Wollangambe River Tragedy.

[kanangra]

Young boy perished on a trip through the canyon. Very sad. Full story yet to emerge. Heart goes out to the family. Sounds like a family group too.

K.

[johnw]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/search-for-canyoners-ends-in-tragedy-20100114-m9ox.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/15/2792886.htm?section=justin

I've been following the SAR story about this over the past few days. It is a very sad outcome and I echo Kanangra's sentiments.

Unfortunately it has already prompted the usual outcry from sensationalist media and ignorant members of the public who wish to regulate bushwalking and related activities out of existence. This despite the full details of this tragedy being unknown. It's a pity that these people can't see a parallel with the (likely much higher IMHO) risks that they take in everyday suburbia in relation to road accidents and crime.

Blue Mountains police have also renewed their call for bushwalkers to carry PLBs (note this was actually a canyoning party). NPWS and police in the Blue Mtns do have a number of PLBs available for loan (free), so I can understand their frustration. But whether or not having one would have made a difference in this case remains to be seen.

[Ent]

Ok I hear the sound of the legislative wheels starting to roll on mandatory PLB to be carried. No doubt some "expert" will be found to find fault somewhere claiming inexperience or lack of equipment, etc, etc, etc and away the whole process goes until the powers to be regulate walking or other outdoor activities out of existence for many people by adding cost onto cost. The details of the tragic event are still yet to be fully covered so not to sure what advantage a PLB would have been in this case. I sincerely hope the reporting concentrates on the facts and not supposition nor finding fault.

As for PLB my person opinion it is a personal choice on the decision to carry and use and using twenty-twenty hindsight on questioning people's decisions does not serve much purpose. If the government was serious then maybe they should be GST free like Rates, Fines, Food, etc. It is clear though at least the NSW Police have an official line sounding a bit like the Fire-brigade's push to have smoke alarms installed and regularly checked in homes.

It is a sad situation so lets hope media hype and "experts" do not make it any sadder for those affected by this tragedy.

Regards Brett

[LAMEA-Gals]

This certainly has been a sad day for the family and friends of these young people.

The pros and cons of PLB's have been discussed before in these forums. I do think that having them for hire for free is a good initiative but I just wanted to comment on the practical issue of hiring them in the Blue Mountains.

You can get one at Blackheath NPWS office or Katoomba/Springwood Police stations after hours. This covers alot of the walking area in the Blue Mountains but isn't so practical for those going up the Bells Line of Road to places like the Wollangambe area, north side of the Grose Valley and Gardens of Stone National Park etc etc (and all those other canyons off the Bells Line of Road). If you were starting a trip from Mt Wilson and needed to pick a PLB up it would involve a 2 hour round trip diversion to Blackheath. Not so practical for this area - considering the volume of bushwalkers and canyoners starting from this end of the park perhaps they should also be available at Windsor police station too?

[johnw]

...The pros and cons of PLB's have been discussed before in these forums. I do think that having them for hire for free is a good initiative but I just wanted to comment on the practical issue of hiring them in the Blue Mountains.

You can get one at Blackheath NPWS office or Katoomba/Springwood Police stations after hours. This covers alot of the walking area in the Blue Mountains but isn't so practical for those going up the Bells Line of Road to places like the Wollangambe area, north side of the Grose Valley and Gardens of Stone National Park etc etc (and all those other canyons off the Bells Line of Road). If you were starting a trip from Mt Wilson and needed to pick a PLB up it would involve a 2 hour round trip diversion to Blackheath. Not so practical for this area - considering the volume of bushwalkers and canyoners starting from this end of the park perhaps they should also be available at Windsor police station too?

You've raised a good point and suggestion. It all depends on where you are coming from I guess. For me it's usually quicker to get to the Wollangambe area via the Great Western Hwy then Mt Victoria across to Bells Line of Rd, so calling in at Springwood/Katoomba/Blackheath is not a problem. But many others would be coming from northern parts of Sydney and would go directly up Bells. So having PLBs available at Windsor or Richmond would make sense.

