Australians slow on the uptake of lightweight gear?

[Petew]

I have spent the past three years upgrading my old walking kit. Everything is much lighter weight and makes being out in the bush much more pleasant.

I have noticed that the lightweight gear still seems to be the exception rather than the rule. It's rare to see lightweight tents or packs being used by people in the bush.

For example, I have only seen one other person using a rain skirt, maybe two tarp tents one zpacks pack.

Are Australians slow/resistant to change?

Personally going lighter has made a huge difference to me. By swapping out my old sleeping bag/mat, pack and tent the weight savings are around 4.5 kg!

I haven't gone stupid light, my new gear is still pretty Hardy and a joy to use.

[Son of a Beach]

Good quality light weight equipment is quite expensive. I have gradually (over the last ~10 years) replaced a lot of my equipment with lighter versions and saved a similar amount of weight. I have not gone extreme light weight, but the gear is still very expensive. Therefore it took me about 10 years to reduce my pack weight by that much.

If I was still in my first job (or a student, etc), there's no chance I could afford good quality light weight gear in Australia.

It's difficult to justify spending hundreds (thousands?) of dollars replacing gear that is still working fine, just to save weight. But as I get older, the more I can justify it!

[Petew]

True, but the gear (mostly) isn't super expensive and it costs relatively the same everywhere (apart from shipping).

The Cactus Hector pack I replaced cost me $500 15 years ago. I bought an Osprey exos 48 for $140.

My original thermarest ultralight cos more money than my sts ultralight, my EE Enigma quilt cost 2/3 of my original sleeping bag etc..

I too am getting old and crusty and with the kids getting into walking I needed to get more gear for them

[daintreeboy]

I personally find a lot of the ultra light weight thing laughable. I see it on youtube videos some guy got a new titanium cup that weighs 100g less than his aluminium one, or you can save 200g by using this mat over another!!! If you need to weigh things and worry about counting grams in my view maybe you should do some more squats in the gym!!!! Also most people are hardly ripped and shredded in my view unless you are less than 3% bodyfat maybe people should look at loosing weight off themselves before worrying about getting titanium tent pegs. Just my view of course. I come from a background in triathlon where there is the same mentality people will spend a fortune for anything made of carbon, unless at the elite level the guy that is the fittest will still smoke the guy that trys to buy speed.

[Petew]

Yes, it's true that many of us could loose weight from ourselves easy enough.

Though I will never spend a cent going to a gym

[Mark F]

I am seeing a slow but growing movement towards lightweight gear. Part of this is due to changes by manufacturers, improvements in fabrics and other technologies and the rise of "cottage" manufacturers who can now, due to the internet, bypass the retailers - think ZPacks, TarpTent etc. Some of the biggest changes have been the move to lighter packs and the acceptance of trail shoes as viable footwear. Some bushwalking clubs (mainly NSW?) in the 60's were using lightweight gear, volleys, tarps etc,but it didn't go mainstream as there was often a perceived, rather than actual, decease in safety and comfort if going down the lightweight route as well as a lack of products. These perceptions are fading but still around even today.

Daintree boy - I will be interested to see if you are still able to carry heavy loads as you approach old age. I am still able to do long and relatively difficult trips as I approach my 70th birthday but this is due to having a base weight of 5 kg. I can certainly lose a few kg of fat but it is the low base weight that allows walking to be pleasurable and possible.

[Petew]

Mark F,

I definitely can't carry the weight I used to when I was 18. I used to lug a 90l pack pushing 30kg when ski touring.

I am turning 50 next year and reducing my pack weight has made a huge difference in capability and enjoyment of walking. My base weight is not as low as yours (6kg).

A few weeks ago me and a mate did the OT with side trips, packs were around 16 kg with 8 days worth of food, some whiskey and winter gear including microspikes and poles.

I wouldn't want to carry what I used to even five years ago.

