Gundungura Guide Book

[Allchin09]

Hey,

Does anyone know where I could possibly get a copy of the Sydney Uni Rover Crew's Gundungurra Guide book that was published along with their Gundungurra map?

I've had a look at the book at the State Library and found it to be really interesting! I know that it would be long out of print, but if anyone knows of any copies still floating about, or has contact with the people who put it together, I would be really interested to know.

[juxtaposer]

Only printed once, very rare and only to be found in private collections I would imagine. The group that put it together is long since defunct. You might find a copy eventually, but in the short term you could photocopy the one in the State Library.

[kanangra]

I have a copy. Provided it wasn't in breach of copyright I would be prepared to run you off a copy. Very interesting book of the type that just aren't produced any more.

K.

[Allchin09]

That's my main issue, I believe that it would still be in copyright, but how do you get permission from SURC if they no longer exist! Maybe if I could track down someone that was part of the group who helped write so of the book, then I'd be able to ask them.

Kanangra - If you could possibly have a quick flick through the book when if you get the chance and let me know who the writers were, then I can go about trying to track them down.

[Mark F]

There are special arrangements for out of print material for educational purposes and fair dealing. I also have a copy you could examine if you are in Canberra. Also consider the 10% rule if you are mainly interested in a particular area.

From Flinders Uni

"Out of print

A book is out of print if you can confirm that the book is no longer in production, in print or available for purchase. To find out if a book is out of print, contact the supplier, publisher or bookseller. If the book is confirmed as out of print, it can then be copied in full or part for educational purposes or under fair dealing. You must be sure to make the proper acknowledgements to the author etc. and you must keep records of the advice you received from booksellers and publishers."

[Allchin09]

Mark F - Thanks for the info about out of print books, I didn't know that they could be copied for certain purposes. That makes things easier.
Thanks for the offer, but I live in Sydney and the drive to Canberra would be a little far for my liking.

[kanangra]

I've just checked and mine is itself a copy of the first edition, 1970. It has the name of Colin Gliddon from YMCA Ramblers on the title page. I did a few walks with them in the 1970's. Colin used to live at Katoomba. I haven't seen him in years. It says:

"Compiled and published by the Sydney University Rover Crew, Box 50 The Union, University of Sydney, Sydney 2006.

Distributed by Paddy Pallin Pty. Ltd. 109A Bathurst Street, Sydney, 2000.

Printed by Allans Pty. Ltd. 70 Mary St. Sydney, 2000."

I did notice that no claim of copyright is asserted in the book itself?

There is a postscript by P.G. , D.W. , and G. J. M.

"Since 1963 'Gundungra' has led a checkered career. By 1966 it was ready for publication but its bulk exceeded our resources. re-writing and pruning ensued but again publication problems proved insurmountable. But now finally it is in print.""

Thinking about it the Gundungra map is still in print so whoever holds the rights to that maybe able to grant permission for the book to be copied?

And doesn't copyright revert to the public domain after 50 years? Will be up in 2020.

K.

[Allchin09]

Kanangra - Thanks for the info, I will see where that takes me. As for copyright, it can get pretty complicated. I think that some works are under copyright until 70 years after the death of the author!

The Gundungura map is still in print! Where?!

[DaveNoble]

I believe the text of the Gundungura Guide was largely the work of Athol Abrahams. He was also very active in SUBW at the time. He was a student of geography. This page has an email address for him -

http://www.geog.buffalo.edu/people/faculty.shtml

(scroll down to the Emeritus Professors) - it looks like his web page is no longer active, and I heard a fair while back that he has had health issues (I think he was suffering from Parkinson's disease). Other old SUBW walkers like Wyn Jones used to keep in touch with him - perhaps they still do. And Wyn is a good friend of Aine Gliddon and Aine's husband - Col Gliddon - all three are still very active walkers. Perhaps Col will want his guide back!. They all live in the Blue Mts. Another Blue Mts resident and ex SUBW and SURC member is Tim Herborn. I believe he did have a spare copy or two (he was able to give a copy to a SURC walker that had worked on the map, but was not around when the guide was published, which was many years later)

Back when we had SUBW anniversaries - in 1996 and 2006, I can remember contacting people such as Athol, who were also in SURC, and they mentioned that SURC also had old log books with records and notes of many of their activities back in that period. No one seems to know where they have gone.

Another ex SURC member was Rick Jamieson, who passed away recently after a long career in scouting.

You may, with difficulty, be able to pick up a copy of the Gundungura Guide - second hand. I know a friend of mine did a year or so ago. I'm not sure if he got if from eBay or Chessler Books (http://www.chesslerbooks.com) - which specialises in that sort of thing. I think the library at Sydney Uni (Fisher Library - Rare Book section) had a copy. Perhaps there is one in UNSW library?)

I have an old copy - well worn, that I bought in Paddy Pallins when they were in print.

Dave

[Allchin09]

Dave - Hopefully I should be able to track someone down that you listed, thanks. Shame the SURC records can't be found, it would be great to have a read through. I know some of the walks that Athol did were pretty interesting.

I'm surprised to hear your friend got a copy second hand, I'll have to keep my eye out. I had a look on Chessler books with no luck however. I did however have a quick search of Amazon, and apparently there are some copies but they are around $120 + postage which is a little more that what I would like to pay...

A quick search of the USYD library didn't find anything (through that doesn't mean it isn't in there, I might have to go in in person) and I know that UNSW library doesn't have a copy.

I wonder if someone from Paddy Pallin has kept a copy of all the old maps and books that they have sold over the years? It would be quite a collection.

