Another cheap tent rebuild for winter. 2022 this time

[Moondog55]

Next doors just gifted me this old tent to use or recycle.
No fly with it just the inner and the poles.
Thinking a bigger group shelter for winter 2022 at Pretty Valley; assuming no lock-downs and I'm still capable.
Not remotely winter capable "As-Is" but I reckon I can make it work with minimum expenditure.
The way the poles are made it will be easy to thread some PVC conduit over them and I know that gluing sections together makes them stronger.
OK that is one small problem solved already.
My main worry is handling snow load over night when the shelter is not occupied [ as per all past seasons most of us sleep in our small tents because it's warmer and our mountain tents are stronger by design.
I have tubing here to make a decent centre pole [ hybrid CF and alloy ] to support the crossing poles in the apex and I can work that out
I'd like peoples ideas for supporting the rest of the tent. The external frame I made and which didn't get used this year is going to be too small as this one is wider by 400mm
Layout is crossing poles in the middle and then two sets of transverse poles at each end, grey poles only slightly short than the yellow ones.
A massive 6500 * 3000mm floor area, which means a huge sail area and correspondingly the wind load would be huge too.
Hit me with your ideas peeples

[+dj_hansen+]

I love a good Moondog tent modification thread. With those poles, could you add some additional poles/struts at the corner 'bends' to brace the tent longitudinally? Add additonal storm guy ropes and voila.

[Moondog55]

The photo makes it look like the end poles are tilted but when tensioned at the floor they should be vertical. So I'm hoping that when reinforced and with a ridge pole the tent will be OK
I am having trouble finding 26mm C-clips tho, so it might be lengths of cord to do that job. The floor is degraded so the peg points are very weak so I'll need to do something about that.
All the zips popped open but squeezing the zipper pulls fixed that, probably I'll stitch the zippers shut and paint with silicon and keep a single entrance or have just the end entrances, one for normal use and the other "Justin Case"
I won't be able to do much sewing on this one due simply to its size.
Been thinking about simply using cheap double sided tape to close off all the mesh in the roof, using some of the cheap breathable fabric taken for other old, cheap tents.
Near enough being good enough for a single seasons use as this tent was going to landfill anyway
Except for the section where the flue from the wood stove goes, that will use an old fibreglass fire blanket siliconed in place and with a hole cut out. ALDI sell fire blankets for $5- each and I have some spare.

[Moondog55]

Tents like this are relatively strong with the fly on [ relative to mild summer weather] and properly guyed out.
Guying this monster to survive an Alpine gale might be hard to achieve as there is only the one set of crossing poles. It might come down to how long it lasts in the first big wind rather than the first heavy snow fall.

[Moondog55]

Might not be doing much on this tent for a while if ever.
Cecile kindly gave me permission to buy a brand new winter basecamp tent.
Toms Outdoors had a Varanger lavvu for sale in the 14P version Skin and pole only.

https://www.helsport.com/en/tents/basec ... 9981044486

Thanks to Zip-Pay and $56- a month I bought it.
Should be here in a week.
I've had one before but sold it as it was simply too small for what I needed, this one is double the size but more importantly much taller.
Already having the Helsport tent stove was one reason Cecile said OK, the other was that it would have cost me at least $200- to fix the cheapie.

[telemarktim]

Might not be doing much on this tent for a while if ever.
Cecile kindly gave me permission to buy a brand new winter basecamp tent.
Toms Outdoors had a Varanger lavvu for sale in the 14P version Skin and pole only.

https://www.helsport.com/en/tents/basec ... 9981044486

Thanks to Zip-Pay and $56- a month I bought it.
Should be here in a week.
I've had one before but sold it as it was simply too small for what I needed, this one is double the size but more importantly much taller.
Already having the Helsport tent stove was one reason Cecile said OK, the other was that it would have cost me at least $200- to fix the cheapie.