[Zapruda]

I personally find a lot of the ultra light weight thing laughable. I see it on youtube videos some guy got a new titanium cup that weighs 100g less than his aluminium one, or you can save 200g by using this mat over another!!! If you need to weigh things and worry about counting grams in my view maybe you should do some more squats in the gym!!!! Also most people are hardly ripped and shredded in my view unless you are less than 3% bodyfat maybe people should look at loosing weight off themselves before worrying about getting titanium tent pegs. Just my view of course. I come from a background in triathlon where there is the same mentality people will spend a fortune for anything made of carbon, unless at the elite level the guy that is the fittest will still smoke the guy that trys to buy speed.

This is a horrible attitude and very narrow minded.

Saving 100g on a mug and 200g on a mat and then another 700g on a tent and sleeping bag is already 1kg you don't have to carry. How is carrying less a bad thing?

I go as light as possible when I'm in the bush. Why? - So I don’t have to worry about the pack on my back. I can go further and for longer, scramble and walk off track more nimbly, prevent injury and enjoy the bush without being over encumbered.

I run marathons and weightlift regularly. I am very fit but why shouldn't I have a lighter pack as well?

If unfit people are buying and using lighter I can only imagine it helps them get out and stay out in the bush longer than they would if they had a heavy pack on their back. Power to them.
Not everyone has time to go to the gym to squat and train for triathlons. Bushwalking may be the only time they get to exercise.

[Heremeahappy1]

Lighter weight is a mind set and a culture, some have this mindset, some don't. Its not all about the gear, good skills and drills, a little experience and establishing a different standard of comfortable will lighten ones load. If you NEED a swag for comfort, that's what you need. If a tarp and cheap sleeping bag works because your experience allows for site selection, reading weather and no need for 6inch mattress, thats right for you.
I cant get over the Australian bushwalking 'look' - boots, gaiters, shorts, jacket, 90l pack for a weekend trip.
We spend so much on getting closer to nature only to spend more $ putting plastics in between.
Oh I put up my tiny tent on a clear night, with zero chance of rain, no wind and bugs-look at me being outdoors...
We'd like to think we are conservationists and all for the environment, then buy 12 packs, 6 sleeping bags, 9 jackets, 13 matts. Recycling, gear repair, what's that? Take the consumerism out of walking.
Hole in the pack- learn to sew.

[Zapruda]

Are Australians slow/resistant to change?

We have this mentality that our bush is so rough and hard on gear, more so than the rest of the world. That’s why we buy canvas pack and 4 season tents for beach camps. It’s weird.

Does someone really need a 3.5 kg 90L canvas Mont pack when they only use it 3 times a year and only on track? Probably not but sale assistants in the shops will tell you otherwise.

I do a lot of scrub bashing and scrambling on a very regular basis and all my UL stuff has held up well. I have the right gear for the right situations though and I understand people aren't as willing to sink the kind of money I have in to gear. Especially if they are only getting out a few times a year.

But I believe there has been a shift over the past couple of years toward lighter kit. There are more locally available options now like Tier Gear, Terra Rosa, Wilderness Threadworks and the shops are starting to stock some UL gear. More people will catch on but it will never become mainstream. Most people don’t have the inclination to care.

[CraigVIC]

I guess it always easy to spend other people's money. Reading this forum you might come to think that most hikers are pretty hardcore but is that really the case? When you see other people's gear do they really overnight 30, 40, 50+ nights a year? Or, do they just do a bunch of daywalking and couple of overnight trips a year?
There would be hardly anyone that has the gear they want, knowing what they know now, as opposed to what they knew they bought it.

[crollsurf]

I was thinking the same as CraigVic, most people only overnight a couple of times a year if that, so it's hard to justify $800+ for a tent when you can get a perfectly good one for around $200.

Losing weight and getting fitter is a mute point in my eyes. Sure, I need to do both but UL for me is the comfort and sense of freedom I get from carrying a pack I barely know I'm carrying. 6-8 hours into a walk and I'm not thinking this pack is getting heavier and heavier, I'm thinking this is just great and loving the walk.

