Suggestions for Jagungal/Kiandra area short overnighter

[jon_b]

Some friends and I are doing the ACT Rogaining 8 hour event this Saturday, around 10km north of Kiandra. We will have a good part of Sunday + Sunday night (but not much of Monday) free to do a walk in the area.

I'd looked at options involving O'Keefes Hut, Derschkos Hut, Jugungal itself, etc but we're not going to have enough time to walk out from that far in on Monday morning. We're all pretty strong walkers but I don't think we'll want to push any distance the day after the rogaine.

The ideal would be a scenic campsite in that area, around 1-3 hours walk from a road, where we could possibly drop packs on Day 1, continue on as a day walk for a few hours that day, and then exit from pretty quickly from on the morning of Day 2 so we can drive back to Sydney.

I've been looking at the area down around Tumut River / Farm Ridge trail, but it looks like one of those areas where someone who's walked there previously might have some nice ideas that might fit the bill.

Would appreciate any suggestions that fit the time constraints we have on this trip.

[Lophophaps]

Welcome to the forum. From Kiandra the AAWT goes north-east to Witzes Hut and the Murrumbidgee, and south-west to Tabletop Mountain. Going to Witzes involves two river crossings at the start, shallow and about knee deep. From Witzes you can keep on the AAWT for about 3 kilometres, then go west over Gooandra Creek to Gooandra Homestead
https://www.khuts.org/index.php/huts/ko ... -homestead
The track from there is about 5 kilometre from the highway, and this is another 5 kilometres to the car at Kiandra. If doing this trip it may be an idea to leave the car a the end so that you can leave a bit earlier.

A few kilometres in, after crossing the river it should be possible to go north-west off track to meet the Gooandra track a few kilometres on the highway side of the hut.

There are AAWT options going south-west from Kiandra, but they are mostly out and back, with the campsites a bit far from the highway. Long Plain may be possible. I have not been there so I cannot comment.

The Jagungal region is too far. The Farm Ridge circuit is nice, but best done in 2-3 days.

[GBW]

You could walk south from Kiandra to Broken Dam Hut then do a walk to Tabletop Mountain and back to the Hut to camp. It's about 10k easy walking from the highway along Tabletop Trail then a short offtrack section to the hut. Another 5k or so to Tabletop Mountain and has great views.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Broke ... 98!5m1!1e4

[jon_b]

Welcome to the forum. From Kiandra the AAWT goes north-east to Witzes Hut and the Murrumbidgee, and south-west to Tabletop Mountain. Going to Witzes involves two river crossings at the start, shallow and about knee deep. From Witzes you can keep on the AAWT for about 3 kilometres, then go west over Gooandra Creek to Gooandra Homestead
https://www.khuts.org/index.php/huts/ko ... -homestead
The track from there is about 5 kilometre from the highway, and this is another 5 kilometres to the car at Kiandra. If doing this trip it may be an idea to leave the car a the end so that you can leave a bit earlier.

A few kilometres in, after crossing the river it should be possible to go north-west off track to meet the Gooandra track a few kilometres on the highway side of the hut.

There are AAWT options going south-west from Kiandra, but they are mostly out and back, with the campsites a bit far from the highway. Long Plain may be possible. I have not been there so I cannot comment.

The Jagungal region is too far. The Farm Ridge circuit is nice, but best done in 2-3 days.

Thanks for the reply Lophophaps. Have lurked around the forum for many years but just decided to come out under my actual name

Those sound like perfect suggestions....except our rogaine on the Saturday is going to thoroughly cover the whole Gooandra / Witzes area! Perhaps the AAWT north of Long Plain might provide options. Nice to know that we'll be rogaining in a recommended walking area

[north-north-west]

I second GBW's suggestion of Tabletop. It avoids the river crossings on the track north of Kiandra, has good varied scenery, plenty of camping options and some easy off-track sidetrips if you want to extend anywhere.

