Hyponatraemia

[whiskeylover]

Can I just remind people that there is a wealth of medical knowledge and experience on this forum; and express my support for the learned opinions of liamy77 and lizzy, as I think this thread is getting a bit silly with other carry on when the original problem posed was to do with making sure we have enough electrolyte intake with fluids, taking into consideration the amount of activity we are doing and the environmental factors. Please try to be helpful to other walkers, and express thoughts that are educated and/or useful for the better walking experience of those who might access this forum.

Addit: sorry, not aimed at anyone in particular, just intended as a friendly reminder.

[tasadam]

Can I just remind people that there is a wealth of medical knowledge and experience on this forum; and express my support for the learned opinions of liamy77 and lizzy, as I think this thread is getting a bit silly with other carry on when the original problem posed was to do with making sure we have enough electrolyte intake with fluids, taking into consideration the amount of activity we are doing and the environmental factors. Please try to be helpful to other walkers, and express thoughts that are educated and/or useful for the better walking experience of those who might access this forum.

Addit: sorry, not aimed at anyone in particular, just intended as a friendly reminder.

A valid point.
A number of off topic or irrelevant posts have been removed.

[Liamy77]

If you walk for 8 - 10 hours then 10 L / day might only be 1L/Hour... not that much to drink in a tropical environment walking... and with heat and evaporation you might not notive how much you sweat... - just take a isotonic sports drink powder with you and mix it weak in you hydration bladder... watch for cramps, dry lips, and as long as you pee at least 30+ mLs /Hour you have enough goin through your kidneys..... roughly. Too much salt intake will mess you up too though.

8 to 10 hours walk with overnight or longer pack for most would be extremely knackering in any conditions never mind the fluid /salt intake dont you think ?? ,most probably for me and I stroll on a regular basis.
However youth will out and good luck to those who take on this challenge and please post regarding your 8 to 10 hour walk in temperatures above 35 % as I am in Tassie and it is a once every blue Moon occurence
corvus

Just sayin it is theoretically possible.... buggered if i wanna give it a go if i can help it!

[north-north-west]

... even in my spotty youth I dont think I could have done an 8 to 10 hour walk in conditions that required 10 lt of fluid intake...

Couple of times in the West MacDonnells I've drunk 10 litres in 10 - 12 hours walking. Supplemented with Berocca. Ditto at Nitmiluk and once over in Wozzieland.

[corvus]

... even in my spotty youth I dont think I could have done an 8 to 10 hour walk in conditions that required 10 lt of fluid intake...

Couple of times in the West MacDonnells I've drunk 10 litres in 10 - 12 hours walking. Supplemented with Berocca. Ditto at Nitmiluk and once over in Wozzieland.

G'day n-n-w
Mate you are a machine and I dips my lid to you, now I know why you walk alone as very few of us could do what you have done especially this old fart
corvus

[north-north-west]

Nah, I'm just pig-headed and have too much nervous energy. When I'm travelling I like to be either walking or driving or boating or diving or something Not very good at sitting around not doing anything.
And in summer it's easy to do 12 - 14 hour days. Or more.

[tas-man]

Interesting thread - brought back memories of my two years in Papua New Guinea in the late 1970's where I recall that it took about six weeks for my body to adjust to the climate. I remember that in the first few weeks, the salt encrustation from dried sweat on my arms was always visible, and obviously salty if sampled! I was doing a bit of hard physical work later on as well as some extended bushwalking, and my body conditioned to sweating virtually no salts after I had adjusted to the climate. Never had any problems with hydration on the walks and never even thought about it, just drank when thirsty. So the main issue with people travelling to PNG to walk Kokoda is that their bodies will excrete salts with their sweat and will certainly need replacing under Kokoda conditions. The other option is to spend some time acclimatising your body in a different environment, just like Himalayan climbing for altitude.

[Tony]

Some articles on over hydration deaths on the Kokoda Track have appeared in some news papers this week.

Tony

[Lizzy]

oh NO!!!! Not this thread again....

