General Blue Mountains suggestions

[juz]

Hi All,

We are off to the greater Blue Mountains area for the first time in a few weeks. For context, we are a family with two small (5&7yo) adventurous kids in a standard 2wd corolla. I wondered if anyone had any advice or input on the following:

1) We are looking at an overnight walk. I thought we could walk through the Grose Gorge. Probably start at the Pinnacles (on Mt Hay Rd). Day 1 - walk Lockley Pylon walking track to Acacia Flat, Day 2 - Acacia Flat to Burra Korain Flat, Day 3 - out to the Victoria Falls Lookout.
I think this walk will be good for us.
I wondered if anyone could advise on the likelyhood of getting a Taxi from the finish point back to our car on Mt Hay Rd? And if not all the way, how far would they take us? Can I jog the last few kms back to the car if the taxi stops short?

2) We are thinking about trying a few easy canyons (the kids have climbed a little, and been lowered off rock climbs, and are good scramblers/swimmers). I thought perhaps we could check out the Grand Canyon and Rocky Creek Canyon. I note the NPWS page says 4wd required to get the Rocky Creek car park, but I have read elsewhere that a 2wd is fine? Any input? Any alternatives that would be better?

3) Day walks. I thought it would be worth walking the Wolgan Valley/Glow worm tunnel circuit. We would be looking at a few more - any favourites in the 5-7km range?

4) Any highly recommended car camping spots for a few nights/days of exploration? Whats Wombeyan caves like?

5) Possibly we might try and squeeze in another short overnighter on the inland side or south areas? Any favourites?

Thanks anyone for there input, especially about rocky creek roads and taxis,

[keithj]

1) We are looking at an overnight walk. I thought we could walk through the Grose Gorge. Probably start at the Pinnacles (on Mt Hay Rd). Day 1 - walk Lockley Pylon walking track to Acacia Flat, Day 2 - Acacia Flat to Burra Korain Flat, Day 3 - out to the Victoria Falls Lookout.
I think this walk will be good for us.
I wondered if anyone could advise on the likelyhood of getting a Taxi from the finish point back to our car on Mt Hay Rd? And if not all the way, how far would they take us? Can I jog the last few kms back to the car if the taxi stops short?

Taxi will probably not go too far along Mt Hay Rd - it depends how recently its been graded - it has steepish gravel hills. Vic Falls Rd is almost level, but you still may have trouble persuading one to pick you up.

Most people do a 2/3 day walking loop instead - leave car at Evans Lookout car park (optionally do Grand Canyon), descend Horse Track, camp at Acacia Flat. Do an out & back to Burra Korain & either camp there or return to Acacia, then on day 3 ascend Perrys & walk back to Evans along clifftop (with 6km of NP road).... no taxi required. Or do the whole thing in reverse to avoid ascending Perrys and have an shorter exit day with time to do Grand Canyon.

[keithj]

2) We are thinking about trying a few easy canyons (the kids have climbed a little, and been lowered off rock climbs, and are good scramblers/swimmers). I thought perhaps we could check out the Grand Canyon and Rocky Creek Canyon. I note the NPWS page says 4wd required to get the Rocky Creek car park, but I have read elsewhere that a 2wd is fine? Any input? Any alternatives that would be better?

Both those canyons will probably still have v. cold water - might put the kids off canyoning for life.
Deep Pass is the dry canyon to introduce small kids to. Coralla will probably get you there.
Also 'Dry Canyon' near the end of Glowworm Tunnel Road is an easy accessible kids canyon (see OSM). The GWT road should be kept in good nick as its currently the only way into Wolgan Valley . It does get v rutted after rain.

3) Day walks. I thought it would be worth walking the Wolgan Valley/Glow worm tunnel circuit. We would be looking at a few more - any favourites in the 5-7km range?

Don't access Wolgan Valley/GWT from Wolgan Valley Road https://wolganvalley.org.au/emergency-information/

[juz]

Hi keithj,
This is great information, thanks for taking the time to share it.
In regards to cold canyons, thanks for the tips on alternatives. I assume you are suggesting it would be to cold to be fun even wetsuited up?
I had been looking at Deep Pass - I think this is the same as Nayook Ck? It looks like a good idea for us, as does dry canyon. Perhaps we’ll have a couple of nights at Deep Pass Campground, and perhaps have a day to look at Dry Canyon, a day to look at Deep Pass Canyon and a day for glow worms tunnel/wolgan valley circuit. Leave rocky creek alone for the time being.
Thanks for the heads up on Wolgan Valley Rd. Very good to know.
Thanks again for the input!