People do show interest in my gear and ask me about it and there is some UL gear available, but you need to hunt the stuff down. You go into most outdoor shops or go online, there really isn't a lot on offer.

I don't think Australians are any slower than anyone else on the uptake, most just don't multiday that much and don't get much exposure to UL equipment when shopping around.

[FionaShedden]

Can't speak for everyone just myself and Hubby.
We are very slowly replacing gear with lighter equipment, but in line with what others have said I am replacing as i need to.As stuff wears out it gets replaced with a lighter weight option but only where I can find for a reasonable price. It takes a long time for gear to wear out though!
I can't justify replacing perfectly good gear just to save a couple of Kilo's when I still easily carry what I have on mostly 2 or 3 days hikes. This counts from both from a money and a waste perspective!
I also like my comforts when I am hiking so am not willing to shed some items that just make my trips comfy for me. If that means an extra kg then so be it.

[Petew]

I am kind of intrigued as to how many nights a year on average people on this forum actually get to sleep outside somewhere.

Personally I average between 20 - 30 nights a year, sometimes more (if I'm lucky). Mainly walking but sometimes kayaking.

Usually a week long trip in winter and a bunch of 1, 2 or 3 nighters at other times, work permitting.

Add another 10 nights or so to that for car camping.

[Zapruda]

I am kind of intrigued as to how many nights a year on average people on this forum actually get to sleep outside somewhere.

Personally I average between 20 - 30 nights a year, sometimes more (if I'm lucky). Mainly walking but sometimes kayaking.

Usually a week long trip in winter and a bunch of 1, 2 or 3 nighters at other times, work permitting.

Add another 10 nights or so to that for car camping.

around 70 nights a year. Thats a mixture of bushwalking, skiing and recently packrafting. I get a lot of use out of my gear.

[crollsurf]

I am kind of intrigued as to how many nights a year on average people on this forum actually get to sleep outside somewhere.

Personally I average between 20 - 30 nights a year, sometimes more (if I'm lucky). Mainly walking but sometimes kayaking.

Usually a week long trip in winter and a bunch of 1, 2 or 3 nighters at other times, work permitting.

Add another 10 nights or so to that for car camping.

Hi Petew, a poll from exactly this time last year http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28356&p=357492&hilit=per+year#p357114

[Petew]

Thanks crollsurf.

Zapruda,Wow! 70 nights, lucky devil. How do you find pack rafting? Lots of fun?

[onward]

Petew » Thu 22 Aug, 2019 1:13 pm

I am kind of intrigued as to how many nights a year on average people on this forum actually get to sleep outside somewhere.

Personally I average between 20 - 30 nights a year, sometimes more (if I'm lucky). Mainly walking but sometimes kayaking.

Usually a week long trip in winter and a bunch of 1, 2 or 3 nighters at other times, work permitting.

Add another 10 nights or so to that for car camping.

I budget on around 100 nights, last year closer to 130 nights this year less, maybe 80. Nights of use is also how I help justify my lightweight gear purchases, e.g., I bought a DCF tent from Japan about 18 months ago it has done over 100 nights so about $8 a night (and off course dropping $ per night every time I use it).
For me the real costs are not in the gear or even the actual hiking, it's fuel, flights and accommodation. I'm going to walk the Great North Walk in a few weeks, airline tickets, getting to and from the airports, the odd meal in a pub and accommodation for one night at one or the other end is not going to leave much change out of $1000! Flying to the UK to walk the South Coast Path cost me more than the gear I carried in my pack was worth! To put out and pick up my AAWT food drops is 3500km of driving and 3/4 nights accommodation (I could of course car camp, but it would add more time) so there is >$1300.

[Moondog55]

When I buy new gear I do try and get the lighter weight version but I only buy gear as and when I need it. I did buy a new but S/H pack here a while ago but I'll be passing it on soon. My new tent is a bit lighter than my old one, but a bit bigger and a bit more wind resistant so there are benefits in new gear, but in the end what I already own won't die until well after I'm dead so I can't ever seem me going ultra Uber-light ever. But it makes sense to use the lightest gear that will do the job; it also makes sense to choose gear for the conditions and some people do pack a little too lightweight sometimes then back off a tad. Safety isn't so much my issue as comfort; I'll take an extra couple of kilos if it makes the trip more enjoyable

[Petew]

Onward, 100+ nights! We have a winner!

