fully natural releases of hydrogen sulfide. You will smell rotten eggs with one breath, smell nothing with the next, and will be unconscious and not breathing with the third.

At some stage you have to think about what you are likely to be harmed by (in that case rock fall) or waterborne bugs, and not go buying trouble. Obviously you do need to know these things as things like cyano-bacteria can really mess up your day, and yeah petro-chems are not great. But on balance is sucking city air any better?

[Mark F]

One guy in America checked a lot of their wilderness areas and found that the water was better than the drinking water. His opinion is that gastro while bushwalking results from toilets through lack of proper hygiene and transference through flies.

Agree totally. No detailed evidence but plenty of well experienced people put personal hygiene issues (toileting, food preparation, cleanliness of plates utensils etc) way ahead of contaminated water as the source tummy bugs.

[tom_brennan]

When I started bushwalking seriously, I used to carry a water filter and used it all the time.

Not sure why I changed, but after a few years I just stopped bothering.

For day walks I'll generally just carry enough water for the day. For overnight walks, I'll take the water from catchments without human habitation in them. I wouldn't normally filter or boil this. I avoid larger creeks and rivers such as the Grose and Coxs, as there are known issues with them. But I'd drink the Colo now, even though there is farmland a long way up in the catchment. Spend some time looking at catchments on a map to work out where to collect.

Not that this is not risk free as Australian animals can act as carriers of Giardia. But I know plenty of people who've never had a problem, so anecdotally, the risk is low.

[GPSGuided]

Infection is always a probability.

[rcaffin]

Most problems can be avoided with hygiene: WASH hands!
Anything downstream from urban areas or industrial areas is VERY suspect - avoid it.
Anything downstream from farming areas or mining areas is also suspect.
Very popular camping areas usually have poo everywhere: avoid the water.

Small creeks with 'virgin' catchments are usually OK.
If the water is very clear that is good. If it is cloudy ... um. If it looks dirty - erk.
A Steripen is very reliable in dealing with all bugs and wogs. It can help to filter out the bigger lumps first (handkerchief).
Tannin-loaded water is NOT harmful: just add milk and sugar.

Yes, some rivers are doubtful: Grose, Coxs, White River, etc. Use side creeks. But some of the older warnings are really due to novice campers not washing their hands.

Cheers
Roger

[BigBenny]

Thanks for all the tips on treating water and hygiene. These are good points. My main concern is about hazards that in-field treatments cannot cope with like heavy metals, chemicals, etc. and how to avoid or cope with that.

Researching TDS Meters I found this from a site that sells water filters, I've copied two quotes: -

https://www.hydroviv.com/blogs/water-sm ... asurements

What Does a TDS Meter Not Measure?

Because TDS is an aggregate measure of charged compounds in water, uncharged things like motor oil, gasoline, many pharmaceuticals, and pesticides do not contribute to a TDS measurement. For example, the glass on the left in this article's header image contains deionized water with Malathion (an organophosphate pesticide) dissolved into it at 100 times higher concentration than allowed by the EPA for drinking water, and the TDS probe reads 000.

A TDS meter is not sensitive enough to measure toxic levels of lead, chromium-6 or arsenic, even if they are present in a sample. This is because the reading displayed on an inexpensive TDS meter is in parts per million, while lead chromium-6, and arsenic are toxic at part per billion concentrations (1000 times lower). Using a TDS meter to measure ppb lead concentrations in tap water is like trying to use a car’s odometer to measure a child's growth spurt…. It's the wrong tool. For example, the water sample shown on the right hand side of this article's header image has lead concentrations 100x the EPA limit, and the TDS reading teetered between 000 and 001.
To reiterate: Meaningful lead and arsenic measurements cannot be made using a TDS meter (or any other handheld device). They must be measured by trained staff in analytical laboratories that use much more sophisticated scientific equipment.

These quotes make it seem that measuring a water source with a TDS would not be accurate enough to determine if it was poisonous, and from what I understand filtering, UV, and/or chemical treatment would not be enough to remove the poison. Depending on the boiling point of the contaminants, and the setup of a distillery, they may not be removed and remain in the collected water. I think that reverse osmosis would work reliably, but then I haven't gone looking for scenarios it would fail in. I'm coming to the conclusion that there is no universal fool proof method, there will be corner cases where poisons can go undetected and remain in the drinking liquid.

From the advice I received in this thread it seems that if you take the water from a side stream bush catchment it should be OK.

My original concern is that even if the catchment is away from human, farming, and industrial settlement, in the past there may have been a mine, and water with heavy metals contaminating the stream. If I don't do enough research I may not know about the old mine.

It also seems that my fears are probably over-stated as lots of people collected and drink water and some don't even treat it for bacteria and/or viruses and other biological contaminants. So despite there being corner cases where poisons can go undetected and/or not removed, in reality it probably doesn't happen and therefore doesn't matter. The risk is probably minimal.