[jon_b]

You could walk south from Kiandra to Broken Dam Hut then do a walk to Tabletop Mountain and back to the Hut to camp. It's about 10k easy walking from the highway along Tabletop Trail then a short offtrack section to the hut. Another 5k or so to Tabletop Mountain and has great views.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Broke ... 98!5m1!1e4

Thanks GBW - will take a look.

[GBW]

This is the offtrack route I took to Broken Dam Hut from Tabletop Mountain Trail pretty well east from the trail. To get to Tabletop Mtn from the hut just follow Four Mile Trail south.

[jon_b]

This is the offtrack route I took to Broken Dam Hut from Tabletop Mountain Trail pretty well east from the trail. To get to Tabletop Mtn from the hut just follow Four Mile Trail south.

Broken Dam.jpg

Thanks GBW - appreciate the map too. Looks like a really good option given our timing needs. If we had two cars, do you think it would be worth making a loop out of it by returning along Four Mile Track, from Broken Dam Hut directly back to the highway near Rocky Plain? Similar distance (maybe 1km shorter), but avoids an out-and-back.

Or perhaps just dropping a car at Selwyn to shave a few km off on D2...

[GBW]

I'm not %100 sure Selwyn is accessible at the moment since the fires. Four Mile Trail back to the Hwy may be an option but does require crossing the Eucumbene. I haven't done it so can't help there.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

What about blue waterholes? Could walk down and camp at the confluence of Cave Ck and Goodradigbee River (3 hours or so?) and explore from there? It's only a short drive from Kiandra.

[north-north-west]

Four Mile Trail back to the Hwy may be an option but does require crossing the Eucumbene. I haven't done it so can't help there.

If Four Mile Track is the one I'm thinking of, I did that loop once, and just stayed up on the ridge and dropped down to the road near the bridge. It was all very, very open ground, easy walking. Some years back so it may have changed.

ETA: My map shows the track hitting the road west of the river. There's just one minor creek crossing, which is what I remember. No need to cross the river if you're going back to Kiandra.

[Lophophaps]

My recollection is that the scrub between Four Mile Hut site and Broken Dam Hut is relatively light, so you may be able to go that way.

Blue Waterholes requires booking
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/ca ... campground
It may be possible to camp away from there and drive to a point where you can get to the gorge, which is very spectacular.

In April it can get quite cold at night, so camp above the valley floor, preferably in trees. If the trees grow then it's a bit warmer. Nine Mile Creek on the AAWT and the Four Mile Hut valley are cold.

[GBW]

My recollection is that the scrub between Four Mile Hut site and Broken Dam Hut is relatively light, so you may be able to go that way.

Very light Lops, in fact non-existent. It's quite open in places with a few fallen trees the only obstacles. Easily done.

Route to Broken Dam Hut.

NNW: Four Mile Trail goes from Broken Dam Hut and hits the Hwy at Sawyers Hut 5k SE of Kiandra. I think you can drive down to the Eucumbene from Sawyers. Is that the one your thinking of?

[north-north-west]

5km SE of Kiandra sounds right (map has been put away so it's back to the unreliable memory) but I don't remember a hut. Either I left the track to stay up on the ridge or the the track petered out; probably the former. Or I may even have found an earlier line down to the river - I seem to recall walking beside it for a while. But it was all easy walking and a very pleasant way to finish the day.

[Lophophaps]

Like I said, light scrub. That was why I could not recall anything - there is no scrub! My Yarrongobilly and Tanttangarra 1:100 maps show the tracks from the AAWT past Broken Dam Hut going north-east over a few bumps then down to the Eucumbene, then north and up to the highway at Sawyers Hill. This is the section from the river to the road.
https://graphhopper.com/maps/?point=-35 ... i%20Aerial
There seems to be no bridge on the Eucumbene River.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

Blue Waterholes requires booking
https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/ca ... campground
It may be possible to camp away from there and drive to a point where you can get to the gorge, which is very spectacular..