I wish I could manage that.

[Mark F]

I managed about 30-35 nights bush walking last year but in the past I have done as many as 100. I also do another 40 or so car camping where I wear out some of my now superseded heavier tents etc. I just look at the gear as a rather cheap hobby compared to say restoring old cars or sailing - it is the travelling costs that add up as onward suggests.

[wildwanderer]

I average around 30-40 nights per year, zapruda I'm turning green with envy at your 70 nights mate!

While light weight gear for alpine use can be expensive, if you're camping in sheltered spots in mainland Australia below the treeline then lightweight gear can be relatively inexpensive.

For tents there is plenty of decent quality lightweight chinese stuff by 3F etc that will fit the bill. Sil tarps with a STS bugnet work great. Approx $200-300 for 3f full tents and Sil tarps by USA manufacturers.

Packs. Osprey exos is light and sub $200 for 48L. Which I find plenty for 6-7 nights even in NZ.

Mats - Nemo are light and not expensive

Quilts it's better to pay for quality. brands like undercling Mike etc are great quality for a good price. You can save money by going dual use and going with a lighter and less warm bag and them boosting with a down jacket it's common to find Macpac/uniglo lw down jackets for $100. Down Jacket is also around camp warmwear.

Rain wear, $200-300 jackets are workable and 200-300 grams. i currently use cutoff $20 rainbird rain pants by rays outdoors.

Stoves and a dual use pot/mug can also be very light and under $200 combined.

Light weight sports shoes are definitely cheaper than boots.

Agree for further afield locations the biggest expense is often the motel accommodation and any flights/airport transfers pre and post trip.

[CBee]

Lightweight bushwalking is more sustainable.

[Lamont]

Are Australians slow/resistant to change?

Yes.

[Petew]

[ribuck]

A friend of mine sets a budget for lightweight gear. He has a limit of $1 per gram saved. So, he would spend $400 on a tent that was 400g lighter, for example.

I reckon another $7000 spent on equipment, and he will have a base weight of zero!

[Petew]

Oh, using that rationale, that means I can finally buy a duplex........let me see, which kidney do I need the least....not sure how much a kidney weighs but there has got to be some weight savings there too.

[Nuts]

Lightweight bushwalking is more sustainable.

For the bushwalker?

There's got to be lots of waste in the gear trend (even tbh ultimately in the indulgence of recreational travel).
The resilience of the bush to walkers, also has it's limits, while lighter packs just further reduce ours.

I'm finding it hard to even give some of the last stuff away. Suspect even when, it's a few weeks use before a tip.

I do handle a lot of bushwalkers packs and they are definitely getting lighter. Not a lot smaller.. but lighter.
Hopefully the next advance is to embrace minimalism

[Nuts]

I come from a background in triathlon where there is the same mentality people will spend a fortune for anything made of carbon, unless at the elite level the guy that is the fittest will still smoke the guy that trys to buy speed.

Get you.. and carbon mtb's for the weekend hack.. but It's not really the same with this, a 'heavy' bike (or hairy legs) never hurt anyone?

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

Are Australians slow/resistant to change?

We have this mentality that our bush is so rough and hard on gear, more so than the rest of the world.

^^^ This... (As a generalisation) Australians and Kiwis seem to think UL is fine for US track-based thru-hiking but not up the the ruggedness of our weather and environment,eg. being an ex-Tasmanian I was always led to believe SW Tas was "different" to everywhere else in terms of scrub and weather. Obviously it's a matter of horses for courses - I wouldn't take a DCF pack scrub-bashing in prickly hakea etc, but I would (and have) take my robic pack for example, which is still much lighter than, say, canvas. Our environment can be harsh but we're not unique in the world by any stretch.