Overland Track in 5 days, no ferry. Which camp sites?

[Son of a Beach]

Iv'e been asked to escort a couple of friends of my wife on the Overland Track in a couple of weeks time. They've even paid for my track pass, which is very kind of them.

They would like to do it in 5 days, and not catch the ferry, but walk the entire distance. This would not be a problem for some, but involves some reasonably long days, and I'm not entirely confident that we'll make that goal, given that one of them has never really done any bushwalking before. However, they're both fairly fit, so we're going to aim for that goal, and if after a couple of days, it looks like we won't make it, we'll revise the plan to include a ferry ride down Lake St Clair. (Can radio a booking onto the ferry when we get to Narcissus).

So assuming they can actually achieve this, I need to even out the hours (and difficulty) of walking as best I can across 5 days in order to avoid any 1 day being much longer or harder than the others. I know of a few good additional camping locations along the track that I could use which would make this easy to do, but these ladies would like to stay in huts for at least 2 nights, so that further limits my options. Here's what I've drafted so far, as a plan of camping locations.

• Day 1: Ronnie Creak (or Dove Lake) to Cirque-ish* (7 hours) - tent
• Day 2: Cirque-ish* to Pelion (8 hours) - hut
• Day 3: Pelion to Windy Ridge (7 hours) - hut or tent
• Day 4: Windy Ridge to Echo Point (5 hours) - hut
• Day 5: Echo Point to Cynthia Bay (4 hours) - car

Does anyone have any further advice on how the walking times each day could be evened out further, given the goal and limitations described above?

Are these walking times for each day about right for a newbie walker?

I'm considering telling them to make it 6 days or catch the ferry, but it may work out OK. I have in the past coaxed unfit complete newbies as far as Windermere on the first day (on a very cold windy day too).

*camp site I found well past Waterfall Valley (not far from where Cirque Hut used to be)

[Son of a Beach]

I had considered shortening day 3 to stay at DuCane, and then day 4 would be to Narcissus, and Day 5 to Cynthia Bay. This is probably a more even spread of time, but I just don't like Narcissus.

If I did go this way, it would be:

• Day 1: Ronnie Creak (or Dove Lake) to Cirque-ish* (7 hours) - tent
• Day 2: Cirque-ish* to Pelion (8 hours) - hut
• Day 3: Pelion to DuCane (4 hours) - tent
• Day 4: DuCane to Narcissus (6 hours) - hut
• Day 5: Narcissus to Cynthia Bay (6 hours) - car

I'm still uncertain of the accuracy of these times though.

Sheesh... I'd rather stay in a tent more often. Would be easy then!

[Nuts]

Both look OK. Why Cant you stay in the tent each night?
If I was taking people and had the experience (that they didnt) I would advise just catching the ferry. The variety of scenery along the track provides a lot of variety whereas the lakeside walk is not on the same level. 4/5hrs of sameold!

Either way, your plans look OK (for a reasonably fit group,,,)
I often meet private walkers out there that put so much into planning that there walk doesnt match. What can look ideal on paper just doesnt make sense given weather, personal condition and actual fitness levels.


20mins on the ferry and a cold beer (or fresh lunch) would be more appealing.... bet they agree when you reach Narcissus Nik

[frenchy_84]

HI there, in winter (shorter days but no snow)
I did:
dove lake to waterfall valley
waterfall valley to pelion * was a long day, when you say Cirque-ish where were you thinking?
Pelion to Kia ora hut including summit to Ossa,
Kia ORa to Narcissus including waterfalls on mersey
last day had the stroll around the lake

had huts every night
hope thats some help,

[Nuts]

I'd imagine Nik means an unofficial camp site past the old cirque hut site?
While there are some great old campsites around, they arent really recognised (nor encouraged....) these days.



Just to add that as the lakeside walk is often (for some reason) considered part of the recognised 'Overland Track'..... it is not...
At least its not recognised as such from the parks side, any more than Ronny creek is now the 'recognised' start of the walk. As a reason for going the 'whole way' it makes about as much sense as starting from the Cradle visitor centre...

(minor post edit by admin)

[Son of a Beach]

Why Cant you stay in the tent each night?

That would certainly be my preference, but being it's their walk, I gave them the choice, and they want huts on at least two nights. The rest of your thoughts make good sense to me.

when you say Cirque-ish where were you thinking?

As per the fine print in the original post, it's a spot I found not far from where Cirque Hut used to be (about 1 hour past Waterfall Valley). I'll not say anything further than that, as it's best to avoid publishing details of such unofficial camp sites.