Yeh my suggestion was to park there, not camp there, and walk in to the campsite at the junction of the two rivers. Fantastic spot. Can make it a 1 1/2 day circuit by heading upstream along the Goodradigbee and coming back via Pockets Hut (or in the opposite direction if the first day is the full day).

[jon_b]

Thanks the the replies and suggestions. Appreciate all of them.

From what I can gather online, you can drive in to the Murrumbidgee crossing from Sawyers Hut (on the highway), and it is (usually) a knee-deep crossing. If that was all accurate, then that would be quite a short and very downhill trip out on Day 2 (assu ming a pre-positioned AWD/4WD at the Four Mile Track / Murrumbidgee intersection)

[Zapruda]

Thanks the the replies and suggestions. Appreciate all of them.

From what I can gather online, you can drive in to the Murrumbidgee crossing from Sawyers Hut (on the highway), and it is (usually) a knee-deep crossing. If that was all accurate, then that would be quite a short and very downhill trip out on Day 2 (assu ming a pre-positioned AWD/4WD at the Four Mile Track / Murrumbidgee intersection)

Its the Eucumbene not the Murrumbidgee and the road is often a little bumpy and slippery when wet. The crossing on foot is fine in dry weather.

I'm not sure why everyone is suggesting Broken Dam, Tabelotp, four mile etc. They obviously haven't visited in years and should be thoughtful about suggesting things if their information is out of date. It looks like a complete wasteland after the 2019/20 fires. There isn't a single living snowgum left. Its bleak.

I agree with walk_fat boy_walk. Go to Blue waterholes and explore the gorges, the huts and the beautiful Cooleman plain. Its one of the highlights of northern KNP. Ignore what someone said about booking. That only applies if you are staying at the campground overnight. I suggest leaving your car at the small carpark at the start of the Nichols gorge track and just go exploring. Set up your tent in the snowgums somewhere on the plain. There are plenty of options.

[GBW]

I'm not sure why everyone is suggesting Broken Dam, Tabelotp, four mile etc. They obviously haven't visited in years and should be thoughtful about suggesting things if their information is out of date.

How would you know that?

It looks like a complete wasteland after the 2019/20 fires. There isn't a single living snowgum left. Its bleak.

Beauty comes in many forms.

That's your opinion Zapruda and you're entitled to it but the fact that an area's fire affected doesn't stop me visiting if it's open to the public.

[Zapruda]

Have you GBW? I’m certain Lops and NNW haven’t.

And who’s stopping YOU visiting? But encouraging people to go to an area hit that hard is a bit thoughtless, especially when there are plenty of places that weren’t burnt as badly in the same general area.

I’ve spent 25 days in the area between Happy Jacks Creek gorge and Pollocks Gully since the fires and countless days in the years before the fires so maybe my idea of what is worth visiting or not is a little skewed. I still wouldn’t recommend it though.

[GBW]

No I haven't been there since the fires and pandemic but have seen several trip reports and ample photos showing the current state of the landscape, one as recent as today. It's not a secret! But saying I'm thoughtless for suggesting it just because it doesn't meet your lofty standards is ridiculous.

Surely you aren't suggesting the area is not worth visiting until the snowgums recover?

[Zapruda]

No I haven't been there since the fires and pandemic but have seen several trip reports and ample photos showing the current state of the landscape, one as recent as today. It's not a secret! But saying I'm thoughtless for suggesting it just because it doesn't meet your lofty standards is ridiculous.

Surely you aren't suggesting the area is not worth visiting until the snowgums recover?

OK. Good to get that out of the way. Trip reports and pictures can only show you so much.

My standards aren't that lofty at all actually, I'm generally happy to be just about anywhere in the mountains. I'm suggesting that there are other areas that are more worthy of someone's time in that end of the park. Its not just the dead snowgums, many of which will never recover in that particular part of the park because of the the ferocity of the fire, its the lack of birdlife, the explosion of invasive weeds and grasses, and the general dreariness of a recovering landscape that was burnt more ferociously than just about anywhere else in KNP.