[marron]

If you end up staying at Deep Pass campground make sure you check out the T-slot thingo nearby. Pretty cool feature, kids will love it. I'm sure if you look up info on the campground you'll find it but let us know if you can't work it out.

Just in case you're considering the Grose still, I agree with Keith about a circuit being your best bet, relying on taxis probably not the greatest (especially with tired kids). Park at Evans lookout, work in the Grand Canyon walk somewhere, even the non-canyoning part is pretty cool.

[juz]

Hi Marron,
Thanks for the info. We are still hoping to get a couple of nights in the Grose, though we might switch to a circuit as both you and Keith have suggested. I liked the idea of the through route, but I see the logistics being difficult.
In regards to Deep Pass, I think we may go for 2 or 3 nights. Thanks for the info about the T-slot. It looks fantastic. Sadly though I see on the NPWS website that Deep Pass Canyon is closed due to rockfall hazard. As an alternative, it looks like a good day out to walk from Deep Pass to River Caves canyon and back. Good idea?
Thanks again for the input,
It is tricky organising and working things out from afar. It seems there is lots of closures at the minute and 4wd required for a lot of things.

[ribuck]

I wondered if anyone could advise on the likelyhood of getting a Taxi from the finish point back to our car on Mt Hay Rd?

Back in the 1980s, Blackheath Taxis would take people anywhere, on any public road, and I used this service several times.

In the early 2000s, I wanted a taxi from Medlow Bath to the Mt Hay Road. After several refusals, I found a cabbie who would take me, provided that I paid for his vehicle to be washed (in addition to my fare). However, after about three kilometres on the dirt road, he stopped the taxi and said "Sorry, that's as far as I'm prepared to go". Luckily, I had plenty of time and was happy to walk the rest of the way.

So, it might be easier for you to start from Evans Lookout instead of from the Mt Hay Rd.

I think the Grose Valley is a great place to go with adventurous children, but most children love a campfire and you're not supposed to have one there. If you want campfires, you could start from Dunphys Camping Area at the end of the Megalong Road and camp on the Coxs River (or, if there has been recent rain, collect water at Mobbs Soak for a high camp at Splendour Rock). Another option is to start at Mountain Lagoon and take the T3 track down to the Colo River where there is good camping (on sand) and lots for kids to do. Another good one is from Bell to Wollangambe Crater and return. Transport is straightforward for these since the walk ends back at the car.

[Xplora]

Hi Marron,
Thanks for the info. We are still hoping to get a couple of nights in the Grose, though we might switch to a circuit as both you and Keith have suggested. I liked the idea of the through route, but I see the logistics being difficult.
In regards to Deep Pass, I think we may go for 2 or 3 nights. Thanks for the info about the T-slot. It looks fantastic. Sadly though I see on the NPWS website that Deep Pass Canyon is closed due to rockfall hazard. As an alternative, it looks like a good day out to walk from Deep Pass to River Caves canyon and back. Good idea?
Thanks again for the input,
It is tricky organising and working things out from afar. It seems there is lots of closures at the minute and 4wd required for a lot of things.

Try to find some recent information about the road to Deep Pass. We were on the plateau in July doing some canyons and most of the roads were in good order but we didn't go to Deep Pass. Have some vague memory of it being a bit tricky for a 2wd but that might only be when wet. Clearance is the biggest issue. Definitely do the Dry Canyon on the way to the Glow Worm tunnel. Out of the tunnel you can turn left and go past the seats. Follow the creek and jump it. Follow the creek line upstream and it will bring you out adjacent to the track into the tunnel but on the carpark side. Going right from the tunnel and follow the cliff line to the end and there is a nice lookout. You can also walk down to the Wolgan valley. It is only a moderate grade.