[Nuts]

Why Cant you stay in the tent each night?

That would certainly be my preference, but being it's their walk, I gave them the choice, and they want huts on at least two nights. The rest of your thoughts make good sense to me.

yer, youve got Pelion, always a good hut night nowdays. Even though Narcissus is a bit of a rattrap it beats my experiences in Echo Point. Even camping there is better IMO.. There's some good spots (away from the hut if its busy)

[Son of a Beach]

Just to add that as the lakeside walk is often (for some reason) considered part of the recognised 'Overland Track'..... it is not...

Your correct that it's not recognised as such by Parks, but it is on the maps.

At least its not recognised as such from the parks side, any more than Ronny creek is now the 'recognised' start of the walk. As a reason for going the 'whole way' it makes about as much sense as starting from the Cradle visitor centre...

It makes a lot more sense if you don't have $40 each for the ferry ride. (I don't know if that's their reason or not, but it is certainly a valid one). By comparison, the trip in a friend's car from the Visitors Centre to the start of the walk will cost us each about $1.

[Nuts]

Fair enuff More comments for the readers than the author..
Thought the ferry was $28..(?)

[stepbystep]

Is Lake Will still a viable campsite or is this also frowned upon? It is shown in Chapman's OT book but not mentioned.
I had considered staying there on night 1 of a planned trip.

[Son of a Beach]

Fair enuff More comments for the readers than the author..
Thought the ferry was $28..(?)

I thought it was $38, but have checked the topic I thought I got that figure from again, and apparently it's actually $35 according to the author (my memory is obviously not very reliable).

[tastrekker]

I like the agenda proposed by Frenchy_84. Wherever you skip a hut, you are going to have a long day. In your suggestion, you have skipped Kia Ora which lumps the climbs over Pelion Gap and Du Cane Gap into the same day. This essentially eliminates the possibility of doing the side-trips to Mt Ossa and the Mersey River waterfalls. I've often heard people say Du Cane Gap always seems to drag and seem to take longer than it should. You would be making Du Cane Gap at the end of a long day.

In Frenchy_84's suggestion, he has skipped Windermere which makes the second day long but fairly flat or gentle undulations with very few worthy side-trip options. The hill out of Frog Flats can be a killer at the end of a long day but that is easily fixed by camping at Frog Flats (a bit leechy and mosquitoish but slap on the DEET, you'll be right!) The other hut Frenchy_84 skips is Windy Ridge which means the long haul over Du Cane Gap becomes a morning achievement and the afternoon on that long day is the relatively flat going down to Narcissus.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks tastrekker. Some good thoughts there regarding the uphill sections. Frog Flats is a beautiful spot to stop for morning tea, but I don't ever want to camp there - the swarms of mozzies and leeches is just too much me (I don't use DEET, as I don't get troubled by them enough in most other places, and I don't like the fact that it can eat through some plastics ).

I'm starting to remember the last time I walked from Pelion to Windy Ridge with newbies, via the waterfalls alternate route, and it was a very long day. Everyone (including me) was really stuffed and not terribly happy for the last hour or so. So what you're saying does make good sense.

My second plan is very similar to frenchy's, and I'm starting to think it may be the best alternative, and I'll just have to get over my dislike of Narcissus. It's a nice spot for a swim if the weather's good, anyhow. I don't think the ladies I'm walking with will want to climb any mountains on this trip, so the slightly longer walk to DuCane instead of Kiaora will end up being a good thing, making the next day not as excessively long.

Yes, I think I'm convinced... I'll go for my second plan rather than the first one.

Do my walking times look about right for novice walkers?

[tomberli]

Have walked the track nearly 40 times...

To put it simply, 5 days seems a bit short if you have people with no experience and including the lake. Just in case it helps, there is some good campsites to be found: Near lake will, on Pine forest Moor, at Pelion Creek before dropping into Frog Flats, DuCane (although you shouldn't) or also around Harnett Falls. There is also a few spots going up DuCane gap where you could pitch one or two tents as well as just over the other side - although you might as well go to the hut if you're over the hump.

It would be a shame having to miss out on most of the sidetrips, so I would suggest giving the lake a miss and climbing some hills and visiting some waterfalls instead. If you re going to lump Pelion and DuCane gap into one day, PM me for shortcut in case you don't know it already.

[Son of a Beach]

Thanks tomberli. Certainly some wise words there. Yes, I'm familiar with a lot of alternative campsites along the way which I'd prefer to use, but the people I'm walking with would prefer to use huts on at least half of the nights, and since it's their trip, it's only fair that I aquiesce to their requests on such things.