[tasadam]

A few things.
Firstly, it is very sad and my condolences to the boy's family and friends. I too was listening to the updates on the news and am sad to hear of another wilderness tragedy.

Secondly, that link says

Low, thick cloud prevented police from immediately flying the remaining members of the party from the canyon, including a dead male.

Is that politically correct? It doesn't read very tastefully, perhaps "including the body of the 15 year old male victim".

Thirdly, the PLB legislation debate again...
Seat belts are compulsory, yet people die using them, and people die not using them.
Legislating to make PLB's compulsory will only give the authorities something else to prosecute you with if you cannot afford one, some people will still walk without them, whether it is a financial decision (cannot afford one), or a logistical one (cannot get to borrow one). My seat belt analogy is not really applicable, because they are always there, and not wearing them is plain stupid. But even if you do wear one, it won't always help you. Just like carrying a PLB, it won't always save you, your accident might be a fatal one / weather might prevent a rescue / you might be canyoning and not have access to a satellite reception / your unit might be faulty / other reasons....

Other points, it sounds like having a PLB might not have helped, from what I read it seems the body was trapped for some time, also would it even work in a canyon?

[flatfoot]

A truly tragic set of circumstances. Unfortunately the young adventurer was killed only hours before the group was found. This story is a recent update.

[rcaffin]

Unfortunately it has already prompted the usual outcry from sensationalist media and ignorant members of the public who wish to regulate bushwalking and related activities out of existence.

Fortunately, the media being what it is, the hoorah will be gone by Monday.

Blue Mountains police have also renewed their call for bushwalkers to carry PLBs (note this was actually a canyoning party).

Just how carrying a PLB would have prevented the death is not clear - maybe he could have waved the PLB at the rock to deflect it?
Frankly, I don't think this one will go anywhere. The Police and NPWS etc KNOW that they can't do anything about it, and that a PLB would not have made any difference. The party was delayed, yes, but apparently quite able to rescue itself. An accident happened with the boulder - it could have happened if every member of the party had been carrying a sat phone and a PLB.

Cheers

[johnw]

Blue Mountains police have also renewed their call for bushwalkers to carry PLBs (note this was actually a canyoning party).

Just how carrying a PLB would have prevented the death is not clear - maybe he could have waved the PLB at the rock to deflect it?

Good point Roger. As tasadam questioned earlier, I also wondered if a PLB would have been of any earlier use in locating them. For example my experience with GPS (rather than a PLB, or GPS equipped PLB) in that sort of environment is that they don't work. And you don't have to be in a canyon. Below cliffs with open terrain everywhere else can stop them in my experience.

Frankly, I don't think this one will go anywhere. The Police and NPWS etc KNOW that they can't do anything about it, and that a PLB would not have made any difference. The party was delayed, yes, but apparently quite able to rescue itself. An accident happened with the boulder - it could have happened if every member of the party had been carrying a sat phone and a PLB.

Yes, that's the terrible irony about this incident. What is behind the perpetual insistence that people carry PLBs every time someone is lost or injured etc? The "free loan" units in the Blue Mtns were donated by a local business as I understand it. Does that have some bearing on it in this instance? I'm still thinking about getting a PLB eventually, simply because I'm doing more solo walking lately. But I'm conscious of the limitations.

...that link says

Low, thick cloud prevented police from immediately flying the remaining members of the party from the canyon, including a dead male.

Is that politically correct? It doesn't read very tastefully...

Probably not politically incorrect, but definitely insensitive. Pity the author didn't put themself in the position of the boy's family before writing that.

[Jellybean]

A tragic event for all concerned.

Unfortunately those not involved in outdoor activities and/or aware of the practicalities in the use or limitations of PLBs automatically assume - with the assistance of sensationalist media beat-ups - that a PLB is the universal remedy for all mishaps and that anyone not using one is totally irresponsible.

Agree with the comment above that the more widespread availability of PLBs would overcome one of the practical issues associated with carrying a PLB. However, it still won't be useful in all situations as already highlighted by others above.