Thank you all for your advice and tips.

[GPSGuided]

Don't forget, our human body have evolved and survived on wild water for millions of years. We can get sick and reduce our life expectancy, but mostly will do fine.

[puredingo]

Of course it goes without saying that if you get into trouble out there gulp that dirty water down till your hearts content.

often new walkers may over estimate their abilities/fitness, under estimate their water supplies and need for, or just get caught out in unseasonalby viscious heat. If this should happen and your only option is to drink the suss stuff get it into you and deal with the consequences later...Personally I've never had any issues from water I wouldn't even wash a dog in so I'm knocking on wood LOUDLY right now.

[tom_brennan]

My original concern is that even if the catchment is away from human, farming, and industrial settlement, in the past there may have been a mine, and water with heavy metals contaminating the stream. If I don't do enough research I may not know about the old mine.

That's a possibility, but the risk is pretty low. There's not that many of them around, and they tend to be fairly well known. And you'd have to be unlucky to find one where you were drinking so much that it was causing an issue - though it's obviously best to steer clear of heavy metals.

[Gadgetgeek]

Keep in mind that geology changes. So heavy metal contamination could just appear, and disappear. the reality is that for most adults, the levels have to get pretty bad before it would do much to you.

[GPSGuided]

Yes. And problems with heavy metal tends to be cumulative for the likely quantities we encounter in the wild. So another focus is to bushwalk in a variety of locations and not stay in one place and consume the same water source.

[Flipper Hands]

You can buy a Total Dissolved Solids meter which is pretty small and that will tell you the level of contamination for most things other than virus, bacteria and protozoa. MSR filters will take care of those things. Treat all water you drink in the bush as contaminated and you will never have a problem if you treat the water. If TDS is above 500 then it is not considered safe in the USA but I think it is 1000ppm in Australia. We must have a better standard of pollution. Drinking from a side stream with a dead pig upstream of your source is likely to give you the runs. People can do what they want with their own bodies but you have to decide what is best for your own. I think your question is very valid. Research your walk and ask questions if you need.

Thank you for this, I love it when I learn something new. TDS meter ordered.

[GPSGuided]

Seriously, one would depend on a TDS meter (another gadget to carry) to decide on drinkability? Why not just treat or filter as SOP and be done with it?

[johnf]

Am I being overly paranoid?

Yes I think so. I mean follow the advice here about filtering water if you are not confident of the source, but all the heavy metal stuff...
Seriously how much of this water are you planning to drink?
I don't think you could find a water source that would be dangerous to drink (from heavy metal contamination) a few liters if you tried. Oh well maybe near a uranium source, but otherwise the concentration would surely be too low to have any effect from drinking a liter or two. Otherwise every animal in the area that is drinking it all their lives would have two heads.

[puredingo]

So that's what happened in Helensburgh.....

[clarence]

I think the talk about heavy metals is highly over-rated. To be carrying a TDS meter and the like is probably over the top in 99% of cases.

Natural drinking water and bore water will always have some trace amount of dissolved elements AND bacteria/biological stuff in it. In the majority of overnight bushwalking areas in NSW (Blue Mountains, Nattai, Budawangs, Snowy Mts etc), if the catchment is undeveloped (AND upstream of huts, roads and popular camping areas), there will be no major issue with drinking water as you find it, provided it is flowing and clear.

There are a few major DO NOT DRINK rivers, which are fairly well known (Kedumba, Coxs, Nattai etc) as listed above.

A lot of the urban-fringe/coastal parks (Royal, Kuringai etc) have a lot more development and use generally, so are harder for getting good water. In these cases potable water will usually only be found in small catchments away from huts, tracks, roads etc.

Selecting the water from the correct location is the key.

I have a good quality Katadyn filter, which I NEVER take walking. On the very rare occasion water is suspect (mainly if it is obtained from a very slow flowing source) I will put in a purifying tablet. This is probably a few litres per hundred out of the water I collect/drink in the outdoors.

Over 20 plus years I have consumed water collected from some weird and wonderful places, and was only sick once (collecting water from the creek below Diamantina Hut - below the road!) in Victoria.

Also note, that in a lot of cases, once you get far enough downstream from roads, towns etc water will generally "self purify". Eg the upper Shoalhaven catchment is full of farms and settlement, but in the gorge which is 50km downstream from Braidwood, it is usually very good to drink.

Clarence

[Xplora]

Treatment of water or carrying a TDS meter is all a personal choice and if it concerns you then you can take whatever precautions you see fit. The fact is nobody can tell you any drinking water is safe and all water in the Blue Mtns I treat as suspect. There are just too many people there now. The runoff from Springwood Creek and Wentworth creek into the Grose is interesting to watch after heavy rain. Some people can drink from the Cox's river with no ill effect and others can't. Do what you want but don't tell others it is safe to do what you do.