Hi Moondog, I think you are going a bit soft to give up so quickly. That is a massive tent (more than twice the diameter of mine! Do you think the pole will be strong enough?
Did you get back to ski at PV? I got in one BHP ski week via Trapyard Gap in between the lockdowns.
Tim

[Moondog55]

Not so much soft as growing old fast and not so much time left to do stuff in.
I do have some doubts about 32 mm aluminium being strong enough myself but I happen to have a 40mm carbon fibre and aluminium section that will slide over the pole as reinforcing if needed.
It may be one of the stronger alloys like 6061 tho.
Only a few days skiing as I fell and broke a bone in my spine that was so painful I needed to go home and see a doctor, snapped a transverse spinal process..
I may still do something with that old tent. I'll investigate the poles alloy further

[telemarktim]

Sorry to hear about that. Sound serious.

[Moondog55]

Apparently not considered serious by the doctors but painful enough to need a lot of codeine

[Moondog55]

I'm wondering if that =cheap hybrid tent could be modified to use as an entry portal to the lavvu. Cut out the floor almost completely and use it as a place to disrobe and hang all the saturated wet weather gear?

[telemarktim]

I'm wondering if that =cheap hybrid tent could be modified to use as an entry portal to the lavvu. Cut out the floor almost completely and use it as a place to disrobe and hang all the saturated wet weather gear?

Hi Moondog, Sounds like a great idea. You have nothing to lose especially as weight is not an issue for this tent. A funny thing was that I was thinking exactly the same thing about my experimental polyester tent after spending a rainy night in it last night. Interchanging between the wet outside and dry inside is still an issue in rain or snow with 'walk-in pyramid tents (But often worse with crawl-in type tents). I allocate the doorway area to this interchange, but an extension overhead would make it so much nicer to use. It also may provide an opportunity to massively improve ventilation under wet conditions I will be interested to see what you come up with.

Tim

[telemarktim]

I'm wondering if that =cheap hybrid tent could be modified to use as an entry portal to the lavvu. Cut out the floor almost completely and use it as a place to disrobe and hang all the saturated wet weather gear?

Hi Moondog, I thought that you had ordered the biggest lavvu tent in the series and thought that the extra entry portal space was a bit over the top. But I see it is the 4 person one. That makes more sense. It would be good to be able to keep the wind and snow loading down by having the portal collapsible while you were not in attendance. shouldn't be hard to do.

Good to hear that your injury was not so serious to the doctor. Could you ski out? It is always a bit of a worry when you are 'out there'.
Tim

[Moondog55]

The more I think about things the better I like the idea of cutting the floor from that old tent, or most of it, and using it as an entry to the heated lavvu.
But no matter how close to each other they get pitched there will be a large bag between them due to the angles of the walls.
One solution would be a tarp or HD fly pitched as a diamond between them or one of the shaped tarps like my old Moss tent extender fly.
Where I'll be setting up next winter is dead flat by bush standards and there is plenty of room for two big tents.
I think if I was going to do that and I was cashed up I'd be getting the full liner and the lavvu floor but that money is being put aside for a couple of new subwoofer drivers for the home theatre

[Moondog55]

Interchanging between the wet outside and dry inside is still an issue in rain or snow with 'walk-in pyramid tents (But often worse with crawl-in type tents). I allocate the doorway area to this interchange, but an extension overhead would make it so much nicer to use.

Tim

This is the biggest issue with tents for winter in Australia, none of the larger tents on the market have large enough porches or vestibules where you can take off your wet storm clothing and hang it to dry. Those that do have an extension use it as an extra living area and ruin its utility by putting a floor in them.
The Hilleberg GT series tents [ and my own Helsport tent] are good in this respect but these are too low for using a cot inside and none of my personal acquaintances are cashed up enough to buy a Hilleberg Stallon
Tim I did buy the biggest of the Helsort lavvus [ nominally a 12 P tent] but if it's raining or snowing heavily crap enters the tent when the door is open and as these are steep walled tents there isn't as much room inside as you might think. With all of these tents you lose a half metre along the edges. They do handle wind very well when the anchors are strong enough.
I have purchased a cheap nylon tarp from Snowys and I'll use that over the top and hand stitch it to shape before sewing on guy points but I also think I'll do a coat with diluted silicon from ground level to as high as I can reach.
I will be cutting the floor out except for a short section around the edges
Some time in May I think is when I'll be ready with everything.