[wayno]

All very interesting, but with all these experts giving us their opinion, I haven't read one thing about how to assess hydration, which after all, is the litmus test of 'drinking enough' to stay hydrated without over doing it.

People working on outback mine sites are given a colour card during training to help them assess their hydration by the colour of their piddle. Its a simple test, and the 'user' can easily regulate and learn about their own body's requirements. Anything clear to light straw coloured is fine. If the pee goes darker, drink more. If that's a good enough test for them, its probably good enough for us.

Hi Michael,

That's a very simple and effective tool that can be used by anyone and is even used by elite level athletes (in addition to weighing themselves, before and after exercise) to determine whether they are adequately hydrated. (The only challenge with this method is when the athlete also happens to have a vision impairment but, for every problem, there's always a solution - just get someone else to check!).

Cheers,

JB

you shouldnt be looking to regain all your lost weight after exercise from water alone. burning glycogen results in loosing water that is stored with the glycogen
similarly. fat cells are 80% water. for every gram of fat you burn you loose four times the amount of water. it's generally used by the metabolism while the body is exercising, it can actually be having up to half a litre of water an hour freed up from burnng energy. so its normal to drop your weight after exercise even after being fully hudrated...

[ollster]

12 hrs at 40degrees on the Eastern Arthurs on NYE.
Day before was a 10 hr day at 30+

Yar, and we were along the top of the Sth Range on both those days. There was no where to hide. I remember getting to the high part of the track near Pindar's and everyone dropping packs and scurrying into the shadows to get out of the blistering sun. Considering how many times I refilled my water bladder I estimate 9+ litres of water on both days. It eventually caught up with me after we came down off PB... woke up feeling like I'd had 3 bottles of red. 1 packet of Hydralite and a big drink for breakfast and I was good to go again.

[wayno]

do you ever try walking at night instead?

[Onestepmore]

When I used to help out with Endurance Riding horses the best way to assess hydration was weighing them as they came in after each leg, and after rehydration with electrolytes in water. The horses were always given free choice - plain, and electrolytes. As has been mentioned above, and studies have shown, that people will nearly always drink the right amount if they stop when they don't feel they are thirsty any more. Professor Ruben Rose - an eminent equine exercise physiologist always used to say 'the kidney is smarter than we are'
i spent a summer working as a Jillaroo in southern Qld. We were always told to have little packets of salt, and to dip our fingers in this at smoko time as well as not drink too much when we reached a water point when out mustering. Crude, but a way to ensure adeqate salts way before there were sports drinks etc. A friend of a friend of mine had a child die due to overhydation whilst on a drip treating coronavirus diarrhoea (quite common in children). Overhydration caused hyponatraemia, osmosis causes fluids shifts to occur - cerebral oedema, which causes the cerebrum (hindbrain) to herniate through the tentorium cerebelli or the foramen magnum (holes at the back and the base of the skull). Instadeath.

[wayno]

seems like the over riding message that gets out to the general population regarding water consumption is the one of the danger of dehydration.
but few people are aware of the opposite danger of too much water consumption....
obviously the fear of dehydration preys on enough peoples minds to make enough of them over drink.
the information that isnt getting out there is knowing how much to drink and when...
certainly in a lot of sports you see people consuming water regularly and thres advertising pushing various fluids... but a lot of sports are done at greater intensity than walking and for far less time than bush walkers go for. they usually arent exercising long enough to drink to the point of hyponatremia. once they stop exercising their fluid consumption drops to a reasonable level. if its summer then they'll get in the shade or inside out of the sun usually and the problem of salt loss in sweat diminishes.

its similar with hypothermia, as a kid, various clubs drilled it into you the dangers of hypothermia.... i did a winter trip and my biggest danger was heat exhaustion, i was wearing so many clothes... and i still find myself over dressing at times....
one end of the extreme gets hammered in the message that gets out rather than a message of how to manage a situation.... ie manage your water consumption appropriately for the situation, manage your insulation appropriatley for the situation....
problem is our bodies arent good at storing water. we work best drinking , a little water often when exercising. drink too much too soon and you'll pee it out along with sodium and all the other minerals you need....