I'm not here for an argument. I just think its important that people give suggestions that are based on current conditions and personal experience.

[Warin]

I just think its important that people give suggestions that are based on current conditions and personal experience.

Someone has to go first. In that case there can be no 'current conditions' and there is a probability of 'personal experience'.
And even if someone else has 'gone first' they may not contribute to the discussion.

People do stuff without any 'personal experience' nor any personal knowledge of 'current conditions'. They usually gather as much information as they can, evaluate it .. and then go to the moon.

[Zapruda]

I just think its important that people give suggestions that are based on current conditions and personal experience.

Someone has to go first. In that case there can be no 'current conditions' and there is a probability of 'personal experience'.
And even if someone else has 'gone first' they may not contribute to the discussion.

People do stuff without any 'personal experience' nor any personal knowledge of 'current conditions'. They usually gather as much information as they can, evaluate it .. and then go to the moon.

I'm giving current conditions. See above.

[Lophophaps]

My last KNP trip was in late 2019 as the fires approached. There was a lot of smoke, not much fun. One reason that I have not been back due to the extensive and severe bushfires. My understanding is that the west side of the Snowy Mountains Highway was burnt quite a bit, and that the east side is mainly unburned. This is why I suggested the east side. Is there a map showing where the fires have been? Blue Waterholes seems best for the short trip sought by the OP.

[crollsurf]

... Is there a map showing where the fires have been?

https://geo.seed.nsw.gov.au/Public_Viewer/index.html?viewer=Public_Viewer&locale=en-AU&runWorkflow=AppendLayerCatalog&CatalogLayer=SEED_Catalog.250.GEEBAM%20Burnt%20Area%20Class

[peregrinator]

... Is there a map showing where the fires have been?

https://geo.seed.nsw.gov.au/Public_Viewer/index.html?viewer=Public_Viewer&locale=en-AU&runWorkflow=AppendLayerCatalog&CatalogLayer=SEED_Catalog.250.GEEBAM%20Burnt%20Area%20Class

Thanks for the link crollsurf. Does anyone know of a similar map covering Victoria? I did find one last year, but the fire data appears to have been removed.

[damomcdermott]

Have you GBW? I’m certain Lops and NNW haven’t.

And who’s stopping YOU visiting? But encouraging people to go to an area hit that hard is a bit thoughtless, especially when there are plenty of places that weren’t burnt as badly in the same general area.

I’ve spent 25 days in the area between Happy Jacks Creek gorge and Pollocks Gully since the fires and countless days in the years before the fires so maybe my idea of what is worth visiting or not is a little skewed. I still wouldn’t recommend it though.

I rode from Kiandra past Tabletop through to Guthega over three days this summer. There is fire damage but I would still regard it as worth visiting. I didn't go via the 4 Mile hut ruins or Broken Dam hut, but around Tabletop Mountain was still very scenic.

Here are some recent pics for reference (taken late Dec 2021):

View looking down towards Kiandra

Tabletop Trail near Selwyn and 4 Mile

Tabletop Mountain

The old diggings and relics may still be worth a look if they survived the fires. It's also possible to enter from Kiandra, pass Tabletop and exit via Denisons/ Providence Portal. But might be a bit far for a walk (was a fairly quick section on the bike). If you do a car shuffle you could enter at Kiandra, climb Tabletop, camp at Broken Dam and get back to the HWY at Sawyers hut the next day. About 27km total.

Happy trails
Damian

[jon_b]

Thanks Damian. Great shots. Looks worth a visit to me.

We ended up walking more about around the rogaine area near Bullocks Hill Campground so we could car camp and head off first thing the next day. It looked like similar vegetation and landscape (except for the Tabletop-style features). Many dead trees unfortunately, I suspect mainly due to die-back rather than fires up that way.

Look forward to heading down to Broken Dam, Tabletop etc next trip.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. Really appreciate it.

[rcaffin]

Well, the trees may be burnt, but that grass is going mad! A lot of those fire trails used to be bare.

Cheers
Roger