I also think that 5 days is pushing it for newbies, but it's certainly feasible. I did it in 4 (including Pine Valley and Mt Ossa, but excluding the lakeside walk) the first time I went through, when I was a fairly inexperienced walker. However, we have built into our plan the option of changing to use the ferry if it looks like we'll need it, so we're flexible in that regard.

I'm curious about your comment about camping at DuCane where you say, "DuCane (although you shouldn't)". I thought this was an officially sanctioned camping area (tents only - I know that sleeping in the hut is not permitted). There's always been a toilet there, and often tents (I've camped there before, myself). Is this no longer an officially recognised camp spot?

Have walked the track nearly 40 times...

To put it simply, 5 days seems a bit short if you have people with no experience and including the lake. Just in case it helps, there is some good campsites to be found: Near lake will, on Pine forest Moor, at Pelion Creek before dropping into Frog Flats, DuCane (although you shouldn't) or also around Harnett Falls. There is also a few spots going up DuCane gap where you could pitch one or two tents as well as just over the other side - although you might as well go to the hut if you're over the hump.

It would be a shame having to miss out on most of the sidetrips, so I would suggest giving the lake a miss and climbing some hills and visiting some waterfalls instead. If you re going to lump Pelion and DuCane gap into one day, PM me for shortcut in case you don't know it already.

[tomberli]

I'm curious about your comment about camping at DuCane where you say, "DuCane (although you shouldn't)". I thought this was an officially sanctioned camping area (tents only - I know that sleeping in the hut is not permitted). There's always been a toilet there, and often tents (I've camped there before, myself). Is this no longer an officially recognised camp spot?

Sorry, I thought you were referring to staying in the hut. Camping at DuCane is certainly acceptable - mind you the water there hasn't been very reliable in the past. I think parks in general are encouraging all people to stay in the huts / on the official platforms just because of the sheer numbers going through these days. But that doesn't mean you're not allowed to camp there, sorry.

[Son of a Beach]

Ah yes thanks for the reminder about the water there. I'd forgotten how unreliable it can be during summer. If we end up camping there I'll have to remember to carry extra water towards the end of that day, if there hasn't been recent rain.

[Son of a Beach]

DONE!

We managed to complete the Overland Track in 5 days, including walking the length of Lake St Clair (except that one of the party developed knee problems on the second last day and had to catch the ferry).

Here's the actual walking plan we did:

• Day 1: Dove Lake to Windermere (rained most of the day)
• Day 2: Windermere to Pelion (rained most of the day)
• Day 3: Pelion to south-of-DuCane-hut (Some rain during the morning, but OK in the afternoon)
• Day 4: south-of-DuCane-hut to Narcissus (fantastic sunny day)
• Day 5: Narcissus to Cynthia Bay (fantastic sunny day)

Our camping location on the night of day 3 was about an hour south of DuCane hut.

On day 3 it looked like the weather might clear, so we thought we'd go up Mt Ossa on the way past. But at Pelion Gap, it started raining again, and it looked like it would not clear within the next several hours, so we decided to visit all the waterfalls instead, which we expected to be good after the previous 3.5 days of rain. Our decision was justified, when looking back at Mt Ossa from beyond Kiora after lunch, it was still completely obscured by cloud and all 3 of the main waterfalls were all fantastic.

As it turns out, the 2 ladies I walked with were both quite capable of doing long days and good speeds (until the knee problems). The one who'd never bushwalked before at all, walked somewhat faster than me, and when I was fading out late in the day, she just kept going and going and going at full speed. A real energiser bunny. When we got to the camp sites at late afternoon, she asked, "so what do we do now", and I said, "we relax, and we enjoy being here". And she just wanted to go climb a mountain or keep going, or something. And she ate hardly a thing. I can't figure out where all the energy comes from, as my body has serious problems if I do that much walking without eating decent meals (firstly fatigue, then nausea, etc - low blood sugar problems).

Anyhow, we had a great walk, and it goes to show, that if you are reasonably fit, and capable of walking long days every day, the Overland track is no problem in 4 days (or 5 days, including the lakeside walk), even with a side trip or two along the way. NB: I wouldn't recommend this for most people, who find that 6 days or more (+ a ferry ride) is more reasonable.

[frank_in_oz]

Good stuff Nik,
Some of those old buggers will walk the pants off most people. Mate in the Geelong Bushwalking Club regularly gets burnt off by ladies in their 70's!
Shame about the weather...