River Caves is great. Might be a long day to walk it from Deep Pass but could be doable. Mind all the leeches. We often camp just off the GW tunnel road near the Rocky turnoff. We call it Barcoo swamp but there is no water. Open area with a few areas to camp. Just have to pick the right line going in. A mate did it with a 2wd van that gets bogged easily and had no problem. Wombeyan caves is also a great spot and potential for a couple of nights on your way up. If school holidays you might have to book in advance. The caves are good but there is also a canyon walk. Not sure how wet it will be this time of year. I would not recommend you use the Mittagong Road. In and out via Goulburn or out via Oberon and onto Lithgow. They were doing roadwork from Lithgow to Newnes plateau and the road has been closed weekdays. Access to the plateau near the Zig Zag railway. You could also access the Grose from the Bells Line of Road side but it would not be a loop. I think it is an easier walk out though. Camping at Mt. Wilson is also good but the canyons would be very wet and not what you are after. These are just suggestions to avoid Sydney and the Great Western Hwy. A lot less traffic and people. The southern side views of the Grose are probably the better ones but on the northern side you still have some great scenery but not the tourist traps. Mt. Banks is a nice walk.

[marron]

Hi Marron,
Thanks for the info. We are still hoping to get a couple of nights in the Grose, though we might switch to a circuit as both you and Keith have suggested. I liked the idea of the through route, but I see the logistics being difficult.
In regards to Deep Pass, I think we may go for 2 or 3 nights. Thanks for the info about the T-slot. It looks fantastic. Sadly though I see on the NPWS website that Deep Pass Canyon is closed due to rockfall hazard. As an alternative, it looks like a good day out to walk from Deep Pass to River Caves canyon and back. Good idea?
Thanks again for the input,
It is tricky organising and working things out from afar. It seems there is lots of closures at the minute and 4wd required for a lot of things.

I think river caves is doable as a day walk, but if you're sticking to the firetrails might be a bit boring for the kiddos? (mine always hated those parts haha). Last time I was out there some people did go along the creek a bit and then and up and over up that way from deep pass campground and I think went to river caves but I don't know how hard going that way is or where the access routes out of creek etc might be - plus they stayed over there for a night before coming back - so couldn't advise on how doable it really is especially as a daywalk. On that note though, road seemed in okay nick (this was a few months back). Towards the ends of the trails they get narrow and a bit more rutted but we made it okay and worse case you'll get pretty close and then just walk the rest.

Just on the Grose if you really wanted to do a through route, it's not the worst walk from Mt Vic out to Mt Vic Falls track head, about 7k from Mt Vic station. So you could park in Blackheath up towards Evans Lookout, get a Taxi to Mt Vic Falls Rd as far as they'd take you, or a train to Mt Vic station, then walk out to the Falls and then down to Burra Korrain. Then down to Acacia for day 2 and out at Evans Lookout for Day 3.

[juz]

Hi Ribuck, Xplora and Marron,
Thanks so much for all that information. I haven't had a chance to digest it all yet. I will sit down tomorrow and work through it. Thanks for taking the time to share such valuable knowledge. It is a fantastic help,

[Xplora]

I am thinking the whole deep pass area might be closed. Deep pass canyon is not the wet bit up the creek but the note stated it was only closed for another week anyway. The closed part would include the slot.

[johnrs]

Hi Juz
Have a look a Joes canyon at Mt Wilson.
Maybe continue down into Du Faurs ,
short but best with a lilo and cheap wetsuits.
Here is a blog and map https://www.walkmyworld.com/posts/joes-canyon-loop
John

[juz]

Thanks all for the fantastic input. Enough ideas to make a month long holiday! Certainly good fodder for future trips.
Ribuck, shame the Taxi service no longer offers dirt road service. Thanks for your great overnight walk suggestions. They all look so good. Though I think in this case we will stick with the Grose. We are still working out a loop, or near loop for the Grose, but will get there for a couple of nights. Something similar to the good suggestions from Keith or Marron.
We than have a house in Blackheath for a while and will do a few things like scenic world. We'll do a couple of day walks including the Grand Canyon walk if we miss it on our Grose walk, and have a rest day to I think.
John, your suggestion of Joe's canyon looks fantastic. We might do this as a day trip from Blackheath. Do you think if we were to do the loop as described we would manage the cold ok mid October if we are all wearing wetsuits? Don't want to put the kids off for life as per Keith advise?
In terms of after that, due to closures and road conditions, and to minimise driving we might head out to Dry Canyon, and camp for 2 nights in the clearing a hundred or so meters from the road up the dry canyon track (marked on OSM). The next day we might head to the glow worm tunnel and wolgan valley circuit, and then on our way out, we'll try to get to River Caves. If deep pass canyon opens up again we could try that instead of river caves.
We'll then head south to Wombeyan for a couple of nights on the way home, do a tour of some caves and check out Mares Forest Creek Canyon.
Xplora, thanks for all the info, especially in regards to roads. It is good to know where not to go!
Thanks again everyone, it will be a very good trip I think.