[telemarktim]

Interchanging between the wet outside and dry inside is still an issue in rain or snow with 'walk-in pyramid tents (But often worse with crawl-in type tents). I allocate the doorway area to this interchange, but an extension overhead would make it so much nicer to use.

Tim

This is the biggest issue with tents for winter in Australia, none of the larger tents on the market have large enough porches or vestibules where you can take off your wet storm clothing and hang it to dry. Those that do have an extension use it as an extra living area and ruin its utility by putting a floor in them.
The Hilleberg GT series tents [ and my own Helsport tent] are good in this respect but these are too low for using a cot inside and none of my personal acquaintances are cashed up enough to buy a Hilleberg Stallon
Tim I did buy the biggest of the Helsort lavvus [ nominally a 12 P tent] but if it's raining or snowing heavily crap enters the tent when the door is open and as these are steep walled tents there isn't as much room inside as you might think. With all of these tents you lose a half metre along the edges. They do handle wind very well when the anchors are strong enough.
I have purchased a cheap nylon tarp from Snowys and I'll use that over the top and hand stitch it to shape before sewing on guy points but I also think I'll do a coat with diluted silicon from ground level to as high as I can reach.
I will be cutting the floor out except for a short section around the edges
Some time in May I think is when I'll be ready with everything.

Hi Moondog, It is good to hear that you are trying to improve the tent design for our winter conditions. I look forward to seeing a photo of the final work of art. I have also been working on a pyramid tent addition that creates a wet entry vestibule on one pyramid face. It can maintain walk-in or stoop-n entry depending upon your height. It will keep the snow out when the door or the netted window is open and I think it will enable much better ventilation in that bad weather that is so good for skiing. It only adds 13% of extra fabric weight to the tent.



Here is a link to my Pyramid Tent Vestibule post.
https://timtinker.com/pyramid-tent-with-high-vestibule-entry/
I would be happy to share the spreadsheet model that can calculate the relevant tent panel dimensions with anyone who would be interested.
Tim

[Moondog55]

Wouldn't it shed wind better if that was a 3 panel belled door?
Reminds me of the One Planet Antarctic tent

[telemarktim]

Wouldn't it shed wind better if that was a 3 panel belled door?
Reminds me of the One Planet Antarctic tent

Hi Moondog, I could not find the tent that you mentioned. Do you have a link? I tried to keep the vestibule simple while maintaining walk-in comfort, so two modified panels ending in a triangular wall was as simple as I could do. It will have a permanent noseeum mesh window, with zippered tent fabric behind, on half of the wall and the other half will be the doorway. I think it should be 'collapsable' so that it does not need to be deployed while away skiing, so the wind loading and snow build-up can be mitigated that way. Tim

[Moondog55]

https://www.helsport.com/en/tents-and-s ... 9981044486
This one I can stand up in, for me this is very important, the Varanger Camp 8 was far too short and Australian snow is not dependably deep enough for digging out, when it is even the old Megamid was a palace.

[telemarktim]

https://www.helsport.com/en/tents-and-shelters/base-camping/varanger-12-14-outer-tent-incl.-pole/?code=7029981044486
This one I can stand up in, for me this is very important, the Varanger Camp 8 was far too short and Australian snow is not dependably deep enough for digging out, when it is even the old Megamid was a palace.