[DaveNoble]

I'm surprised to hear your friend got a copy second hand, I'll have to keep my eye out. I had a look on Chessler books with no luck however. I did however have a quick search of Amazon, and apparently there are some copies but they are around $120 + postage which is a little more that what I would like to pay...

Yes - I think thats the sort of money my friend had to pay for the copy he bought. The cheapest way would be a deceased estate sale of a bushwalker......

Dave

[Mark F]

At one stage (1980's) Paddy's had reproduction rights for a few of the old sketch maps. It may be worth checking out as modern reproduction methods would make printing a copy or two quite feasible.

[Allchin09]

That's crazy! I guess I probably better just making a copy of one that I can get my hands on for a few hours. Would anyone be willing to let me borrow theirs?

Mark F - I'll have to chase that up when I get the chance. I know my local Paddy Pallin still sells the Dunphy Gangerang and Kowmung sketch maps, but I have a feeling that they source them from the Colong Foundation, as they they have their name on the maps, and they are the only two maps that the Foundation currently sell.

[scout+]

I was given a copy of that book for my 40th birthday in 1995,did quite a bit of walking based on tracknotes provided however a few inaccuracies did pop up. still a valuable resource and I was surprised at the $120 pricetag, I gave mine to another southern bluemountains fanatic, oh well easy come easy go. I wonder what my mint copy of "With Swag and Billy"printed circa 1905 that I also handed on would fetch.I think from memory a few of the Gundungra walks utilized the Bindook Highlands map, another great resource if you can get hold of a copy.
Best wishes to all the historians out there!

[kanangra]

I thought I had a copy of the Bindook map but can't put my hand on it? Not sure what happened to it. anybody able to help me out at all?

K.

[geford]

Only one version was published (in 1970) of our Gundungura guide booklet. Distributed by Paddy Pallin, it soon sold out. This year (2017), I have scanned a copy to be shared on Public Domain. (Nil copyright restrictions.) I've also scanned my (SURC) Gundungura Map for sharing, because of interest, even if only historical! Drawn 1961, for sale 1962 (1st edition classic). There were more than forty uni students in 1960s contributing to the SURC Gundungura Project. Geford.

[kanangra]

Gee those must have been the days? I doubt you'd get 40 uni students interested in that area now. So much for all the developments in wilderness conservation?

K

[Mark F]

The Gundungura book shows up in Trove http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/21873307?q=gundungura&c=book&versionId=26338445 with copies in The State Library of NSW, National Library and Sydney University LIbrary

The Gundungura map shows up in Trove http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/38611067?q&versionId=51197946 listing Paddy Pallin Pty Ltd as the publisher. There is a copy in the State Library of NSW call no M M4 812.26/1962/1.

Kanangra - I still have my copy of the Gundungura book that I would be willing to lend to you. There is a corrigenda that aligns the text with the 4th edition of the Gundungura map.

[kanangra]

Thanks Mark very good of you to offer but I have a copy.

Regards,

K

[DaveNoble]

Geoff Ford has emailed to me a scanned copy of the Gundungura Guide. I have placed it on this page of my website for download -

http://www.david-noble.net/SURC/GundunguraGuide.html

Thanks to Geoff for the copy and for making it available. If you have not seen it, then it is well worth getting.

Dave Noble

[puredingo]

Thanks for that Dave, and Geoff too. Very big of both of you to to go through the effort, the guide is new to me so I can't wait to dig in. Cheers.

[rcaffin]

Hi Dave
Many thanks! A very noble effort. (Sorry.)
Cheers
Roger Caffin

[ribuck]

Thank you David and Geoff!

[wildwanderer]

Geoff Ford has emailed to me a scanned copy of the Gundungura Guide. I have placed it on this page of my website for download -

http://www.david-noble.net/SURC/GundunguraGuide.html

Thanks to Geoff for the copy and for making it available. If you have not seen it, then it is well worth getting.

Dave Noble

Thank you Geoff and Dave!

Gee those must have been the days? I doubt you'd get 40 uni students interested in that area now. So much for all the developments in wilderness conservation?

Im not sure if its lack of interest.. I was browsing the Sydney Uni bushwalker club site and all their overnight walks fill up within a day or two. Seems to be a problem of a lack of walks on the program as more of the older leaders move on and younger members not taking up the baton with multi day walks. Ran into a group from Sydney uni walking the kowmung a few weeks back. There must have been 30-40 of them, mostly uni age. (was their annual presidents trip etc). So certainly there is interest!

[geford]

Gundungura Guide book topic:
In 2017, I found a request by Alex Allchin - whom I now know instigated the centenary re-enactment of the 1914 Dunphy-Gallop “Kowmung Adventure”. On 02 Nov 2013, he had asked about access to the Gundungura Guide booklet - published as part of the SURC Gundungura Project which I instigated in 1960. As a consequence I have renounced copyright and scanned copies of the Gundungura Map and Guide are in the public domain.

Unfortunately on 04 Nov 2017, Alex (as Allchin09) transferred the topic about Gundungura Map to a thread about my Nelly's Glen sketch map which I had also put in public domain. Since then Alex and I have been in communication.

Several people have tried to resolve anomalies in the Dunphy records. It is awkward because Myles Re-wrote and Re-drew so much as to make his records anomalous. Re-appraisals` of this topic applied especially in the 23 year period after the Gundungura Map was on sale from Paddy Pallin in 1962. In that period government topo maps became available. (Drawn from military aerial photos which I had been permitted to use!) Some discussion has been posted about the ‘Lost’ rock.

Please go to Gundungura Map topic for comments on part played in 1960s by SURC Gundungura Project
Geoff (geford@tpg.com.au)