[johnrs]

Hi Juz,
Probably not really a good idea to do a wet canyon even with wetsuited kids in October!
River caves and dry canyon should be fine.
What about the tourist track through the Grand Canyon or maybe Hat Hill canyon?
John

[keithj]

Probably not really a good idea to do a wet canyon even with wetsuited kids in October!
River caves and dry canyon should be fine.
What about the tourist track through the Grand Canyon or maybe Hat Hill canyon?

Walking from the exit track up GC or (maybe) HHC or even better Dalpura would be a good adventure for kids - no wetsuit required. Then you have the option to turn around or swim.

[Xplora]

Hi Juz,
Probably not really a good idea to do a wet canyon even with wetsuited kids in October!
River caves and dry canyon should be fine.
What about the tourist track through the Grand Canyon or maybe Hat Hill canyon?
John

I would echo this sentiment. Smaller bodies don't cope with sustained cold that well. I also have some doubt about how well wetsuits do when you are in an out out water. The idea of a wetsuit is to retain water and your body heats it up but doing canyons you are in and out of the water so the wetsuit drains the warm water and fills up again with cold water which then requires your body to heat up. That sucks the life out of you literally if it is done many times. Others might have a different view but this is just my observation after doing many canyons in winter and summer. We do try to keep the winter canyons drier but that has not always worked out.

[juz]

Thanks John and Xplora and Keith for the feedback and info. I know if the kids get cold it is more than no good. Just having not been to blue mountains before I am unfamiliar with how cold the canyons are, so great to get your good advice on this. It will save some drama no doubt - perhaps it is possible to learn from others mistakes!
My old wild guide by David Noble says avoid hat hill canyon due to polluted water, but I gather from a look around the internet that sewage is no longer discharged here?
We will be sure to do the Grand Canyon walking track, and maybe peak in from the bottom a little way. I'll check out HHC and Dalpura further, thought these look good from and initial search. They would be good days out from Blackheath for us.
Thanks again,

[marron]

Hat hill is fine.
I personally still avoid drinking from it though all the same.

[Xplora]

Thanks John and Xplora and Keith for the feedback and info. I know if the kids get cold it is more than no good. Just having not been to blue mountains before I am unfamiliar with how cold the canyons are, so great to get your good advice on this. It will save some drama no doubt - perhaps it is possible to learn from others mistakes!
My old wild guide by David Noble says avoid hat hill canyon due to polluted water, but I gather from a look around the internet that sewage is no longer discharged here?
We will be sure to do the Grand Canyon walking track, and maybe peak in from the bottom a little way. I'll check out HHC and Dalpura further, thought these look good from and initial search. They would be good days out from Blackheath for us.
Thanks again,

BM sewerage used to go into the Grose also. My brother and his mates all got the runs when they did it over 40 years ago. No issues now but BM water is still full of giarda and crypto. Anything near settlement is risky also. I remember checking the temperature of Empress canyon water and it was about 10 degrees in May. You have a pretty good plan developing. You can peak up the Grand Canyon canyon part pretty easy. I scrambled straight over a Tiger snake at the start once. It was so cold it didn't move. Must have fallen in. A short walk on the southern side of the Hwy at Blackheath will take you out to the climbing walls. Also Mt. Piddington not far away. I think you will have your hands full sorting out just which walks you will do.

Tourist information might be helpful but it may tend to point you to those easy tourist access places. The NPWS information might be better if you explain your experience and preference.