[melinda]

A normal day in Wollongambe One goes something like this:

Floating down the canyon on lilos

etc 024 (717x538).jpg (78.11 KiB) Viewed 27882 times

The beautiful Wollongambe One lilo canyon

Wollongambe One (538x717).jpg (59.54 KiB) Viewed 27882 times

Hard to understand how it could all go so wrong!

All sympathy to those concerned.

Melinda

[climberman]

This was posted (by others) on http://www.chockstone.org (http://www.chockstone.org/Forum/Forum.a ... PagePos=20), in relation to the matter at hand

The following was posted on OzCanyons:
It's by no means official but, unitl the coroner is done, there won't really be one.

Not sure exactly where the accident occurred but the group were liloing/swimming for about 7-8 hours. Obviously this would have taken them well past the exit and I can't understand why they just didn't backtrack. But they did exit on the correct side on Tuesday but were obviously very lost. The spent the night in an overhang huddled together and continued up at sunrise. They eventually found a track and followed it and ended up back in the canyon! Then the strangest thing, they swam across the river to the other side and began climbing again. There was some rain later, so they drank out rock pools of picked up some water but ran out again later. The spent the night in another overhang and it rained heavily overnight so they collected plenty of water in a lilo. The next day, Thursday they decided to climb to a high point and try to attract a helicopter. Two of them were at this point and the other 4 including Nick and Allan were in the overhang. Nick decided to walk up to the point, only about 100m up from the overhang, but never got there. Allan went up 20mins later to see him and discovered he wasn't there. The others left Allan there and began a search. They had heard a "thud" earlier but did not realise what it was. The discovered Nick twisted and crushed under the boulder about 50m away, already deceased. They couldn't move the boulder and ran down to the overhang to get Chris and Beth to help. The 4 of them managed to get him out and tried to perform CPR but realised it was futile. They were spotted by a chopper about 3 hours later. A real tragedy. Much speculation will continue over this I'm sure, but it was just a terrible tragic accident. He is now at peace. My thoughts are with his companions and his family.

[DaveNoble]

Rather than carrying a PLB, I would have thought that a compass would have been worth taking? I understand that the party was found on the north side of the Wollangambe River. If they had a compass then perhaps they would have worked out that they should not have re-crossed.

Dave

[melinda]

At the normal Wollongambe One exit if you look up on the cliff face directly facing you (as you come down the river), you will see the word 'EXIT' painted in faded white letters.
Easy to miss if you were not looking for it.
Wollongambe One is a very popular trip. Many people with little or no bush skills do it regularly.
Now I am not one for putting signs up here, there and everywhere in the bush, I like 'my' bush in a natural state.
However I do realise that 'my' bush is also 'other' people's bush, and some areas need to be made accessible for those with little or no bush skills.
So I'm wondering if well used, popular areas like the 'Wollongambe One' should have better signage?
I'm not sure, what do others think?
Melinda

[kanangra]

Melinda,

I think this tragedy shows that a sign would be appropriate there.

K

[DaveNoble]

Melinda,

I think this tragedy shows that a sign would be appropriate there.

K

Saying what - "be careful of pulling on rocks after rain?".

Remember - there are lots of "exits" (eg at least 6 routes with tracks that I can think of, and lots of others without tracks) - going out of the Wollangambe to Mt Wilson that are regularly used. And that the area is wilderness - so should not have signs or marked tracks.

I think the warning sign at the starts are all that should be there.

Dave

[melinda]

Somehow I think Dave's comment might be a winning argument:

...the area is wilderness

Melinda

[iandsmith]

Fascinating discussion, I knew I'd find all the info I was looking for here. Cheers all.