Hi Moondog, I agree, standing comfort is just so important as is walk-in entry. Also, a big floor area is useless if it does not have the height or shape to make it useable. Tim

[Moondog55]

I've decided to use this tent as the entry "foyer" to the big lavvu so later today I'll be going to Bunnings to pick up timber and will detour to electrical and pick up lots of PVC conduit and some extra shrink tubing and superglue.
Because of the large unsupported area I'll use some of my spare tubing to make an additional centre pole but I don't see any easy way to make a strong enough ridge pole so in a heavy fall I'll simply hope for the best or get up during the night to shovel.
As always people are welcome to visit and stay at the ski camp at Pretty Valley.

[telemarktim]

I've decided to use this tent as the entry "foyer" to the big lavvu so later today I'll be going to Bunnings to pick up timber and will detour to electrical and pick up lots of PVC conduit and some extra shrink tubing and superglue.
Because of the large unsupported area I'll use some of my spare tubing to make an additional centre pole but I don't see any easy way to make a strong enough ridge pole so in a heavy fall I'll simply hope for the best or get up during the night to shovel.
As always people are welcome to visit and stay at the ski camp at Pretty Valley.

Hi Moondog, Is your vestibule ridge starting at the Lavvu centre pole? If so you could simply run a cord/rope (polyester with very little stretch) from a strong ground peg to the tent pole.where it could be knotted, under the vestibule ridge and then down to the ground again. That would be very strong light, simple and compact.

I might take you up on your visit invitation when I come up along the BHP Road for my next ski trip that way.
Tim

[Moondog55]

I'll probably set them up as separate units but as close as possible to each other and then run a small fly between them and see how I go. as there is no obvious strong point on the lavvu body to attach the fly to and if I am going to sell it on after the ski season I want to leave it as close as possible to new condition.
It won't start at the poles apex as I won't be able to reach that high nor do I wish to alter the pole at all for sales reasons as per above statement. past experience is such that I know a fly like this would be difficult to impossible to deal with in an alpine storm

[Moondog55]

Today I started work on the poles.
Gluing the FG sections together and then sliding the PVC conduit over the lengths and setting the full lengths with roofing silicon.
I've used 3 tubes of cheap Supaglue already.
I did buy a really cheap nylon tarp to use as a fly but so far I haven't had a chance to put the tent up a second time and start work on fixing up the broken zippers or proofing the side walls with silicon.
It being a cheap tent and only meant to last one season I'm going to spend as little as possible on it as the tents only purpose will be a storage place for our wet gear and somewhere to cook.
Some of the work will get done in situ when I go up in late May to make the firewood and gear stash

[Moondog55]

Lucky for me the cheap OzTrail tarp I bought on sale is long enough to cover the tents length.
Naturally being a cheap tarp I'll need to re-sew all the tie-down points etc

[Moondog55]

I am using 20mm Orange HD conduit for the roof sections and the cheaper 20mm grey conduit for the verticals.
As soon as the poles are all done I need to knock up a longitudinal ridge pole.
The cheap tarp has a tiedown at the centre point and I can get access through the roof vents to tie the middle of the tarp to the apex of the tent but because I had to cut out the floor this monster is going to need snow skirts all around; or as much as I can sew on with my old machine.
The tarp is army green, if I stand out too much I'll rattle can with white and grey paint.
Next up is a trip to Bunnings for some roofing silicon and some turps to treat the inner tent and hopefully it will become highly water resistant.
As I now have the Helsort which fits the stove I'll no longer be putting a stove in this tent, that makes life a lot easier for me.

[Moondog55]

I missed some small areas of the tent when I painted on the silicon yesterday so on Monday I'll do it again.
It's only a few patches but in places where it matters.

[telemarktim]

I missed some small areas of the tent when I painted on the silicon yesterday so on Monday I'll do it again.
It's only a few patches but in places where it matters.

Hi Moondog, What ratio of silicone rubber to turps do you use? Tim

[Moondog55]

Hi Moondog, What ratio of silicone rubber to turps do you use? Tim

For this application 330ml tube to 1.5 litres of solvent