[juz]

Thanks again for some more good fodder.
It is nice to know that the water quality has improved over the years. We will be sure to treat any water consumed whilst we are out and about. Is the water clear enough generally for a UV light based steriliser to work? We have a pump and a UV light - the light is infinitely more convenient.
Xplora, we had a similar experience with a tiger snake in the grampians - playing at the base of some mini falls near Buandik and noticed a snake stuck in the falling water - we evacuated and watched it struggle and free it self to only just managing to exit the pool, and recovering for a long time after it got itself out.
Indeed we have so many great ideas. I'll put some info and maps together in the next few days, then we'll see how the weather goes and what we feel up to when we get up there.
This has been fantastic to benefit from everyones input - so a big thank you to every one.

[Xplora]

Is the water clear enough generally for a UV light based steriliser to work? We have a pump and a UV light - the light is infinitely more convenient.

Mostly clear except after heavy rain. You should be able to carry what you need anyway but a UV is a good backup.

[juz]

Thanks Xplora, I was mostly thinking of water when camping along the Grose on our overnighter. Good to know the UV is likely to be sufficient. Thanks!

[marron]

The Grose also has old mines near the headwaters, so it's best to avoid really too, if you can help it, some... interesting... data has come out of there over the years.
So your best bet is side creeks - but avoid Hat Hill (there's another just west of it, Crayfish, which is a better one).
At Acacia Flat there is a creek just south of the campsite, Orangutan, which is a good one.

[tom_brennan]

Lots of useful advice.

On the canyon front, the water is generally still fairly cold in October, so be cautious. Aim for things less than waist deep, and if the water is deeper (short sections), strip off top layers and put them back on after wading/swimming. Specific notes:
[*] Hat Hill - lots of wades, mostly short wades to waist deep (adults!) but some to chest deep. Sort of doable in Oct, but still on the chilly side. Probably better left for warmer weather. I'd suggest neoprene socks or double socks at minimum.
[*] Dalpura - generally doable in Oct, but some short wading to waist deep.
[*] Deep Pass - there was a massive rockfall earlier in the year, which is why it is still closed. However, you can still camp there and explore the T-slot. The canyon is not likely to open in a hurry.
[*] River Caves - normally wades to knee deep, but there was a short waist deep section when we were there in Jan. Generally fine to do in Oct. The road to Deep Pass/River Caves used to be crap, but they did a lot of work late last year and it was in great (easy 2WD) condition via Dinner Gully back in Jan. Note that Dinner Gully was not the usual route as it was dodgy even for 4WD for many years. Can also be done from Deep Pass and not on fire trail - there is a rough track but route is not 100% obvious.
[*] Grand Canyon - the loop walk is great. On the walk you can detour into the bottom of the canyon for several hundred metres (not marked, but not hard to follow) - which is dry, and well worthwhile in any weather. After that you need to swim ~30m if you want to go further. I'd wait til warmer weather if you want to do that latter bit, but the other bits are good.
[*] Dry Canyon - always a good one - combine with Glowworm Tunnel canyon (next to the Glowworm Tunnel, lots of people miss it). The walk in campsite nearby used to be nice (but I haven't been there for quite a few years!).
[*] Rocky Creek - wait till Dec at least, with wetsuits. Too cold otherwise
[*] Joes Canyon - probably not worth it til warmer weather. It's a fair walk for not much, unless you're going into Du Faurs, which it's too cold for now. Wait til Dec
[*] Mares Forest Creek Canyon - nice, but too cold at the moment. Lots of swimming. Check the road closures - the Mittagong side is still closed I think (https://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/vi ... cal-alerts)

On the drinking water front, I generally drink without treatment, but am selective about where
[*] Grose - avoid if at all possible. Mines (heavy metals) in the headwaters and runoff from urban areas in Govetts Creek. Get water from Orangutan Gully (best) or Crayfish Creek.
[*] Hat Hill - avoid, it's much better than before (ie not sewage) but still runs off Blackheath

On the Grose walk:
[*] Mt Vic to Perrys (Blackheath) is fine as an option - there's a 6km walk from the station at the Mt Vic end and 6km at the Blackheath end, but not everyone has to do that. While both ends are on dirt, you'd be likely able to get a taxi to or from either - it's good quality dirt, and I know some of the taxi companies up in the mountains do much worse roads than those!!

[marron]

It's sealed all the way to Perrys now.

[tom_brennan]

It's sealed all the way to Perrys now.

Shows how long it's been since I've been out to Perrys!!