[wellsy]

I was talking to a bloke from Newcastle who joined joined us on an SBW trip down Coachwood canyon in February. He was involved in the search for this group and apparently they had already been spotted by the helicopter crew before the young fellow pulled the rock down on himself. As regards the exit sign issue there has been a number of painted 'EXIT' signs on that cliff face over the last 30 years or so and the sign keeps getting removed. In the 80's and 90's, as a member of the Blackheath Bush Fire Brigade I was involved in a number of searches of groups who'd missed that particular exit and were found downstream. "Uncle Bob(sargeant) Kelso", usually in charge of the search, swore he would 'cut the balls off ' one of the correspondents on this site if he ever got hold of him for removing the exit sign. From memory it's pretty obvious where the signs have been removed with a grey paint wash or similiar. The trouble with putting up signs is where do you stop/draw the line. I can remember calls for signposts to be placed out on Kanangra Tops years ago because people couldn't/wouldn't bother to learn to navigate. The Wollangambe tragedy is terribly sad and maybe NPWS or police will bite the bullet and carve an exit sign into the rock face.

[WarrenH]

When we don't kill ourselves from our total incompetence that we are expected to be perfecting, we are proving NSWP&WS staff and their signage wrong. SHAME!

Please get with the programme and give our park's rangers a reason for their being as lame as they are.

Park rangers can't be expected to only collect camping fees, refresh toilets rolls and tell park visitors why the don't know their park tracks and conditions ... because they are too busy emptying garbage bins at camp sites and selling soft toys in park shops. As I was told three times today.

This is what they say, when ever I ask for detailed track info, 'We don't have the time to get out to know and walk the tracks "... so go and kill yourselves to justify the park staff's culture of fear and allow them to get out there.

Get with the programme be a sacrificial walker or canyoner and don't do some lame-assed park ranger out of a real job. They need you to kill yourself. So go and make the ultimate show of incompetence to prove their signage right.

Keep a park ranger employed let them be useful by collecting you limp body. Otherwise what else do they do that is useful?

Although, Park Rangers are very good at locking gates on tracks and letting the choking obnoxious weeds take over on the closed tracks and deny their responsibility for their failure of a duty of care. Bravo to them for that.

Warren.

[SteveJ]

Intresting rant, not sure what the hell the point was though.

Steve

[geoskid]

Intresting rant, not sure what the hell the point was though.

Steve

I'ts OK Steve - He's an Artisan, the attitude is part of the uniform.
Warren, you can always rebel and refuse to wear the uniform

[SteveJ]

Arrr OK...it's all clear now....

[geoskid]

Arrr OK...it's all clear now....

Yeah, I have often wondered whether my posts come across as .. well ..strange.
I shall try and improve. But not on this one - I like Warren.

[WarrenH]

"Intresting rant, not sure what the hell the point was though." - Steve J.

Steve, think laterally. You call it a rant? ... I call it the reality of why Wally World dies in the bush. Nationl Parks turned our nature parks into tourism parks. They invited Wally World in and have only equipped Wally World with warning signs.

When it comes to stories of old boots found at camp sites, or how inconvenient it is emptying toilets at camping grounds, several park rangers will come onto this site and tell us that they are park rangers ... and what the difficulties are of them being park rangers concerning finding old boots and emptying toilets.

But about their lack of duty of care, and failure to upkeep the historic signage that is the signage that can save a life, park rangers only plant new pretty signage that covers their *&^%$#@! ... their absence here is totally deafening.

Steve J, I suggest that you read this thread again. Do a search here, for emptying toilets and stories of old boots. I think that you will find that park rangers know their actual worth and their place. I do.

Park Rangers sell soft Chinese made native wildlife, collect camp fees and empty rubbish bins. Why aren't they out there watching the Wally World novices and preventing deaths?

In 37 years of walking, canyoning, climbing and bike riding in the bush, not once, NOT ONCE, have I seen a park ranger out in the bush, doing what they are actually paid or pretend to do, NOT ONCE!

I've seen hundreds of their cop-out signage that kills the spirit of the wilderness and been the recipient of their deliberate miss information many times. Signage threatening us with thousands of dollars of fines ... when we are in default of our responsibilities, I find this from National Parks, in-keeping.

Warren.

[north-north-west]

Warren,
Your tone implies that your anger is directed principally at the rangers. Is that really so? And, if not, how about a bit more ranting and raving at the true culprits?

[SteveJ]

It is sadly a blame society and people no longer accept responsibility for the consequense of their own actions. I feel there is nothing to be gained by finger pointing and blame shifting. I have had only positive experiences in my dealings with rangers and other NP ground staff across the various states and feel they do a good job with the limited resources they have in a top heavy public service.

Steve

[WarrenH]

Warren,
Your tone implies that your anger is directed principally at the rangers. Is that really so?

Yes definitely. Absolutely, but not for the Kosciuszko Rangers or Namadgi Rangers who I like a lot and have had professional service from ... but places like Royal, Gloucester, Glen Innes and in particular Victoria are difficult to rely on.

I don't ring a park unless I need advice on park conditions about not often used routes or localities. The replies that I have been given lately are unprofessional, dismissive, blatantly rude, park ignorant, precious and patronising.

When I say that I'm from out of the region, I'm shut out and told the best walks are the two kilometre walks around camping sites and if I want information go and check the web site. I wouldn't ring park offices if the web sites were up to date or even half accurate.

When I say I'm from the area close to the particular park I'm encouraged to visit and given adequate advice. It is blatant discrimination.

Try this yourself Scavenger if you are truly enquiring. Ring a park in NSW and say that you are from out of the region, I can give you the questions that I asked. Then ring the next day or later in the day and say you are a farmer living close to the edge of the particular park. Ask the same questions, then post the replies. You will be treated differently ... very differently. Which of course should not happen.

First you will be told by the person that they don't know where you are requesting information for, apart from being instructed to fill in forms and you will be told about the high chance of getting lost in the park. Then as a pseudo farmer when you ring, the Rangers will start talking to you about bating dogs and fire regimes and don't fail to go here, these are the old relic sites you should visit, these are the best spots to see and for wild camping and to avoid other spots because of poisoned baits ... it is discrimination. The Rangers are so dishonest and selective with their advice, they are dangerous to the public.

The information given is so inconsistent it is dangerous. It would be interesting to know if park information was given to the group from the Wallangambe River tragedy and if false or misleading information was a contributing factor to them losing their way. Even if they received information that created doubt.

After being the recipient of so much miss information from NSW National Parks Rangers lately and the withholding of information by National Parks Rangers, which I can only view as being deliberate ... Rangers do not even practice world's second best practice in NSW. Maybe the Rangers are not as ignorant as they make out they are, maybe they are told by park's administration to play at being dumb, to be totally rude and blatantly ignorant and to dissuade people from visiting the parks. If you want to hear from a profession paranoid by a culture of fear, talk to a National Park Ranger.

Park Rangers certainly have forgotten who owns our National Parks. State Forests Rangers and LHPA Rangers are genuine and most helpful and supportive when I've needed to talk to them lately ... where as National Park Rangers need to take along look at their unprofessional service being delivered to the public.

If you would like to hear about the misinformation that I've been given this week by NSWP&WS Rangers, particularly from Gloucester? ... I'm very happy to detail all of it.

Warren.

[north-north-west]

Rangers principally do what they are told to do, and that would include who gets what sort of information. They're understaffed and underfunded and have no chance of doing everything that needs to be done or even keeping up to date with the state of the parks.
It's the bureaucrats and politicians who make the decisions on these things, not the rangers themselves.

As for ringing up, it's not really on the agenda. Deaf people don't deal well with phones. If I need info I email - and I've always had prompt, accurate, polite and helpful replies from VicParks.
Or else I just make it up as I go along. Rather adds to the sense of adventure.

BTW, as you made a big noise about how rude some kinds of behaviour are: my tag is north-north-west. I changed it for a reason. I don't recall giving anyone a carte blanche to ignore the change.
Now, I can't stop you using whatever name you like for me, and I won't drag the moderators into this, but I really do think it shows very bad manners to keep using that old name.

[SteveJ]

Rangers principally do what they are told to do, and that would include who gets what sort of information. They're understaffed and underfunded and have no chance of doing everything that needs to be done or even keeping up to date with the state of the parks.
It's the bureaucrats and politicians who make the decisions on these things, not the rangers themselves.

damn right and well put.

Steve