[juz]

Hi All,

Firstly, I would like to thank all of you who shared so much great knowledge with me in thus thread. To keithj, marron, ribuck, xplora, johnrs and tom_brennan your input helped us all have a marvelous first trip to the Blue Mountains. The time and energy you invested was fantastic.

We are back now, and had an amazing time. I thought I would share, in brief, what we did, and how it went, for anyone else looking in the future. For the record we were 2 adults, a 5yo and a 7yo, in a 2wd corolla.

We did a 3 day/2 night walk along the Grose. We drove to and started at the Victoria Falls Rd carpark.
Day 1: Vic Falls carpark to Burra Korrain Flats
Day 2: Burra Korrain Flats to Acacia Flat
Day 3: Acacia Flat, Horse track, Evans LO, Govetts Leap LO to holiday house in Blackheath.

This was a fantastic route, with great campsites. It was a lot of fun, and on day 1 and 2, you could spend all the time in the world exploring/swimming/playing along the creeks and river. Day 3 was a good day too, although it was at the limit of our ability. We had thought we would walk around the cliffs further and then into town along the Popes Glen Track, but we were tired enough after the horse track climb. The track was in very good condition.

On arrival in Blackheath, a taxi came quickly and took me back to our car at the end of Victoria Falls Rd. The road was in good condition, so the taxi driver took me to the end relatively happily I think. The fare was around $38.

We then did some day activities out of Blackheath. We had planned to camp a couple of nights to in Wollemi NP, but we had a bit of rain forecast, so extended the stay in the holiday home instead. We had planned to camp just up the track towards the Dry Canyon. There is two campsites shown on OSM’s. The first is now overgrown, however, the second (~400m from road) would be a fantastic spot to camp, if allowed.

Dalpura Canyon: this was a great outing for us. The kids had a ball doing the one abseil. It is a great route and the moment where you drop down into the canyon/cave at the base of the abseil is heaps of fun. The kids wetsuited it up, and we carried spare clothes. We all stayed warm enough and enjoyed this exploration.

Grand Canyon Walk: an amazing walk. We did post 20mm of rain in the drizzle, and it was a great time to do it. We stuck our heads up the bottom of the canyon, until the swim, but that was enough on the day. Very worthwhile.

Dry Canyon: A great easy walk. The feeling of being so deep in the canyon was amazing. We all enjoyed this.

Glow Worm Tunnel & Bells Grotto: Perhaps one of the kids favourites. The glow worm tunnel was amazing. We went post school holidays, and had the tunnel to ourselves. This allowed us to walk slowly through without torches, just trailing a hand on the rail. It was very cool. Returning through Bells Grotto added a little to it. The road out, even after a few days of proper rain was in excellent condition, and was an easy drive in the ‘rola.

Scenic World: A pretty different experience to the rest, but a lot of fun still. Especially the glass floor and the railway. We had grand stand seats to a lyre birds mating ritual, that was very nearly a success. The kids really enjoyed Scenic World.

We added in a couple of extra lazy days due to the rain, so didn’t make it Deep Pass or River Caves.

Wombeyan Caves: We had a great time checking out the Fig Tree Cave and Wollondilly Cave. These are amazing caves, and the tour was great. The kids enjoyed it all too. We also walked down to the Mares Forest Creek limestone gorge and Tinted Cave. We didn’t bring wetsuits down to the creek, but we still enjoyed swimming/wading/rock hoping our way up stream for a few hundred metres, before cold turned us back.

Water: All the water we came across was very clear. Amazingly so considering we come from central vic, where there is plenty of turbid water/creeks. The UV treatment was suitable in these conditions.

Anyway, to wrap it up. I cannot believe we haven't been to the Blue Mountains before. It was a great place for our family holiday, and we all got a lot out of it. Thanks again everyone for the splendid input.

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[ribuck]

I'm glad it worked out so well, juz, no doubt largely due to your enthusiasm and drive putting everything together.

[marron]

What a great trip - glad you had a good time! And yep, pretty special place!

[tom_brennan]

Sounds like everything worked out pretty well. You'll have to come back when the weather is a bit warmer and do some of other canyons. Rocky Creek/Twister, Wollangambe, Clatterteeth (Du Faur) and Hat Hill are all worthwhile. Usually December to March is good.